[Discussions] Kurogane end with tomoyo?

[shouryuujo]

Is it really obvious? I mean his dad married a miko and now he is protecting one...

[Sush]

I hope there will be no Kuro/Tomo relationship in the end...xD
The -father married miko, so Kuro will marry Tomo- thing is scaring me too...^^"

Because...at this moment it is very difficult for me to figure out wether Fai and Kurogane are "only" very best friends like Winnetou & Old Shatterhand or wether they are a nice romantic pair....

I don´t know...

[ShirubiaLamperouge]

I don't think Kurotomo has anything to do with his father marrying a miko. She basically saved him after his parents were killed, he became a ninja to protect her because he cares about her, not because of some creepy Freudian projection of how he was really in love with his mother.
Personally I think that the only thing stopping them from being together is Amaterasu, who naturally would not be too keen on Tomoyo marrying a mere ninja. But both of them have stated about each other that they do what they want to do and don't let anyone tell them differently. I actually think they're quite similar, and work really well as a couple (except for the fact that Tomoyo is like 2 feet shorter than him. Grow, damn you!).
Kurofai... Just, no. Not all guys in manga who are good friends are in love with each other! Yes, they're really good friends (after all they've been through together, who wouldn't be?), but I don't see any evidence of a romantic relationship at all. Nor do I see any evidence that they would be interested in having a romantic relationship with one another. They're FREINDS.

[Mirien]

First post ever... Hi?

Quote: ShirubiaLamperouge 

Kurofai... Just, no. Not all guys in manga who are good friends are in love with each other! Yes, they're really good friends (after all they've been through together, who wouldn't be?), but I don't see any evidence of a romantic relationship at all. Nor do I see any evidence that they would be interested in having a romantic relationship with one another. They're FREINDS.

The thing is - they're not friends. They never were. You can say, they're travelling companions, but until Tokyo, Kurogane and Fay didn't even trust each other (and even after that, their relationship wasn't based on mutual trust and friendship).

Quote: ShirubiaLamperouge 

Personally I think that the only thing stopping them from being together is Amaterasu, who naturally would not be too keen on Tomoyo marrying a mere ninja. But both of them have stated about each other that they do what they want to do and don't let anyone tell them differently. I actually think they're quite similar, and work really well as a couple (except for the fact that Tomoyo is like 2 feet shorter than him. Grow, damn you!).

Amaterasu aka Kendappa has no saying in the matter at all, as she's dating a "mere" ninja at the moment .
The biggest factor against KuroTomo? Aside from Kurogane and Fay now having (according to CLAMP) an "eternal bond", of course. Tomoyo. She simply doesn't love him "that way". She'll never be able to love him that way. He's not her "most important person". Kurogane didn't learn the meaning of true strengh because of her, because she knew, she wouldn't be able to teach him.
I personally love Tomoyo, she's one of those characters, that you just can't dislike. I wish we would see more of her, and I sincerely hope, Kurogane and Fay will return to Nihon - if only for the mere reason, that Tomoyo and Fay make an awesome combo .

[Sush]

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First post ever... Hi?


The thing is - they're not friends. They never were. You can say, they're travelling companions, but until Tokyo, Kurogane and Fay didn't even trust each other (and even after that, their relationship wasn't based on mutual trust and friendship).

It´s really true that they weren´t real friends before Tokyo (no Ceres!XD), but one can say that there was a special bound between them all the time, but the circumstances(past and personal problems and trust)haven´t allow more relation between them.
But after Ceres both of them made a strong bound of trust.

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Amaterasu aka Kendappa has no saying in the matter at all, as she's dating a "mere" ninja at the moment .
The biggest factor against KuroTomo? Aside from Kurogane and Fay now having (according to CLAMP) an "eternal bond", of course. Tomoyo. She simply doesn't love him "that way". She'll never be able to love him that way. He's not her "most important person". Kurogane didn't learn the meaning of true strengh because of her, because she knew, she wouldn't be able to teach him.
I personally love Tomoyo, she's one of those characters, that you just can't dislike. I wish we would see more of her, and I sincerely hope, Kurogane and Fay will return to Nihon - if only for the mere reason, that Tomoyo and Fay make an awesome combo .

I totally agree with it. But the Fai/Tomo thing...oh no, please not! Even if they maybe were a funny pairing...xD

[ShirubiaLamperouge]

Quote: Mirien 

Tomoyo. She simply doesn't love him "that way". She'll never be able to love him that way. He's not her "most important person". Kurogane didn't learn the meaning of true strengh because of her, because she knew, she wouldn't be able to teach him.

