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modoki
April 16, 2010, 07:14 PM
Ok this is starting to bother more than anything!!!

If this was already explained, im sorry just delete this


First of all going back to Archipelago where the human auctioning house resided. Since the tenryuubito were introduced, they have had in their possession pirates slaves for their own personal use.

1. So if these high class nobles probably already knew about the auction house's jolly roger logo, how in the heck do they stand buying pirates slaves when the former owner of that house was a pirate himself..?

Second The most recent chapter of one piece regarding moria and flamingo. The prior explosion was caused by a pacifista. Judging from their positioning, they seem to be at will by flamingo.

Wait a second, from what i recalled the pacifista took orders "only" from vegapunk's bodyguard sentoumaru. Flamingo wasnt using any form of puppetry on these pacifistas..


2. Do you guys believe that flamingo may have some deep secret connection with the Gorousei? And do you think this guy may be more of a worry in future occurrences than Teach himself?

bittman
April 16, 2010, 10:31 PM
Doflamingo is the physical representation of everything that is wrong with the world.

If it's corrupt governments, Doflamingo is all over it.
If it's an unsanctioned slave trade, Doflamingo is all over it.
If it's some pirates who believe trash shouldn't go on living, Doflamingo is all over it.

So on 1) Doflamingo is most likely working for Gorousei directly, and the Pacifista's have probably been programmed with a heirachy of receiving orders from certain people. Doflamingo is probably on that list.

2) And yeah, definitely Gorousei. Tenryuubito are too weak willed to order something of the Moria-nature. I've always liked Doflamingo, seeing how much Oda got him to talk in this war, I'm beginning to think that Doflamingo might be more an end-gamer than early new-world encounter.

What do I mean by that? Well Luffy might have defeated an admiral before he takes on Doflamingo. To me admirals are the end game. Blackbeard is endgame. Mihawk is endgame. Not "final battle", but "close to final battle". Doflamingo has just appeared to be a mid-game, but if he represents the Gorousei in some way, then perhaps he's closer to end game.

I could easily see Doflamingo sitting atop Poseiden with the world in his sights. That's the sort of end game Doflamingo could be sitting in.

Uriel
April 18, 2010, 12:59 PM
I'm starting to think that Doflamingo is son of one of the Gorosei. Someone with a high attitude that doesn't really matter about anyone and able to put a price on someone. Someone who because of the lack of attention of his parents became an outlaw. Someone who believes that truth is gained by winnings only.

I don't know, seems to fit and be coherent for me.

Fox666
April 18, 2010, 04:29 PM
The first thing that comes to my mind is that Doflamingo is just being paid for it.

Bugzee
May 06, 2010, 05:10 PM
He is the true "puppet" of the government. ;)

I stand strong behind my theory/idea that Doflamingo's father is a member of the Gorousei. Well at least some kind of blood relation anyway. :p

BlackHair
May 06, 2010, 07:45 PM
I would be disappointed if Flamingo would be just another puppet of the WG. I highly believe he works for his own goals, just using the WG to archive it.

Tinori
May 07, 2010, 12:43 AM
talk about his powers.

I don't know if anyone have notice this but im pretty sure one of his ability is the use of invisible wires. This is how he manage to cut oak's leg and cut people without showing any form of sharp weapons.

Might go as far as him using the wires to constrict people stopping their movements or play puppeteer.

ScratchmenApoo
May 07, 2010, 01:59 AM
Doflamingo does seem greedy. When the World Government put a bounty over 300 million of him, I bet he dragged his own ass in the front gate of the World Government just to get the money himself. The Bounty posters do say "dead OR alive".
On a serious note, though, Doflamingo represents the definition of Shichibukai the most. He does dirty work for the government, but he still IS a pirate, and a nasty one at that. So I believe sooner or later he WILL go back to being a pirate. I bet he still has his own crew still waiting for him...
However, I don't think he is the son of a member of the Gorousei. The current Gorousei have been together for at least 20 years and Doflamingo looked to be quite a pirate at Roger's execution. If Gorousei are as powerful as they are thought to be, I don't think they'd let a member's child run loose like that.

BetaRuler
May 07, 2010, 05:28 PM
Um... if Doflamingo was a son of a Gorousei, wouldnt he'd be just a Tenryubuto? I don't think he'd be seen as a pirate no matter how evil he behave if he were a family member.

BTW, it seems anyone recognised as a Shichibukai by the PX serie's are capable of giving orders to the PX series. There must be some kind of list in their heads that can be updated possibly remotely that tells them who to target or whose orders to follow.

Bugzee
May 07, 2010, 06:13 PM
Um... if Doflamingo was a son of a Gorousei, wouldnt he'd be just a Tenryubuto? I don't think he'd be seen as a pirate no matter how evil he behave if he were a family member.

No I don't think he would be considered a Tenryuubito (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/World_Noble).

