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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Last edited by JioFreed666; March 22, 2008 at 01:53 AM.
none whatsoever the connection from ishida, i would personally think that chad seems to fit in more since we BARELY saw what his abuelo is about. One thing we do know now is barragan (old man espada) is a pretty wide, shot and thick guy while chad's abuelo is pretty slim and diesed
back on topic, the old espada cant be ishida his father as it would take ages (and hell of alot luck) to transform a human into a hollow (a shinigami researched on this aswell making the chance even slimmer) then turning into an gillian getting the ishida grandfather personality, achieving adjuchas level and after that vasto lodre (we can look at GJ his flashbacks and proof it takes a LONG time to become a vasto lodre) (and to put in another example the standard way of a shinigami to become a captain class and seeing how old rukia and renji are and how long it took renji to become a luitant/captain class shinigami)
The most likely explanation for his appearance is that kubo didnt have an original idea for the face art and used style ishida's grandfather had.
In order to get to that point you have had to be at one time a gilllan but at the same time you can take traits from those you absorb and one personality come out
Oh Gawd please not another Tobi = Obito, Pein = Minato, Pein = Naruto's twin brother, Suigetsu= Sai's brother thread.
Anime artists often reuse character features unless there is more proof its better not to make that assumption yet.
I'm fairly certain it's just a coincidence. Though, it would be a pretty interesting twist if it was true. But yeah, like Richo said: Ishida's grandfather has not been dead NEARLY long enough for him to go from normal hollow to gillian to adjuchas to vasto lorde. It's simply not chronologically possible unless Kubo announces some ridiculous concept about Quincy hollows being more powerful or something.
There's also the fact that he was killed by Mayuri, which could either completely disprove or reinforce this theory. On one hand, Ishida's grandfather was killed by a shinigami, not a Hollow. So why would he end up becoming a Hollow? But, on the other hand, it is possible that Mayuri did some crazy experiment where Ishida's grandfather ended up becoming a hollow. But the odds of that are pretty much nil, and it would be a very far-fetched and ridiculous twist.
But hey, you never know.
Timing this out is a problem to begin with. I think that the “Building a Better Hollow” scenes were a part of Grimmjow’s flashback during the big fight in Hueco Mundo. The process is described, hollow to gillian to adjucha but I don’t recall seeing how long that takes. Inevitably gillian will be formed faster than adjuchas and much faster than the vasterodes. For all we know it might take a day, a month, a thousand years? Rare as the vasterodes are, it probably tends toward the larger timeframes.
Assuming the normal route for becoming a greater hollow, it does seem very much a question of time. However we may have one possible method which isn’t particularly cheating on Kubo’s part.
Let’s say we make a fresh hollow, send it down to Hueco Mundo. Offer it up on a platter to the resident menos, who gobbles it down. Now by the very nature of the menos, our original hollow IS now that menos, being a part of it. We have evidence of menos chowing down on their lessers; back in the day when we first saw Menos Grande in Karakura Town during the Great Hollow Hunt – we saw that menos eating those hollows who got too close. No more than a snack, really. But the precedent that menos will eat lesser hollows was established quite early, even before we got serious and went to Soul Society. Of course, gillains must merge with or cannibalise other gillians to become adjucha – as well as the clause about a dominant individual/ego – and so on up the food chain, but nothing really seems to preclude them snacking along the way. Except that (in terms of their evolution) it is inefficient. So there is a potential short cut which could chop down the developing time significantly.
Now the problematic part – as if the rest wasn’t! – is how exactly the consumed hollow ends up becoming the dominant personality, in a menos which may already have one. (Also how long it takes, going back to the original thought of the timing.) It is possible on a gillian, one may suppose. Harder in a transcendant gillian in which a dominant ego has already become established. In an adjucha or vasterode where the ego is essentially cemented? Supplanting such an individuality/ego seems like an impossible proposition.
Who knows? And there are probably holes in that which I've missed.
i been looking at ichigo's dad and genrusai yamamoto or yama gi. they look very similar what if thats who ichigo's dad is why he would know a lot of things and why is that an old guy like that have not shown a family member or his son or daugther plus the fact that yurichi and bykura are royal family but not his blood relation. the fact that ichigo's dad is very strong and it fits i guess if he is ichigos grandfather
How do they look alike? I don't see any particular resemblance between Isshin and Yamamoto. Isshin being powerful does not mean he has to be related to Yamamoto either. Aizen, Unohana, Shunsui, and Ukitake are other notably powerful shinigami whose families have not yet been revealed, but they also probably have no relation to Isshin.
Also, Yoruichi and Byakuya are members of two of the four highest ranking noble families in SS, but they are not royalty, altough I don't understand why you bring them up. Are you suggesting that you believe Yamamoto is a member of one of the four great noble families?
Please provide some solid reasons why you believe what you think with manga references so that it seems that this is a serious theory you have and not just some spur of the moment thought. I don't want this thread to turn a spam fest for people. (If it does, this thread will be locked.)
Last edited by Tsukisama; July 04, 2008 at 08:41 AM.
every time i look at yamamotos face his nose kinda looks like ishigos dad and his for head and some facial features if you take out the added hair on the side of his eye borrows it looks just like isshin eye, the line that isshin forehead are the same with yamamoto. and for someone who was the leader of the gotei fro so long not to have a son does not make sense and if he did have a son he will be as old as ichigos dad but you are right i still need more evidence to this but its as possible as those one that say he is part of squad 0 or he is the god him self or the missing captain.
and the circumstance that sorounds ichogo aside from him being a half shikigami why was his dad allowed to be in the real world if he was given special consideration and only lost his power 20 years ago.
ps but if you want to close it, its fine but i hope we find out more about isshin
yeah! really similar, both have two arms, two legs and a head, but the similarities end here
Whether or not Yamamoto has children really has no relevance to the story, but why would it be so hard to believe that he might not have children? He always struck me as the solitary, legendary warrior-type. I have a little trouble picturing him ever being intimate and fathering a child. From the way he told Shunsui and Ukitake that he thought of them as though they were his sons, it gave the impression that he had no children of his own IMO, but again his family (or lack of one) never has been an issue in the story and has thus never received adequate attention to allow readers to make good inferences on the matter.
There actually is more validity to the theories about Isshin being in the royal guard or even being king than your theory about him being Yamamoto's long-lost son. We know that Isshin is a captain-level shinigami from at least 20 years ago. He has a captain's haori and an outfit not yet seen on any labeled shinigami (labeled as in we know what position they are in the SS army). Plus, neither Rukia nor Shinji recognize him, physically nor spiritually. Given these things, it makes it plausible for Isshin to be connected to the royal guard (or perhaps even be king), but this theory was not based on something obscure that could be easily explained away (i.e., how manga artists draw some similar features on characters).
I am going to close this thread, but if you feel like you have something else that adds strong support to this theory of yours, feel free to pm me about it (or another moderator listed as a Bleach moderator) and whatever new thing you have will be reviewed and judged whether it is worthy enough to reopen this thread.