[Discussion] Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread

Dante Julius · October 14, 2009, 12:26 AM

Thankfully everything's in order now.

chapter 282 is out. I can't upload it here, but you can get it here:
http://nihilsinenefas.wordpress.com/...agabond-c-282/

chapter 283 is out. I can't upload it here, but you can get it here:
http://nihilsinenefas.wordpress.com/...agabond-c-283/

You can discuss the chapter, and predict the next one!

L0ki · October 14, 2009, 01:40 PM

To read or not to read... that is the question...

Homeless Ninja · October 14, 2009, 02:02 PM

Well, at least we still have the 282 preview sketches from Inoue's site:

This one looks like it's possibly more discussion between Musashi and Yagyu, the image in the lower right could be Musashi, or anyone with long hair though. Yagyu did say he had to leave, so perhaps it's discussion between members his estate. It could even Matahatchi and his #1 fan there knowing what we know know. More long shot possibilities I can think of are Takuan and Koetsu or the Kyoto Shoshidai, though those would be random.

On the right it looks to me like the little demonic bloodthirsty incarnation of Musashi, possibly ranting and raging over his defeat, and the thing I'm most sure about in all the sketches, on the left, it appears to be Musashi on the ground where Ito left him (I think you can even see his nose bleed), then being discovered/approached by at least two people. Most likely the innkeepers (they'd be pretty lousy hosts just to leave him there =), maybe some men from the Yagyu depending on happened back there, or by that token even Otsu and Jotaro. Final long shot guess, just because he has a history of it and obviously appears again, perhaps it's Matahatchi there to pick up a fallen Musashi one more time.

All that said, my guesses will probably be completely wrong. =)

Anyway, as for 283, I think the obvious connection to 282 is that Musashi takes his body to its limit and ends up on his back, and once again it looks like he may find the solution to his current situation from insight he already had as a boy.

Also, I'm quite curious about the boy Matahatchi is talking to now, since he apparently not only has light hair, but blue eyes.

Black Lagoon · October 14, 2009, 02:03 PM

Vagabond 283 Discussion / 282 and 284 Prediction Thread
discuss 283 and predict 282, kinda weird/funny

I'll wait for 282

Dante Julius · October 19, 2009, 12:52 AM

I found some raws for 282. We should have it out soon.

Edit: It's out, see the top.

Homeless Ninja · October 20, 2009, 10:10 PM

Great episode, looks like Musashi did better than initially thought, and I love his bloodthirsty form's exasperation with his being a good loser.

"Don't give up, Mac! Fight!!"

Aqsa · October 23, 2009, 10:24 AM

I think judging by the end of 282, that this fight is more of a draw than a loss for Musashi. Maybe even a loss for Ito. After all, Musashi isn't wounded, is he?

If we are instead to consider what would have happened had Ito been using a real sword, then yes, Musashi would have lost, but if we were to assume both fighters were healthy, who knows.

Homeless Ninja · October 23, 2009, 02:41 PM

Quote: Aqsa View Post

I think judging by the end of 282, that this fight is more of a draw than a loss for Musashi. Maybe even a loss for Ito. After all, Musashi isn't wounded, is he?

Yeah, but he was completely beaten and at Ittosai's mercy. The fact that Ittosai spared him, or that he didn't even need to cut him down to win in the first place, doesn't exactly speak well for Musashi as champion here. Though, this definitely gives the fight new perspective, and gives Musashi the opportunity to come out ahead. But, as far as the match itself goes, even Musashi admits Ittosai got the best of him. As things stand, just because Ittosai spared his life and didn't seek proper medical attention doesn't mean he somehow lost after the fact (I bet the old, more Takezo-like, Musashi could make that argument though, "that was his problem" =). Otherwise, did Denshichiro win his first bout with Musashi because Musashi collapsed from his wounds afterward, or what about after the seventy man battle, did Musashi lose again because he would have died had Matahatchi not again saved him?