I disagree. I think there's plenty of scenes that show that Tomoyo does love him, rather than the opposite. As for how she sent him away to find the meaning of true strength, while she wouldn't have been able to teach it to him herself, a) I don't think it's really something you can teach, and b) while this may sound cheesy, it's something he had to find out for himself. I don't think it has any relevance to their relationship.

[Tsubasaholic]

Quote: Mirien 

First post ever... Hi?

Tomoyo. She simply doesn't love him "that way". She'll never be able to love him that way. He's not her "most important person". Kurogane didn't learn the meaning of true strengh because of her, because she knew, she wouldn't be able to teach him.

What makes you think that? Maybe she doesn't jump out with huge declarations of love, but that isn't her or Kurogane's style. I think there's a lot implied between them. Like in Piffle, piffle Tomoyo says that when Nihon Tomoyo was talking about Kurogane she 'certainly enjoyed herself'. It's pretty damn certain that she and Kurogane care about each other tremendously. Reading Nihon, there are just so many shots of them talking and Tomoyo being by his bed when he's injured (also from the book of memories) and the whole "besides, no matter where you are, I always know. You, and only you." thing, and the vow, and the secret name that only she knows, AND the promise to return, and then when she says how he truly understands the meaning of true strength and lays her hand on his shoulder and gazes up at him adoringly.

Amaterasu definitely thinks that there's something between them. In the scene where she creates a kekkai for rsyaoran and seishirou's fight, and Amaterasu says something like "the one who creates the kekkai must not get involved", and looks at Kurogane who looks all serious and troubled kinda. So I don't think that Amaterasu has any problems with 'a mere ninja' (and after all Kurogane is the lord of Suwa, isn't he? Unless it really was totally destroyed, but I find it hard to believe it's just a smoking crater. There must be some grass there or something at the very least) but more with not wanting Tomoyo to be endangered by the conflict with FWR.

Just go look at her face in Nihon when she says "Welcome home, Kurogane" and tell me she doesn't love him.

[Sush]

Ok, then...what speaks against for the Kuro/Fai relationship?
I remember on the scene where Tomoyo spoke to Kurogane who want to help Fai...in Ceres.

In the end, I think that we all cannot really say wether there is a romantic realtionship between Kuro/Tomo or Kuro/Fai.

Until the word "love" won´t fall, nobody can speak about what´s wrong and right. ^^"
And in every story from CLAMP which has a romantic line in it, it was ALWAYS clearly shown in the end, wether it was real love or not ´cause the words "I love you" was spoken for example by Sakura and Shaolan, Subaru and Seishirou, Souma and Kendappa, Toya and Yukito etc. . or the words of "the most important person".

[ShirubiaLamperouge]

It's just that they haven't shown any kind of romantic inclinations towards each other. They act like friends, not at all like how touya and yukito acted together, for example.
Kurofai just doesn't seem to have anything going for it other than that the two of them were in the same manga at the same time. It doesn't seem like anything more than another ship from yaoi loving fangirls who will leap on anything at all and turn it into a couple. Especially since the ship has been going for far longer than when they actually became friends.

Btw, as to Fai and Tomoyo, as long as they're NOT a couple, I think they would get along well. Especially while teasing Kuro-sama .

[Sush]

That´s it. If Tsubasa would be a shoujo manga, then I think there would exists a romantic relation between Kuro and Fai. But Tsubasa is concepting for a shonen magazine...XD

Damn you CLAMP!

[Mirien]

Quote: Sush 

I totally agree with it. But the Fai/Tomo thing...oh no, please not! Even if they maybe were a funny pairing...xD

I didn't mean it as a pairing ^^;. But them team up against Kurogane? I can see that very clearly .

And about Tomoyo - she does love Kurogane, but as a brother or a dear childhood friend. Not in a romantic way. In every world, in every dimension, Sakura will always be her most important person - even if she hasn't met her yet. It's an unrequited love, but as CLAMP said, it's the ultimate form of love, to love a person and want them happy, even if it doesn't necessarily mean your own happiness. It's even clearer in Tsubasa now, that a person's true love, stays a true love, no matter what AU version of a character it is. I mean, look at Syaoran and Sakura - CLAMP killed C!Syao and C!Saku just that they could be together. Is it the first time, CLAMP have done something like this? Nope. It's not the last time either.