What if it's a hidden secret and most of the WG don't know? ;)

BetaRuler
May 07, 2010, 07:36 PM
How or why would they keep their son a secret? It makes no sense...
Did your think it was "to cover up his reputation" it would be a bit late... Details like members of royalty or family members of the world leaders would be quite hard to miss.


If I had to make my own guess on such a mans past and personality... I'd say he could have been a poor kid who grew up in a rough neighbourhood, then he might have become a servant (not a slave like Boa) to a tenryubuto thinking they would be noble, who only in turn taught him how they can get away with their cruelty because of their influence, after he'd decide to leave them he might have set out to become a pirate king with his sense of morals long gone out the window. On his way to becoming as good as a Yonkou, he's made a business along the way, and kept contacts with the tenryubuto.
I would certainly say he is on friendly terms with some Tenryubuto, like he might have become a Shichibukai with their recomendation to the Gorousei. He doesn't seem like a man who has any friends though, they'd either betray him or be long dead, he would keep everyone emotionally distanced away from him...
Now to wait another 400 chapters to see if I got any of that at all correct!

chess4
May 13, 2010, 04:37 PM
i wonder does he still have a crew? if so i hope we get to see them soon

anaskr
May 16, 2010, 02:08 AM
as you say that this guy has these invisible wires or threads, and he killed JR ORE so easily and then later on moria !! so he cud have killed luffy in an instant! isn that the case?????? what type of person is he? why have the gov also choosen MIHAWK ?? KUMA is no more kuma so its understandable, y mihawk?

BlackHair
May 16, 2010, 03:23 AM
Tiny almost invincible wires, mirror refection techniques and hypnosis. I consider those three the worst abilities ever to be invented and used in manga. It's just overused in the past years, thus I consider that as easy writing. I rly hope Oda does not give Flamingo a wire ability and consequently a second wire technique in his manga.

St Michael
May 16, 2010, 05:05 PM
I don't see anything that can cut easily the leg of a super giant and control people like puppet BUT invicible wires.

At least the character is fun , even if you don't like his power , he will make his fight(s) enjoyable.

johnnyb7
May 17, 2010, 03:31 PM
I think Doflamingo is going to have some connections to Dragon and will be involved in fighting against the revolutionaries or with them against the Gouresei. Either way I think that he'll fight Luffy at one point, possible fighting Dragon as well.

kebuenowilly
September 01, 2010, 09:20 AM
Just wondering how will they look... cuz he never takes out his sunglasses...

Spaceman-Spiff
September 01, 2010, 12:14 PM
He probably has crazy eyes.

A bigger mystery is Sanji's left eye...

Fox666
September 01, 2010, 08:41 PM
http://a.imageshack.us/img29/4930/dedenmushi.png

REN KOUEN
October 09, 2013, 01:04 PM
i have thought about this for a few days now and the more i think about it

the more i like DF as a character, and love him as a villain

He seems to have turned his back on his family legacy of being a celestial dragon to seek a life of underworld crime and political corruption in the new world

He actually cares for his underlings, as seen by his reaction when law apprehended the art-no mi lady on the ship in the last chapter. many strong villains dont care about their underlings and view them as dispensable commodities. This really gives you the feel of the whole underground crime/mob boss type profile

He is strong, strong enough to make law and sanji look bad, maybe not yonko type power
but certainly formidable, probably the strongest villain of any arc thus far

the ties he has with law in the past and the ties to the celestial dragons, his roll as joker in the underground crime world, and obviously the ties to the world government as a schibukai all make him a complex and unique character, however the part i love the most about him is how he places his stature as the king of dressrosa seems to be the most important to him, which makes him seem like as opposed to a villain he really has his own sense of justice or self actualization that takes precedence over conventional right and wrong

in other words instead of just doing what is wrong, he views his actions as justified by his own set of rules.

just overall a masterfully developed character by oda
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/326/0/b/doflamingo_by_thefresco-d4gz3gk.jpg

7pac
October 09, 2013, 03:01 PM
I honestly prefer Akainu tbh.

REN KOUEN
October 09, 2013, 05:07 PM
I honestly prefer Akainu tbh.

well he is certainly a hated character, and i agree that he isnt exactly a "good guy"

but was he really the "villain" of the war arc? he certainly gained the most attention and hatred from the fans

but something tells me he will have a more focused roll as a "main villain" of an arc later on, maybe not

but i can certainly respect your opinion on that, Oda did a great job of making most OP fans hate that guy right off the bad

not only for killing ace

but also for lying to squardo to get squardo to betray WB

hes just a low down bastard who isnt a respectable admiaral like kizaru is or how aokoji was

now kizaru isnt exactly a nice guy, however he doesnt seem to have the below the belt style of akainu

who may very well be the most hated man in OP

of course my favorite villain overall would probably be marshall D teach

i just love BB because he is a real pirate, like if you pictured a pirate in your mind, you picture a sloppy rum drinking cut throat bastard who would gut his own mom for treasure

that my friends is black beard

and it will be epic when he gets his main arc (he will be a lasting villain before then too im sure) its going to be something to see

Seafarer
October 10, 2013, 03:25 AM
I have to agree, DD is by far the best-developped villain in the entire series. BlackBeard and Akainu both committed hate-inducing acts, but neither of them has half the character depth of Doflamingo. We know very little about the history that backs their motivation, which makes them seem very shallow in comparison.