I think the only way to make Musashi the "winner" is to redefine the terms of the match, or a complete referendum on the philosophy of the sword in general. As far as the Ittosai/old Musashi philosophy goes, Ittosai is clearly the winner, but perhaps by the Yagyu way, or new thinking by Musashi, there is no winner. It is a strong symbol that as Musashi reflects on all this, Ittosai falls, and Musashi seemingly rises.

Anyway, I'd like to see more between them, perhaps Musashi can finally convince Ittosai of the new age sword philosophy (and I want to know what happened to Ito's fingers).

Quote: Aqsa View Post

If we are instead to consider what would have happened had Ito been using a real sword, then yes, Musashi would have lost, but if we were to assume both fighters were healthy, who knows.

All I know is who won at the time with what both brought to the table, "I entered, you fell." We'll see if that stands the test of time though.

宮本寶藏 · October 23, 2009, 06:26 PM

I like to see what Musashi learns from this. In terms of raw power, skill and strategy, Ittousai maybe be greater, but I don't think his style has any form of spiritual training. It's just so bad ass for him to say "I enter, you fell." this is the coolest thing to say especially to an opponent who is considered "Unrivaled Under the Heavens". It's so... gangster lol.. it's like "I fucked you up, who do you think is greater hm?"

This is a nice way for Musashi to figure out how to develop and train mentally and spiritually. I can't help but notice all the hints the recent chapters are giving, reminds me of that movie "The Last Dragon". Sure it was a silly Kung Fu comedy, but that famous line said in the movie "Who's the master Leeroy!??" .... "I am...!" It seems to me that Musashi might have had all the answers inside of him all along, so he has the potential to be one of the greatest but not yet discovered it.

It's also a good spar, this might lead Musashi down the path where he defeats Kojiro. If I were to fight Sasaki, I would love have a sparring partner such as Itto to get myself ready.

Kaiten.Sama · October 24, 2009, 12:12 PM

Musashi is not read for Kojiro yet. At this point Kojiro is fully focused on the sword, whatever weaknesses he has have yet to emerge. Musashi is still trying to find a middle path between his anger and the serenity of the Yagyu. Kojiro may not seem it but he is all beast, Ittousai's disciple through and through. Musashi's "defeat" may facilitate his understanding of the middle path. He seemed to have subdued the "beast" during the fight, to be a truly great warrior he needs to harness it, disperse it, use at as a weapon while remaining detached from it. When Musashi can fight serenely, effortlessly, relying on muscle memory to dictate his actions then he will be able to defeat Kojiro.

zet · October 25, 2009, 06:38 PM

Like some have said before, Musashi has the answers inside him already. As a boy he leaved in thw wilderness and so he was at one with nature, and part of the universe. We got deviated from that frame of spirit/mind and now he's starting to realise that what sekishusai "way of the sword" was all about. We're gonna start seeing a more relaxed Musashi, one that will avoid fights at any cost unless if his life is at stake. On the next chapter I hope to see more of sekishusai spirit talking to Musashi.

Kaiten.Sama · October 25, 2009, 06:49 PM

Musashi is definitely not the guy who will sit on a mountain top painting water colors, writing books. He will be but not yet. While the young Musashi was at one with nature but had not eliminated his sense of self. To truly be a great man he must stop seeking greatness. To be the strongest under heaven he can not be concerned with with being the strongest under heaven. The Ittousai fight demonstrated that sword fighting is not effortless for Musashi.

zet · October 26, 2009, 01:25 PM

I think the his next opponent will be Gonnosuke, in order to test this new resolve. Do you guys think Musashi will take this loss and decide to settle down until his leg heals?

