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Thread: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

  1. #31
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post

    How you managed to look at that page and deduct anything you've said is simply beyond me.

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    24h rule - UB
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; February 20, 2013 at 03:49 PM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Bowing to the ground? I think that's a general body movement in the manga world. Tobirama, while he was about to begin talking about the Uchiha also did the same. It didn't really have anything to do with Hashirama's attack.
    Hashirama's statement meant he didn't want to make it a fight to death, and cut it beforehand, but Madara disagreed and they needed to move with all they have.

    While I believe Hashirama was the superior Shinobi, the body language or the respective statement didn't really back up my reasoning in that sense.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    While trying to attack my opinion, you should write carefully yours as well.
    My opinion is reflected by the mangas speech bubbles, there's no need to for me to copy and rephrase what was already written by Kishimoto himself... and that is Madara and Hashirama being more or less on equal footing until Hashirama somehow managed to win their final clash, which might have even led to his own demise as well.

    Quote Quote:
    A fight to the death is one that stops only after one of the opponents is dead or both are dead.
    No.

    A fight to the death is a fight where the combatants jump at each other with the intention to kill. If they fail to accomplish the kill and it ends in a stalemate, with both of them being unable to continue fighting or one of them retreating to preserve his own life then it was still a death battle.

    Quote Quote:
    Spoiler show


    Spoiler show


    As you can see, Madara is spitting the usual stupidity that comes from the elder son's side as Sasuke and Neiji to Naruto. Here, he is thinking he is the only one smart enough to reach a new level. The first images suggest also that Madara was weaker before the last meeting, and he think he is now stronger. In the last image, you can see Hashirama's statement. It says clearly that Hshirama always thought that he could kill Madara at any time.
    Nice selective reading.

    Thats Madaras conclusion, and one panel later it gets refuted by Hashirama himself saying "thats not what I meant".

    Besides: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-47297-1...apter-483.html

    Similar words spoken, and we all know how that ended... Kakashi panting from barely being able to defend against an exhausted, nearly blind Sasuke.

    Quote Quote:
    There is one thing you need to understand here. HAshirama's only attack led to Madara bowing towards the ground, and this prove that HAshimara's statement was accurate.
    Oh I'm sorry, I totally forgot about your ability to foresee the future.
    Spoiler show
    Last edited by LnDRash; February 20, 2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  5. #34
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    It's called blindness towards a character one likes/against a character one hates. The manga could state that Madara was stronger, but he'll still refute it and make up a reason why. Many fans of the series are like this, whether Minato fan, Itachi fan, or whatever fan.


    Anyway, if MangaStream's version was right, then before their final fight they did fight seriously, but not serious enough to kill each other. Either that or Madara chose not to employ any horrible method, as he told Hashirama he changed since hte last time they fought.

  6. #35
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It's called blindness towards a character one likes/against a character one hates. The manga could state that Madara was stronger, but he'll still refute it and make up a reason why. Many fans of the series are like this, whether Minato fan, Itachi fan, or whatever fan.


    Anyway, if MangaStream's version was right, then before their final fight they did fight seriously, but not serious enough to kill each other. Either that or Madara chose not to employ any horrible method, as he told Hashirama he changed since hte last time they fought.
    Yeah the change is that now he have a biju by his side so more power, now he too can reach the other side like the reference to the flashback/rock throw. Anyway hashirama is a beast, madara plus kuuybi couldn't even beat him, and for who ever said that mito is going to show up to help with this battle after this chapter seriously is overestimating madara. We show from the kuuybi flashback hashirama waas taking to him after the battle was over so no mito didn't seal kuuybi during the battle to help hashirama at all. What kushina said can be interpret in two different way.

  7. #36
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    My opinion is reflected by the mangas speech bubbles, there's no need to for me to copy and rephrase what was already written by Kishimoto himself... and that is Madara and Hashirama being more or less on equal footing until Hashirama somehow managed to win their final clash, which might have even led to his own demise as well.


    No.

    A fight to the death is a fight where the combatants jump at each other with the intention to kill. If they fail to accomplish the kill and it ends in a stalemate, with both of them being unable to continue fighting or one of them retreating to preserve his own life then it was still a death battle.
    I think you are redefining the expression here. The reason Madara talking about a fight to the death is that he always went out with the intent to kill. However, he never attained his goal because Hashimara who was the victor never fought to the death as Madara wanted. You cannot simply redefine an expression by a misunderstanding of the two side of the fight. In all the literature, a fight to the death means it will stop when one person or both die. Madara survived only because Hashimara never fought to the death.