Plus, sooner or later past villains eventually "lost it" and resorted to gratuitous acts that made them hatable to the audience but did not make much sense and destroyed their character:
- CP9 turning to cold-blooded murder and wide-scale destruction after years of patient infiltration
- Spandam (the guy is a childish-minded psychopath. No-one in their right mind would entrust to him the government's top secret police, seriously)
- Crocodile attempting to bomb the population of the very kingdom he's trying to seize
- Ener trying to destroy the whole of Skypiea (although Ener is simply insane, so his acts don't have to make sense)
- Hodi trying to sink FI
- ...

Dofla has yet to perform one of those, which makes him much more solid as a character. I hope he doesn't, truth be told. He's already a perfect villain the way he is now.

danzouismadara
October 10, 2013, 03:36 AM
yes, since DD is pretty much part of all the immoral things in one piece. Plus, he is dangerously strong and ruthless.

7pac
October 10, 2013, 03:51 AM
well he is certainly a hated character, and i agree that he isnt exactly a "good guy"

but was he really the "villain" of the war arc? he certainly gained the most attention and hatred from the fans

but something tells me he will have a more focused roll as a "main villain" of an arc later on, maybe not

but i can certainly respect your opinion on that, Oda did a great job of making most OP fans hate that guy right off the bad

not only for killing ace

but also for lying to squardo to get squardo to betray WB

hes just a low down bastard who isnt a respectable admiaral like kizaru is or how aokoji was

now kizaru isnt exactly a nice guy, however he doesnt seem to have the below the belt style of akainu

who may very well be the most hated man in OP

of course my favorite villain overall would probably be marshall D teach

i just love BB because he is a real pirate, like if you pictured a pirate in your mind, you picture a sloppy rum drinking cut throat bastard who would gut his own mom for treasure

that my friends is black beard

and it will be epic when he gets his main arc (he will be a lasting villain before then too im sure) its going to be something to see


I surely agree with you! BlackBeard is the stereotypical Pirate we would picture ourselfs. But I still see him kinda of a joker, Yeah he's a villain but he's like luffy, but evil.
Funny that we keep using the terms "evil" and "good", since there is no such things but just beliefs of every individual, Either way, Akainu is both hated, incredibly strong, awesome, altho I hate him, I still love him, awesome character in my opinion. And he's like coolminded, like he focuses on what he has to do, and doesn't fuck around like 90% of the one piece world, if you notice. The only 2 characters that don't just blabber but attack I saw, were WhiteBeard and Akainu.

It's still early tho, the characters have not been developed yet. Oh And I must correct you on the fact that BlackBeard is the last Villain, He is not.

In my opinion the story goes like this:

Luffy-> Conquers Yonko's and most of the New World
Luffy-> Fights with BlackBeard Before Reaching Raftel ( for some reason I'm sure to reach raftel you need to have the ability to hear the voice of all things, otherwise the other yonko and thousands pirates have just been fuccking around for decades...??)
Luffy-> Reaches Raftel, Becomes Pirate King, Discovers The Blank Century Secrets.
Luffy-> Starts a Huge War, Pirates vs Marines and WG.
Luff-> And Strawhats battle with the 5 Elder Stars


So imo, it goes BB->Akainu->WG

REN KOUEN
October 10, 2013, 09:04 AM
I have to agree, DD is by far the best-developped villain in the entire series. BlackBeard and Akainu both committed hate-inducing acts, but neither of them has half the character depth of Doflamingo. We know very little about the history that backs their motivation, which makes them seem very shallow in comparison.

Plus, sooner or later past villains eventually "lost it" and resorted to gratuitous acts that made them hatable to the audience but did not make much sense and destroyed their character:
- CP9 turning to cold-blooded murder and wide-scale destruction after years of patient infiltration
- Spandam (the guy is a childish-minded psychopath. No-one in their right mind would entrust to him the government's top secret police, seriously)
- Crocodile attempting to bomb the population of the very kingdom he's trying to seize
- Ener trying to destroy the whole of Skypiea (although Ener is simply insane, so his acts don't have to make sense)
- Hodi trying to sink FI
- ...

Dofla has yet to perform one of those, which makes him much more solid as a character. I hope he doesn't, truth be told. He's already a perfect villain the way he is now.

i do believe we will receive much more background about black beard, especially since he also has the will of D and his father was apparently an important pirate

akainu on the other hand..... we may not be as fortunate to learn as much about his past and history, but who knows. Oda does love to go into the past and tell stories.