Kaiten.Sama · October 26, 2009, 01:33 PM

I'm guessing the rest of this run of chapters will be Musashi healing himself and contemplating how to become a better swordsman. A lot more Buddhist rumination will be in our near future, I believe. Musashi will probably begin the journey to Edo in the last chapter of this run. That is assuming Inoue doesn't suddenly stop taking breaks between volumes. The next run will focus on the first fight with Gonnosuke as Musashi makes his approach to Edo. I wonder how long the first fight will last, I'm pretty sure Musashi defeated him pretty easily according to legend. The second fight, later on, should be epic.

zet · October 26, 2009, 02:33 PM

yeah I was thinking about the same, he meets Gonosuke on his way to Edo. Musashi wins the first one but on the secound one he concedes and takes Gonosuke on as a student so I'm curious as to how Inoue will portray this.

October 14, 2009, 01:40 PM	#2
L0ki 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 206 Country:	Re: Vagabond 283 Discussion / 282 and 284 Prediction Thread To read or not to read... that is the question... __________________ Utopia SG

October 14, 2009, 02:02 PM	#3
Homeless Ninja 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Join Date: Sep 2008 Gender: Posts: 21 Country:	Re: Vagabond 283 Discussion / 282 and 284 Prediction Thread Well, at least we still have the 282 preview sketches from Inoue's site: This one looks like it's possibly more discussion between Musashi and Yagyu, the image in the lower right could be Musashi, or anyone with long hair though. Yagyu did say he had to leave, so perhaps it's discussion between members his estate. It could even Matahatchi and his #1 fan there knowing what we know know. More long shot possibilities I can think of are Takuan and Koetsu or the Kyoto Shoshidai, though those would be random. On the right it looks to me like the little demonic bloodthirsty incarnation of Musashi, possibly ranting and raging over his defeat, and the thing I'm most sure about in all the sketches, on the left, it appears to be Musashi on the ground where Ito left him (I think you can even see his nose bleed), then being discovered/approached by at least two people. Most likely the innkeepers (they'd be pretty lousy hosts just to leave him there =), maybe some men from the Yagyu depending on happened back there, or by that token even Otsu and Jotaro. Final long shot guess, just because he has a history of it and obviously appears again, perhaps it's Matahatchi there to pick up a fallen Musashi one more time. All that said, my guesses will probably be completely wrong. =) Anyway, as for 283, I think the obvious connection to 282 is that Musashi takes his body to its limit and ends up on his back, and once again it looks like he may find the solution to his current situation from insight he already had as a boy. Also, I'm quite curious about the boy Matahatchi is talking to now, since he apparently not only has light hair, but blue eyes. __________________ Like Vagabond? Then check into the: Click to enter. Last edited by Homeless Ninja : October 14, 2009 at 02:26 PM.

October 14, 2009, 02:03 PM	#4
Black Lagoon Intl Translator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: with Straw Hat Pirates crew Age: 21 Gender: Posts: 2,300 Country:	Re: Vagabond 283 Discussion / 282 and 284 Prediction Thread Vagabond 283 Discussion / 282 and 284 Prediction Thread discuss 283 and predict 282, kinda weird/funny I'll wait for 282 __________________ Kisame's weakness

October 19, 2009, 12:52 AM	#5
Dante Julius Scanlator 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: R'lyeh Age: 20 Gender: Posts: 44 Country:	Re: Vagabond 283 Discussion / 282 and 284 Prediction Thread I found some raws for 282. We should have it out soon. Edit: It's out, see the top. __________________ DIABVLVS A NEFAS TIMOREQVE EXCITAT ATRVM LVCEM LEGEMQVE ENIM NET IVDEX VMBRARVM LIBERTATEN INNOCENTVM VBIQVE SVBRVIT Last edited by Dante Julius : October 19, 2009 at 04:10 AM.

October 20, 2009, 10:10 PM	#6
Homeless Ninja 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Join Date: Sep 2008 Gender: Posts: 21 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread Great episode, looks like Musashi did better than initially thought, and I love his bloodthirsty form's exasperation with his being a good loser. "Don't give up, Mac! Fight!!" __________________ Like Vagabond? Then check into the: Click to enter.