    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Nice selective reading.

    Thats Madaras conclusion, and one panel later it gets refuted by Hashirama himself saying "thats not what I meant".

    Besides: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-47297-1...apter-483.html

    Similar words spoken, and we all know how that ended... Kakashi panting from barely being able to defend against an exhausted, nearly blind Sasuke.
    Actually, this fight was fought to the end. Therefore, you cannot draw any conclusion. Sasuke lost his power as well during the fight. You need to stick to the current discussion. The conclusion of the current fight is clear with Madara's loss. Actually, this panel is another view of the same image where there is a sword in Madara's chest.


    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Oh I'm sorry, I totally forgot about your ability to foresee the future.
    [spoiler]If you are so sure that Thousand-Hands Wood Mecha vs. Kyuubi Susanoo clash will be the conclusion of the fight then you can surely explain why we've already seen Madara being impaled by a sword, or why it has been implied that Mito Uzumaki helped Hashirama to seal the Kyuubi.

    Once again its beyond me how you can jump to such a conclusion when you don't even know if the fight will continue after that childhood flashback or not.
    Look closedly at this image. You will see the way Madara is bent towards the ground. It suggest that he is being held by that sword.

    Spoiler show


    It is clear that something spiky entered his body and you can see the effect on his back. This is another view of the sword you are talking about. It is consistent with the past. Where do you think Kyuubi was at this point? Where is PS? They are all gone ( I mean not at Madara's service anymore).

    Again, I know we can make mistake, but I also know I read carefully, and I am not in general impressed by giant Jutsu or nonsense speech from character. Clearly, It is logical to see that Hashimara can make Madara run at anytime. With his massive power, he only need to use targeted earth Jutsu in combination with Mokuton to disable or bury Kyuubi+PS. If the shinobi in the war could lock Jubi with earth, I wonder what scale HAshi can produce. Besides, you need to see how Madara kept talking about Hashirama and using his jutsu. This fight is over. Now, Sasuke is going to see the unfolding of the history.

  8. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    The conclusion of the current fight is clear with Madara's loss. Actually, this panel is another view of the same image where there is a sword in Madara's chest.

    Look closedly at this image. You will see the way Madara is bent towards the ground. It suggest that he is being held by that sword.

    Spoiler show
    Seriously..? W.T.F ??
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    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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  10. #38
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Seriously..? W.T.F ??
    Spoiler show
    I think he meant the picture on
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-404-13/...apter-399.html
    where a shadow of madara is on his knee and what look like a sword stabbing him.
    He probably use the wrong picture or something.

  11. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    ^I'm well aware of that panel. That is what I was referring to when I said...
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    However, I don't believe so6pww posted the wrong panel. Instead I'm under the assumption, ridiculous as it may be, he actually believes...
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    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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  13. #40
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by huynhlan View Post
    Yeah the change is that now he have a biju by his side so more power, now he too can reach the other side like the reference to the flashback/rock throw. Anyway hashirama is a beast, madara plus kuuybi couldn't even beat him, and for who ever said that mito is going to show up to help with this battle after this chapter seriously is overestimating madara. We show from the kuuybi flashback hashirama waas taking to him after the battle was over so no mito didn't seal kuuybi during the battle to help hashirama at all. What kushina said can be interpret in two different way.
    Or, the change could be that Madara was hellbent on revenge and was willin to get it in any way possible, whereas back then he was fighting for his clan, and neither man wanted to kill each other due to bonds and fighting prowess. And the manga itself said or implied Mito sealed the Kyuubi in her durin the battle.

    But Madara and Hashirama tied or were unable to kill each other before their final fight, so yeah, Madara could have been as strong as Hashirama.

  14. #41
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Or, the change could be that Madara was hellbent on revenge and was willin to get it in any way possible, whereas back then he was fighting for his clan, and neither man wanted to kill each other due to bonds and fighting prowess. And the manga itself said or implied Mito sealed the Kyuubi in her durin the battle.