So far Oda has done a great job of using flashbacks to fill us in on details of certain characters.

zelllogan
October 10, 2013, 09:45 AM
Don Flamingo didn't make enough to make the straw hats hate him. He didn't arm the strawhats directly.
Crocodile is still far ahead for me.

REN KOUEN
October 10, 2013, 10:57 AM
Don Flamingo didn't make enough to make the straw hats hate him. He didn't arm the strawhats directly.
Crocodile is still far ahead for me.

Well Df was behind the human slavery auction that lead luffy to attack the celestial dragon camie getting caught and hachi getting shot

and he was also behind ceasar capturing those kids and experimenting on them

he has been behind much of the strawhats frustration

and give him some time, the arc isnt over yet, i could see him really pissing some of them off before the end of the dressrosa saga

zelllogan
October 10, 2013, 11:53 AM
Well Df was behind the human slavery auction that lead luffy to attack the celestial dragon camie getting caught and hachi getting shot

and he was also behind ceasar capturing those kids and experimenting on them

he has been behind much of the strawhats frustration

and give him some time, the arc isnt over yet, i could see him really pissing some of them off before the end of the dressrosa saga
I'm giving him time but you're the one talking about "so far" in the manga :).
He needs to do something massive to obtain the level of hate crocodile had. Basically, he needs to kill Law,Rebecca or Kinemon.

When luffy heard about BB in this arc, he nearly didn't react even though he is also responsible for the death of his brother & the destruction of chopper's land. Indirect hits doesn't matter. Luffy needs to see up front evil deeds. Concerning Dofla, Luffy started to see it in the jail at the coliseum but that's nowhere near enough.

hoeru
October 10, 2013, 05:04 PM
"Is Don Flamingo the best villain thus far in One Piece ?"

He's interesting and has some sort of charisma. But best by far? How does anyone measure this? Blackbeard hid himself for 20 years within the Whitebeard Pirates and then suddenly became a Yonko within a year as his plan started to unfold.

Luffy has still many villains to take out. Shichibukai, Yonko, Marine officers - there should still be one left from the worst generation.

ukimix
October 10, 2013, 08:01 PM
"Is Don Flamingo the best villain thus far in One Piece ?"

He's interesting and has some sort of charisma. But best by far? How does anyone measure this? Blackbeard hid himself for 20 years within the Whitebeard Pirates and then suddenly became a Yonko within a year as his plan started to unfold.

Luffy has still many villains to take out. Shichibukai, Yonko, Marine officers - there should still be one left from the worst generation.

The best by far ≠ the best thus far. So I think he's simply asking if DD is the best villain we have seen until now.

Imo, yes; he's the best or the one I have enjoyed the most until now.

weixiaobao
October 11, 2013, 03:21 AM
Plus, sooner or later past villains eventually "lost it" and resorted to gratuitous acts that made them hatable to the audience but did not make much sense and destroyed their character:
- CP9 turning to cold-blooded murder and wide-scale destruction after years of patient infiltration
- Spandam (the guy is a childish-minded psychopath. No-one in their right mind would entrust to him the government's top secret police, seriously)
- Crocodile attempting to bomb the population of the very kingdom he's trying to seize
- Ener trying to destroy the whole of Skypiea (although Ener is simply insane, so his acts don't have to make sense)
- Hodi trying to sink FI
- ...

Dofla has yet to perform one of those, which makes him much more solid as a character. I hope he doesn't, truth be told. He's already a perfect villain the way he is now.

Cp9 has always been cold blooded murderer, that is their true face. The question here is not to be surprise about their so call ruthlessness but rather how were they able to stay undercover. But even that question was answer within the series. Rob Lucci and the likes didn't hide their opinion how disgusting the whole thing was. By "being professional" and "bottle up the urge to kill," they are just that more murderous. However, Rob Lucci had always been professional through out so I don't get the "wide scale destruction" comment at all.

Oh geez, Spandam, come on, you don't get Spandam?? That is precisely the point. It showed incompetent in the government. But one piece spell it out with the character by making him as cartoonish as possible. I have been following politics long enough to know there are clowns like Spandam all over. From Palin to Bachman to Perry to Hermain Cain to Ted Cruz, and those are just the Americans. Also the number one point to Spandam which touch on the Celestial Dragon is this "NEPOTISM."

On Crocodile, he wants the throne. And more than that, he wants the ancient weapon. The throne is just a convenient to work without attracting attention very much like Doflamingo. He wants to build a powerful military force by using the ancient weapons and force pirates under his flag. Although, Crocodile didn't really state the reason for the bomb, it is clear to me. For 1, that isn't the entire population of Alabasta, it is just a small portion. For 2, he planned to build a military out of pirates he doesn't need army/people with morality that are able to stand up to him. Wiping them out in one sweep is the best thing for him. Once he got the ancient weapon, which was supposed to be during the plan Utopia, he had the bargaining chip against the world government. But he wasn't successful in that.

Enel does whatever he wants. But Enel is also one of the more intelligent enemy that Luffy encounter.