October 14, 2009, 12:26 AM	#1
Dante Julius Scanlator 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: R'lyeh Age: 20 Gender: Posts: 44 Country:	[Discussion] Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread Thankfully everything's in order now. chapter 282 is out. I can't upload it here, but you can get it here: http://nihilsinenefas.wordpress.com/...agabond-c-282/ chapter 283 is out. I can't upload it here, but you can get it here: http://nihilsinenefas.wordpress.com/...agabond-c-283/ You can discuss the chapter, and predict the next one! __________________ DIABVLVS A NEFAS TIMOREQVE EXCITAT ATRVM LVCEM LEGEMQVE ENIM NET IVDEX VMBRARVM LIBERTATEN INNOCENTVM VBIQVE SVBRVIT Last edited by Dante Julius : October 19, 2009 at 03:46 AM.

October 23, 2009, 10:24 AM	#7
Aqsa 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Gender: Posts: 92 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread I think judging by the end of 282, that this fight is more of a draw than a loss for Musashi. Maybe even a loss for Ito. After all, Musashi isn't wounded, is he? If we are instead to consider what would have happened had Ito been using a real sword, then yes, Musashi would have lost, but if we were to assume both fighters were healthy, who knows.

October 23, 2009, 02:41 PM	#8
Homeless Ninja 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Join Date: Sep 2008 Gender: Posts: 21 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread Quote: Aqsa I think judging by the end of 282, that this fight is more of a draw than a loss for Musashi. Maybe even a loss for Ito. After all, Musashi isn't wounded, is he? Yeah, but he was completely beaten and at Ittosai's mercy. The fact that Ittosai spared him, or that he didn't even need to cut him down to win in the first place, doesn't exactly speak well for Musashi as champion here. Though, this definitely gives the fight new perspective, and gives Musashi the opportunity to come out ahead. But, as far as the match itself goes, even Musashi admits Ittosai got the best of him. As things stand, just because Ittosai spared his life and didn't seek proper medical attention doesn't mean he somehow lost after the fact (I bet the old, more Takezo-like, Musashi could make that argument though, "that was his problem" =). Otherwise, did Denshichiro win his first bout with Musashi because Musashi collapsed from his wounds afterward, or what about after the seventy man battle, did Musashi lose again because he would have died had Matahatchi not again saved him? I think the only way to make Musashi the "winner" is to redefine the terms of the match, or a complete referendum on the philosophy of the sword in general. As far as the Ittosai/old Musashi philosophy goes, Ittosai is clearly the winner, but perhaps by the Yagyu way, or new thinking by Musashi, there is no winner. It is a strong symbol that as Musashi reflects on all this, Ittosai falls, and Musashi seemingly rises. Anyway, I'd like to see more between them, perhaps Musashi can finally convince Ittosai of the new age sword philosophy (and I want to know what happened to Ito's fingers). Quote: Aqsa If we are instead to consider what would have happened had Ito been using a real sword, then yes, Musashi would have lost, but if we were to assume both fighters were healthy, who knows. All I know is who won at the time with what both brought to the table, "I entered, you fell." We'll see if that stands the test of time though. __________________ Like Vagabond? Then check into the: Click to enter. Last edited by Homeless Ninja : October 23, 2009 at 06:59 PM.