    But Madara and Hashirama tied or were unable to kill each other before their final fight, so yeah, Madara could have been as strong as Hashirama.
    Reveng for what? That everyone disagree with his obey uchiha or died method which he force on the other village? The manga never really implied mito being there, like I said there could be two interpretation to what kushina said, for once the fact that she said after the hashirama took control of the kuuybi hinted after the battle more than anything, you are basing your interpretation in the aiding her husband's part, but you are forgetting we don't know what led to hashirama's death now do we, and the aid could be realated to it, also if you think about it straight, it make no sense for her to be there, it make more sense for tobimaru to be there than her, cause I doubt she is stronger than him, and I seriously doubt hashirama would bring his wife to the battle when we saw he clearly have the advantage.

    Also you said Madara could have been as strong as Hashirama and I disagree with this because that logic wouldn't work cause if madara= hashirama before the battle then I am pretty sure that madara+kuuybi should have allow madara to win the the battle, but it's didn't happen now did it. My guess are that most of their battle were interrupted like one side finish their mission first like what happen with minato that why madara get to live so long before VOTE.

  15. #42
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Why are you of the opinion that Madara didn't have the Kyuubi last time they fought? Madara states that the Mokuryu was used to subdue Kurama in their past fights. And in this fight, we see Madara protecting Kurama from the Mokuryu so that it can't absorb it's chakra. The only way he'd learn to do this is if they already fought once and Hashirama subdued Kurama, leaving Madara to rely on his Perfect Susanoo form alone.

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  17. #43
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Why are you of the opinion that Madara didn't have the Kyuubi last time they fought? Madara states that the Mokuryu was used to subdue Kurama in their past fights. And in this fight, we see Madara protecting Kurama from the Mokuryu so that it can't absorb it's chakra. The only way he'd learn to do this is if they already fought once and Hashirama subdued Kurama, leaving Madara to rely on his Perfect Susanoo form alone.
    Last time they fought? dude they only fought once where the kuuybi was in it, or what you are telling me hashirama subdue kurama yet somehow he escape and then madara get to him again and use him in the battle at VOTE again? The battle have yet to end , the wood dragon will probably come up again once the susanoo armor came off that's it or kishi decided to change his story again like this chapter, hashirama and madara were suppose to have first met each other later in their life not when they were little kid.

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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Where was this ever stated? It's been stated that Madara had EMS every time he and Hashirama fought. And we see a mangascan of Madara taking control of Kurama for the first time. And he has his EMS in that scan. Subdued and trapped isn't the same thing. Madara used Kurama against Hashirama, and Hashirama simply weakened him by absorbing his chakra with the Mokuryu. Afterward, because Kurama was summoned by Madara, Madara de-summoned him back to where he keeps him hidden. Makes perfect sense.

    You have to remember, Madara and Hashirama built Konoha together. And during that point, Konoha kept Kurama and the other villages received the other Bijuu. Kurama was still around, without being inside of Mito while she's a jinchuuriki, before Hashirama and Madara had their "last" fight.
    Last edited by ninjabot; February 20, 2013 at 10:58 PM.

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  20. #45
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    Re: Rivalry between Hashimara and Madara - Let Discuss Fair and Square!

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Where was this ever stated? It's been stated that Madara had EMS every time he and Hashirama fought. And we see a mangascan of Madara taking control of Kurama for the first time. And he has his EMS in that scan. Subdued and trapped isn't the same thing. Madara used Kurama against Hashirama, and Hashirama simply weakened him by absorbing his chakra with the Mokuryu. Afterward, because Kurama was summoned by Madara, Madara de-summoned him back to where he keeps him hidden. Makes perfect sense.

    You have to remember, Madara and Hashirama built Konoha together. And during that point, Konoha kept Kurama and the other villages received the other Bijuu. Kurama was still around, without being inside of Mito while she's a jinchuuriki, before Hashirama and Madara had their "last" fight.
    where the hell did konoha kept kurama come from? there was no indication what so ever that konoha was in possesion of the kuuybi before VOTE. Infact the event from ginkaku and kinkaku imply that madara got it after he left the village. You forget he left the village at one point then come back, so it's more logical to think that he got the kuuybi then and with it he believe he can finally surpass hashirama so he come back to challenge him otherwise what was the point of leaving the village for? to travel around to get some fresh air?
    Last edited by huynhlan; February 20, 2013 at 11:16 PM.

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