And then there is Hody. Geez, I thought he said exactly why he did what he did?? The other ones are kinda old so I explain them. But this is fairly recent. I am not even bother.

Seafarer
October 12, 2013, 05:03 PM
Yes, yes, Oda is thorough as a storywriter. However, just because there is a story justification for every little thing doesn't mean that it makes sense and builds an enjoyable character, or that we have to like it.

On the matter of CP9, how else do you call burning down the siege of Galley-la, trying to murder the mayor, and openly assaulting the shipwrights? Honestly, if they were prepared from the start to resort to such methods, why even bother with infiltration? This is precisely the aspect of CP9 I have trouble with. Either they're straightforward brutes or they're cautious infiltrators, but being both at a time doesn't make much sense.

As for Spandam, just because he is the embodiment of a social comment doesn't mean that he should be a caricature through and through.

Crocodile is probably the one character I shouldn't have included in the list. The bombing is arguable, but everything prior to that was a masterplan.


Anyway, we simply do not have the same appreciation of characters. I do not see a point in discussing it further.

weixiaobao
October 12, 2013, 05:52 PM
Yes, yes, Oda is thorough as a storywriter. However, just because there is a story justification for every little thing doesn't mean that it makes sense and builds an enjoyable character, or that we have to like it.

Just you or "we"?? Who are we?? So now you are going from understanding to like??


Honestly, if they were prepared from the start to resort to such methods, why even bother with infiltration? This is precisely the aspect of CP9 I have trouble with. Either they're straightforward brutes or they're cautious infiltrators, but being both at a time doesn't make much sense.

No, no, and no... Didn't you read the manga.. I don't want to tell you things and then you are going to be defensive and said well although I don't understand that doesn't meant I gonna like it. Like Hody, I perfectly understand him. He is okay as villain I like others better. Again, if you want me to enlighten you I will, but if you want to have a fix set of belief then feel free to do so.


As for Spandam, just because he is the embodiment of a social comment doesn't mean that he should be a caricature through and through.

This one I would argue. To me as a specific reader, he is a social commentary. Maybe Oda doesn't meant him that way, but it is logical within the One Piece world. In fact, meaphe like Spandam as a villain very much. I hold her opinion (as a literature analysis and the fact that she makes a ton of videos on One Piece reviews that I think were mostly intellectual) with much much more weight than yours.

http://www.youtube.com/user/meapheandjunk

Best One Piece reviewer on the web.... (this statement is an opinion not fact).


Anyway, we simply do not have the same appreciation of characters. I do not see a point in discussing it further.

Well, there is understanding and there is "like" or "not like." I see you as misunderstanding some of the characters. I do too sometimes. If you want me to explain what my flaw understanding, I would. But don't be too close minded and defensive if I call you out on it.

---------- Post added at 05:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------

If anyone had the same view of Seafarer and want my interpretation on the matter, I will continue. I thought his last comment is laughable. Mixing misunderstanding with like or not like. Sure the title of this thread does have to do with like and not like, but if you going to put out posts that are inherently flaw, then be ready for them to be criticize. (Or never mind, since we all gonna like different things like tacos and tacos and tacos, and apples, and Chinese food. There is like no point to talk about anything.)

As for the topic of this thread, the current arc isn't over yet for me to decide. Each previous villains brought something different to the "angle" of villainy. I don't know why but I like the semi unpredictable Enel. Unlike most of the previous villains, Doflamingo does not have a clear upper hand in the plot and or driving the Strawhats into a corner yet (or create a desperate situation) (which I kinda like because Oda is trying something different). But then again, that is the way Oda want to tell the current arc. Doflamingo's ambition though seemed to be second only to Black Beard.

MBVC
October 12, 2013, 06:23 PM
"When luffy heard about BB in this arc, he nearly didn't react even though he is also responsible for the death of his brother & the destruction of chopper's land"


Please don't blame BB for Ace dead. Ace was killed because he was stubborn, he thought he could beat the crap out of Akainu but he wasn't powerful enough. Honestly speaking, he made huge mistakes twice, I really don't understand why Ace thought he could finish BB easily base on his inexperience in both skills and power. Of course he saved Luffy by fighting BB but he really shouldn't have fought with Akainu in that situation. Defending WB's honor makes sense if and only if he'd had the ability to win not by loosing his life meaninglessly. Luffy is only a little bit more realistic when he decided to run from smoker or ordered his crew to run away from both Aokiji and Kizaru.


Only Akainu was serious and a jack@$$ during the war, both Aokiji and Kizaru had several chances to kill Luffy but both of them just stopped him from moving forward because they all knew Garp would have hunted them down afterward if Luffy died. Aokiji could have frozen both Jinbei and Luffy on the ice (Aokiji > Jinbei on ice) and Kizaru could have aimed at Luff's big head instead of that small key.

weixiaobao
October 12, 2013, 06:45 PM
Please don't blame BB for Ace dead.