October 23, 2009, 06:26 PM	#9
宮本寶藏初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Where I live... Age: 26 Gender: Posts: 19 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread I like to see what Musashi learns from this. In terms of raw power, skill and strategy, Ittousai maybe be greater, but I don't think his style has any form of spiritual training. It's just so bad ass for him to say "I enter, you fell." this is the coolest thing to say especially to an opponent who is considered "Unrivaled Under the Heavens". It's so... gangster lol.. it's like "I fucked you up, who do you think is greater hm?" This is a nice way for Musashi to figure out how to develop and train mentally and spiritually. I can't help but notice all the hints the recent chapters are giving, reminds me of that movie "The Last Dragon". Sure it was a silly Kung Fu comedy, but that famous line said in the movie "Who's the master Leeroy!??" .... "I am...!" It seems to me that Musashi might have had all the answers inside of him all along, so he has the potential to be one of the greatest but not yet discovered it. It's also a good spar, this might lead Musashi down the path where he defeats Kojiro. If I were to fight Sasaki, I would love have a sparring partner such as Itto to get myself ready. __________________

October 24, 2009, 12:12 PM	#10
Kaiten.Sama Mangahelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maryland Age: 30 Gender: Posts: 2,760 Gallery: 26 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread Musashi is not read for Kojiro yet. At this point Kojiro is fully focused on the sword, whatever weaknesses he has have yet to emerge. Musashi is still trying to find a middle path between his anger and the serenity of the Yagyu. Kojiro may not seem it but he is all beast, Ittousai's disciple through and through. Musashi's "defeat" may facilitate his understanding of the middle path. He seemed to have subdued the "beast" during the fight, to be a truly great warrior he needs to harness it, disperse it, use at as a weapon while remaining detached from it. When Musashi can fight serenely, effortlessly, relying on muscle memory to dictate his actions then he will be able to defeat Kojiro. __________________ Moving the Movement With Kaiten Seinen//Vagabond//Otaku Cafe

October 25, 2009, 06:38 PM	#11
zet 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 60 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread Like some have said before, Musashi has the answers inside him already. As a boy he leaved in thw wilderness and so he was at one with nature, and part of the universe. We got deviated from that frame of spirit/mind and now he's starting to realise that what sekishusai "way of the sword" was all about. We're gonna start seeing a more relaxed Musashi, one that will avoid fights at any cost unless if his life is at stake. On the next chapter I hope to see more of sekishusai spirit talking to Musashi.

October 25, 2009, 06:49 PM	#12
Kaiten.Sama Mangahelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maryland Age: 30 Gender: Posts: 2,760 Gallery: 26 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread Musashi is definitely not the guy who will sit on a mountain top painting water colors, writing books. He will be but not yet. While the young Musashi was at one with nature but had not eliminated his sense of self. To truly be a great man he must stop seeking greatness. To be the strongest under heaven he can not be concerned with with being the strongest under heaven. The Ittousai fight demonstrated that sword fighting is not effortless for Musashi. __________________ Moving the Movement With Kaiten Seinen//Vagabond//Otaku Cafe

October 26, 2009, 01:25 PM	#13
zet 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 60 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread I think the his next opponent will be Gonnosuke, in order to test this new resolve. Do you guys think Musashi will take this loss and decide to settle down until his leg heals?

October 26, 2009, 01:33 PM	#14
Kaiten.Sama Mangahelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maryland Age: 30 Gender: Posts: 2,760 Gallery: 26 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread I'm guessing the rest of this run of chapters will be Musashi healing himself and contemplating how to become a better swordsman. A lot more Buddhist rumination will be in our near future, I believe. Musashi will probably begin the journey to Edo in the last chapter of this run. That is assuming Inoue doesn't suddenly stop taking breaks between volumes. The next run will focus on the first fight with Gonnosuke as Musashi makes his approach to Edo. I wonder how long the first fight will last, I'm pretty sure Musashi defeated him pretty easily according to legend. The second fight, later on, should be epic. __________________ Moving the Movement With Kaiten Seinen//Vagabond//Otaku Cafe

October 26, 2009, 02:33 PM	#15
zet 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Posts: 60 Country:	Re: Vagabond 282 - 283 Discussion / 284 Prediction Thread yeah I was thinking about the same, he meets Gonosuke on his way to Edo. Musashi wins the first one but on the secound one he concedes and takes Gonosuke on as a student so I'm curious as to how Inoue will portray this.