Please, if anyone could point me to one scene, in which Tomoyo blushed around Kurogane, then I might consider this pairing being romantic. But even in CCS, she looked fondly and wisely at all her friends, and that's exactly, what she's doing in TRC. She's like that, she's very mature for her age, and she can clearly sense the feelings of others, as Eriol pointed out in CCS. If Kurogane loved her, she would know. But what she's done so far, contradicts the possibility of her feelings for him being romantic. Tomyo, for starters, is the one, who sends him away, to find a meaning of true strengh. While this like ShirubiaLamperouge said probably isn't something you can teach easily, it's something you can never discover alone.
So, how does he find it? In sacrificing himself for Fay. And then, it's Tomoyo, who tells him "If you want him to go with you, if you wish for it with all your heart...". That's not something a person in love says about their potential "rival".

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It's just that they haven't shown any kind of romantic inclinations towards each other. They act like friends, not at all like how touya and yukito acted together, for example.

Not every CLAMP shounen ai/shoujo ai pair acts like Touya and Yukito. It's mostly the opposite. Subaru and Seishirou were trying to kill each other numerous times. Taishakuten killed Ashura-ou, because his lover wished for that. Kazahaya and Rikuo are bickering like an old married couple, while Saiga and Kakei are definitely not just hugging all the time. Kendappa killed Souma, and then herself with Souma's weapon. Saya died for Tohru. All of them never kissed, but all of them are canon (well, maybe Kazahaya and Rikuo aren't, yet). In CLAMP, it's not really about words, but actions. What Kurogane and Fay have done for each other is more than Touya and Yukito ever could. I'm positive, Kurogane and Fay never slept together, but their bond is that of soulmates, which in CLAMP equals romantic love.

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It doesn't seem like anything more than another ship from yaoi loving fangirls who will leap on anything at all and turn it into a couple.

Oh, to the contrary. While there is a vocal group of yaoi loving fanbrats, this ship has fair amount of fans, that never ever liked anything shounen ai-ish in their lives before. One of my closest friends despised yaoi, until she read TRC, and fell in love with Kurogane/Fay. And there's, of course, fans that just love a good chemistry of two characters, no matter what gender they are.

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"besides, no matter where you are, I always know. You, and only you." thing, and the vow, and the secret name that only she knows, AND the promise to return, and then when she says how he truly understands the meaning of true strength and lays her hand on his shoulder and gazes up at him adoringly.

They have a strong bond, there's no denying that. But that doesn't necessarily mean a romantic bond.
The vow was a formal oath, recited by a servant to his master. Generations before have said the same words, and I don't believe, all of the ninjas were in love with their masters.
The meaning of true strenght, is something Kurogane understands because of Fay, and Tomoyo knows it. She's happy, Kurogane's finally grown up, and found his peace. She kinda does look the same way at Fay, if you pay a closer attention.


Kinda long post, but one last thing: I would totally ship Tomoyo with Kurogane. They have all the things I like me in a pairing. But Tomoyo's love for Sakura, is something so beautiful and inspiring, that I can't simply ignore it. I adore Tomoyo too much for disrespecting that part of her. I could see Kurogane having a crush on her, while they were little, but never anything from Tomoyo.
I didn't even consider Kurogane and Fay as possible soulmates until Tokyo, but then all the tension, all the looks, and all their actions spoke louder to me, than any love confessions.

[Sush]

Oh Mirien, you speak from the bottom of my heart! O///o

I couldn´t make it better. Your argumentations are very suitable.

[Tsubasaholic]

Great post Mirien, you have good structure and excellent, clearly expressed arguments. It makes me happy to see that

I still don't think Fai and Kuro work romantically. I don't ship that much but if I feel that two people are meant for each other I support them forever (there's two ships I've supported since I was 5) and if I don't, well, plot developments can change things but after acid Tokyo still I'm not kurofai (I did think it was totally awesome though. That scene gives me shivers. The two of them have a very deep, interesting, and complex relationship; love each other very much; and complete each other) and if that doesn't turn you nothing will. I do understand where kurofai people come from, but I just don't think their relationship is like that. It's not that I'm 'right', it's just how I feel. Nothing more. If you feel the same way about Kurogane and Tomoyo, I fully understand.

I think Kurogane and Tomoyo make a cute couple (grow Tomoyo! GROW!) and would just like to point out that he was most delightfully awkward when she turned up in Piffle! But again, that is just my opinion. Oh, while I'm mentioning piffle I have a half theory that CCS!Syaoran and CCS!Sakura are hiding out there.

[shouryuujo]

maybe amaterasu and kurogane possible pairing as well?

[Tsubasaholic]

No. . . There's nothing between them. They never show the slightest interest in each other. What makes you suggest them?