That part bother me a bit. But I could make some sense out of Ace, if WhiteBeard didn't sacrifice himself, then maybe things will turn out for a different. What Akainu pretty much did was spitting on Whitebeard face when WhiteBeard is making the most selfless decision. And maybe because of Ace that they got into that mess in the first place, he felt that he had to do something. I supposed that is something in the spur of the moment and you can't think clearly because you are so clouded with your emotions. When Ace die, I recall a large portion of One Piece fans in mangahelpers were piss and felt that he die for no reason. I could understand that sentiment.

The whole Akainu and Aojiki dynamic is very interesting. In the overall picture, I still have trouble seeing Akainu as a villain like Magellan. But if he keeps up his good work on Marineford, I may change this opinion.

MBVC
October 12, 2013, 07:22 PM
I really don't mind him defending WB's honor, but at least he had to win otherwise it's really stupid to die without any damage to the insulter. To sum it all up, Ace was an ignorant bastard, he overestimated himself and underestimated both BB and Aikainu.

Luffy did the same thing when he punched a CD, if he asked Sanji to think up a plan to kidnap that CD for saving Camie & Hacchi then it's harder for the marine to know who did it, those underlings who worked for CD were weaklings, I think Sanji, Robin and Usopp (these 3 are quite efficient doing sneaky things) were more than enough handling the rescue operation, but I guess bunching a CD is much more cooler than kidnapping one, not to mention Luffy dislikes any kind of kidnapping too.

weixiaobao
October 12, 2013, 07:36 PM
I really don't mind him defending WB's honor, but at least he had to win otherwise it's really stupid to die without any damage to the insulter. To sum it all up, Ace was an ignorant bastard, he overestimated himself and underestimated both BB and Aikainu.

I don't recall the exact details. When that chapter came out a lot of people share your sentiments, but funnily enough, with the passage of time, people look at Ace's death quite fondly. Part of it is within Ace's nature (the good + the bad). I meant he was reckless enough to go up against Whitebeard in the first place. Beside he isn't the smartest tool in the shed anyhow. Even now, I thought it was brilliant that Oda kill Ace before Whitebeard to f*ck with people's head. As far as characters' behaviors and if they acted natural up until the moment of Akainu killed Ace, I am leaning toward "yes, the whole thing sort of logical." But I could understand the criticism that Ace's death is flaw.

But boy, BlackBeard sure have a lot of guts. He need the government to be on his side after offending WhiteBeard. On that meant time, he fled to Paradise when WhiteBeard had much less influence in as opposed to the New World while he gather up followers. But he took so much risks too. If WhiteBeard had send Marco or Jozu or even Vista (or 2 and 3 of the commanders), then Blackbeard would be in big trouble. Though at time, I felt BlackBeard is more of a background element of the plot instead of a villain. He will be one sooner or later. Now that I think about it I don't really hate a villain in One Piece. In some series (manga/books/tv/movies), there are great villains that make your blood boil with rage and you just want to beat the shit out of them. I don't feel that way about One Piece villains.

MBVC
October 12, 2013, 07:57 PM
At least BB left Ace alive so that WB could rescue him, and they almost succeeded only if Ace decided to go all out revenge for WB after the war, maybe in 1-2 years then he'd have died honor with his full pride. What BB told WB was true that he didn't kill Ace only WB failed to save him, that's all.

I only dislike Spandam for being a f**head, I was quite disappointed that Robin didn't break several of his limbs but I really don't want him dead of course. Hody receives his punishment from those pills, Akainu was used by BB to create another bigger monster and he has to deal with the huge consequences afterward.

weixiaobao
October 12, 2013, 08:16 PM
At least BB left Ace alive so that WB could rescue him, and they almost succeeded only if Ace decided to go all out revenge for WB after the war, maybe in 1-2 years then he'd have died honor with his full pride. What BB told WB was true that he didn't kill Ace only WB failed to save him, that's all.

Okay, this is what Mr. Seaferer didn't get in his post. Things change, characters change to adopt. BlackBeard wants the shichibukai title to get access to Impel Down. But he didn't plan on capturing Ace, and because of Ace he got to start the whole war and draw out WhiteBeard. He made a huge gamble on WhiteBeard dying but it pay off big time. Like wise, Rob Lucci and companions were dutifully follow their duty and then Nico Robin show up and speed up the whole process. If I am recall correctly, once Nico Robin show up, Spandam changed their order (which more like hurry up, maybe it may be even be in the background and not on the panels). Rob Lucci's assassination of Iceburg guy was a pretty good plan for the objective that he wanted.


I only dislike Spandam for being a f**head, I was quite disappointed that Robin didn't break several of his limbs but I really don't want him dead of course. Hody receives his punishment from those pills, Akainu was used by BB to create another bigger monster and he has to deal with the huge consequences afterward.

I don't think people supposed to like Spandam, he was meant to be hate with his pettiness. Meaphe pointed out something that was I overlooked about Hody. Hody is a cheater lol. But of all of the villains, Hody's original plan was doom to fail since the start and may even jeopardize fishmen even more if he succeed. Once the drugs kick in, he would be too old and weak to led the fishmen. And they would pretty much consume by Big Mam or other forces.

MBVC
October 12, 2013, 08:45 PM
"I don't think people supposed to like Spandam, he was meant to be hate with his pettiness. Meaphe pointed out something that was I overlooked about Hody. Hody is a cheater lol. But of all of the villains, Hody's original plan was doom to fail since the start and may even jeopardize fishmen even more if he succeed. Once the drugs kick in, he would be too old and weak to led the fishmen. And they would pretty much consume by Big Mam or other forces."


I believe he tried to erase the WG out of its existence then he went after yonkou, of course he was both ignorant and arrogant about his strength, any admiral could defeat him with one only hit. Oh well, it seems like Hody caught the same disease as Arlong about fishmen being all time powerful.

Another character with both ignorant and arrogant was Eneru, because he stayed too far way from NW that he didn't really know how to be scared by real monsters living down below. Lol, he never thought there existed another being who was his natural enemy from the start. Honestly speaking, Eneru can reach admiral level if he learns how to use CoO and CoA properly, with enough long intensive training I even think Eneru > DD.

I'm not sure about the volcano vs lighting part (with a big assumption that Eneru can use both CoO and CoA), this is an open debate for future topic when Eneru returns back to the planet.

jimtors
October 13, 2013, 08:53 PM
DD is a good Villain since he's probably the only one that is not underestimating the SHs. And he's the only one that's been actually chasing the protagonists rather than being chased. and to top it all off, He is freakishly strong.lol

oh yet there's one more, He's subordinates believe like the SHs believe luffy to become the Pirate King!wow

M3J
October 13, 2013, 10:42 PM
I honestly prefer Akainu tbh.

I'm not sure if Akainu is a villain in classic sense. Though I suppose if villains are people who oppose the main characters no matter what affiliation, he could be considered one.

I think Doflamingo is one of the best villains so far. He's far more philosophical anyway, and I like it. I would love if he showed a more cruel, evil streak, but nothing like the Celestial Dragons. It's cool to see a charismatic villain who has loyal followers though, IMO it gives some sort of indication of what Luffy can do once he really masters or capitalizes on his conqueror's haki and personality.

FaustXIII
October 13, 2013, 11:53 PM
It's Akainu for me too.

BetaRuler
October 14, 2013, 12:21 AM
The thing I wonder about is why the different treatment between his crewmen and people like Bellamy or Disco-San'' who followed him loyally but then he suddenly abandoned them.

When it came to people like Baby-5, even though she attacked him, he let her go to rescue Caeser and even rescued their bodies later from the marines... (though as Shichibukai they would probably have been pardoned and released later anyway... maybe). Then with art lady too in the latest chapter...

But when it came to Disco and Bellamy he really treated them as nothing more than trash. Perhaps there's more to be revealed behind why he did treat some of them like trash and why his "crew" are treated as so much more special though... There's still a lot more secrets hiding behind that grin of DF's...

FaustXIII
October 14, 2013, 12:24 AM
I think most his crewmates are his slaves growing up as a tenryuubito he had many slaves. Then eventually he ran the slave auction house.

He treat them as slaves.

M3J
October 14, 2013, 12:42 AM
I'm not sure if he did treat Bellamy like crap considering Bellamy's still alive and has a chance to redeem himself. Bellamy is even taking up on that chance with no signs of anger towards Doflamingo, as far as I know or recall.

Razh
October 14, 2013, 02:41 AM
I think most his crewmates are his slaves growing up as a tenryuubito he had many slaves. Then eventually he ran the slave auction house.

He treat them as slaves.

Don't think so. Oda's drawing of him as a child shows him in rags. I think he never had the perks of Tenryuubito while he was growing up.

senadtm87
October 14, 2013, 11:50 AM
BB>DD , so NO!

REN KOUEN
October 15, 2013, 11:42 AM
That part bother me a bit. But I could make some sense out of Ace, if WhiteBeard didn't sacrifice himself, then maybe things will turn out for a different. What Akainu pretty much did was spitting on Whitebeard face when WhiteBeard is making the most selfless decision. And maybe because of Ace that they got into that mess in the first place, he felt that he had to do something. I supposed that is something in the spur of the moment and you can't think clearly because you are so clouded with your emotions. When Ace die, I recall a large portion of One Piece fans in mangahelpers were piss and felt that he die for no reason. I could understand that sentiment.

The whole Akainu and Aojiki dynamic is very interesting. In the overall picture, I still have trouble seeing Akainu as a villain like Magellan. But if he keeps up his good work on Marineford, I may change this opinion.
well techinically akainu and magellan are just doing their job

so i agree that they arent really villains

however i feel akainu will be a villain in the future

---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------


BB>DD , so NO!

overall BB will be the ultimate villain in this show

however i actually view blackbeard as just a true pirate

and he has not been the focus or the main villain of an arc yet

BB will have his day soon enough

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------


I'm not sure if he did treat Bellamy like crap considering Bellamy's still alive and has a chance to redeem himself. Bellamy is even taking up on that chance with no signs of anger towards Doflamingo, as far as I know or recall.

he definitely put bellamy in his place

but i believe DD is good to those who work for him and do their jobs well

look at how he reacted when law had that art lady hostage, he actually cares for his underlings

rampeg
October 15, 2013, 01:23 PM
the greatest villain ever in one piece is the "god" Enel.

FaustXIII
October 16, 2013, 12:38 AM
My ranking would be (so far)

1. Akainu
2. Eneru
3. Crocodile
4. Doflamingo
5. Blackbeard

Asarii
October 16, 2013, 01:46 AM
This may sound biased because Doflamingo is one of my favourite characters, but I really do think he's one of the most complex antagonists we've had so far.

At first he was shown pitting Bellamy and Sarkies against each other, which made people believe he's just like all the other villains... until we were shown several examples of how he actually cares for his subordinates later on. Even in the latest chapters, he was trying not to have Jora be harmed by Law. I find it interesting why he would be portrayed as a good leader all of a sudden. Perhaps there's a deeper meaning behind this?

His past is also something to take note: he was born a Tenryuubito who later discarded that status but somehow still has the same privileges as a pirate. If there's a flashback to his past, I think his will be the first where we get a glimpse into the childhood of a villain. It will hopefully answer why he stopped being a World Noble, why he seemed to have ended up on the streets, and why he holds the worldview he has. ("Only the strong survives" and "kids who know war and kids who don't have different values")

Blackbeard and Akainu are cool characters, but they're your typical villains with little to no redeeming qualities. With Doflamingo, I hate to label him as a "villain" because I think he's much more than that.

FetherMan
October 17, 2013, 04:49 AM
Crocodile was pretty bada**, I thought. Doflamingo hasn't been that interesting to me. I hope, Oda reveals Kaidou next year.

weixiaobao
May 09, 2015, 03:38 PM
In the discussion of Doflamingo, we got quite a variety of opinions. Some felt that he is the best thing coming out of Dressrosa. Others are disappointed. I recalled a disagreement with people like the ladylola, who get so upset over a fictional character that it hinder her enjoyment of those chapters (perhaps the flashback chapters). In this corner, ladylola thought DD is evil beyond redemption. Then there is a corner wishing why DD isn't a bad ass villain like Lucci or Enel, why is Oda trying to make us empathize with him via a sob story.

Dressrosa had highs and lows and most fans are disappointed generally. But Doflamingo had been mostly a high point to me.

I think we should have known where Oda's route in term of DD the character by the time he revealed DD's epithet. This commonly translate into Heavenly Demon. Demon of course is such a broad term.

But Yaksha is not a broad term like demon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaksha


In Hindu, Jain, and Buddhist texts, the yakṣa has a dual personality. On the one hand, a yakṣa may be an inoffensive nature-fairy, associated with woods and mountains; but there is also a darker version of the yakṣa, which is a kind of ghost (bhuta) that haunts the wilderness and waylays and devours travelers, similar to the rakṣasas.

I have heard term like Yaksha through out my childhood but I don't know the distinction until I came to known the work of Jin Yong's Demi Gods Semi Devils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demi-Gods_and_Semi-Devils

In this particular work, using the 8 demi gods/semi devils (including Yaksa) as a mold, many characters either have similar personality, background story, and or plot as these figures. (Ashura is also one of the eight but Zoro does not have such an epithet).


Dạ Xoa: (Yaksha) quỷ thần (thần ăn được quỉ), có thể tốt hoặc xấu.

From my own language here, Yaksha has characteristics of both deity and demon, and the duality of both good and evil. Interesting enough, the speech about good and evil at Marineford came from Doflamingo. And perhaps, Doflamingo had one of the most complex past of a One Piece villain. His past had not justify any of his actions, but rather give the readers a closer look to his psyche and motivation. There is always a duality to DD, the way he treats Monet and Vergo. Or even his reaction when Trebol went down. It certainly believable of Oda's portray DD's reaction to Rocinante and what DD's perceive as a betrayal. And then there is of course, this little respect of human's lives, slavery, and what not.

Oda had many different sort of villains. Each to me very unique. Magellan and Hannibal were the good guys with justice on their side. Enel the epitome of crazy and delusional (love Enel). Blackbeard, the risk taker, who would threw the world in chaos just to climb the ladder of power. Lucci, the cold and calculated. Lucci really push the button when he flooded the underwater passage to play mind game with Luffy. Arlong, a monster created by injustice who buy into the system that oppress him in the first place. Hody of pure hatred. And now, we have a Doflamingo the Ten Yaksha in the mix.