[Round 1 - Team 5 vs Team 8 Doubles 1] Yayguu/Krauser vs Date/Ishida G.

[Kaoz]

Doubles 1	Yagyuu Hiroshi Liliadent Krauser	Date Danji Ishida Gin
Title	Gentleman Iceman	- Shihan
School	Rikkai Dai Fuzoku 3rd Year Nagoya Seitoku 1st Year	High School 3rd Year Shitenhouji 3rd Year
Height	177 cm 186 cm	??? 189 cm
Weight	64 kg 73 kg	??? 82 kg
Dominant Hand	Right Right	Left Left
Playstyle	Serve and Volley Aggressive Baseliner	Aggressive Baseliner Aggressive Baseliner
Techniques	Laser Beam Curved Laser Hopping Ball Southern Cross	Danji no Haru Danji no Natsu 108 Styles of Hadokyuu Hadokyuu Canceller

Serve order: Krauser -> Date -> Yagyuu -> Ishida


This round ends on Wednesday, September 19th 8 PM GMT.

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!​

 

[LetalHawk]

My vote goes to Date/Gin. Krauser lost to Nakagauchi, Nakagauchi was destroyed by Date, Krauser won't have any chance against him. Yagyuu has no hope of returning Gin's Hadoukyuus, and Date can use Danji No Natsu and send them flying, or crush Yagyuu with Danji No Haru. Neither Krauser or Yagyuu have the physical abilities to face Date (like Kawamura, who is physically stronger) and enough power to return Gin's Hadoukyuus, even if Krauser has a 5 in power, Gin's power is much greater. So, Danji No Haru/anatsu, and Gin's Hadoukyuus, make Date/Gin pair the clear winner. Yagyuu and Krauser would get KOe'd in the match. Date/Gin pair win 6-0 or 6-1.

 

[Ninomiya]

LOL, Krauser is just Power and nothing else.
Up against Two Power Players better than he is.

Points can only come from the Lasers.
Yagyuu fights a battle by himself since the Southern Cross and will be met with Summer of Danji.
Date/Gin will win 6-1.

I'm trying to look at this from different angles, but since Krauser is 2 in everything but Power, and he is up against Date and Gin,
as excellent as Yagyuu is, they just cannot win.

Disappointing one. Would suck as a match to watch.

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

My vote goes to Date/Gin. Krauser lost to Nakagauchi, Nakagauchi was destroyed by Date, Krauser won't have any chance against him. Yagyuu has no hope of returning Gin's Hadoukyuus, and Date can use Danji No Natsu and send them flying, or crush Yagyuu with Danji No Haru. Neither Krauser or Yagyuu have the physical abilities to face Date (like Kawamura, who is physically stronger) and enough power to return Gin's Hadoukyuus, even if Krauser has a 5 in power, Gin's power is much greater. So, Danji No Haru/anatsu, and Gin's Hadoukyuus, make Date/Gin pair the clear winner. Yagyuu and Krauser would get KOe'd in the match. Date/Gin pair win 6-0 or 6-1.

I don't think Yagyuu would necessarily be KO'd. Yagyuu could definetely do something.
Curving Laser like Habu is a sudden swerve on the ball's path so it should seal Hadoukyuu.
Yagyuu should be able to take points.

 

[Fayte]

I think Krauser brings the team down, so Yagyuu would have to hold his own against two power players which I don't think he could. Yagyuu would be able to take either one of them in my opinion, but not both of them. Gin/Date wins.

 

[FuRinKaZan]

I don't want to write the same than the others (LetalHawk, Airgrimes). Just a easy 6-0 for "Amazing"Date and Gin

 

[Kaoz]

I disagree with this being an easy victory for the power side.

For starters, both Gin and Date are pretty slow, so they would fall prey to Laser Beam/Curved Laser, as well as the occasional Hopping Ball (and at least Gin doesn't have Nakagauchi like endurance). On the flipside, Yagyuu and Krauser should have at least enough power to not completely lose in that area, so it's not like they'll collapse when looked at funny. Gin seems like a greater liability than Krauser here tbh.

 

[LetalHawk]

I disagree with this being an easy victory for the power side.

For starters, both Gin and Date are pretty slow, so they would fall prey to Laser Beam/Curved Laser, as well as the occasional Hopping Ball (and at least Gin doesn't have Nakagauchi like endurance). On the flipside, Yagyuu and Krauser should have at least enough power to not completely lose in that area, so it's not like they'll collapse when looked at funny. Gin seems like a greater liability than Krauser here tbh.

The problem is that Date with his Danji No Natsu and Haru would kill Krauser and Yagyuu. Nakagauchi resisted when Krauser did the Southern Cross many times, and he was completely destroyed when he crashed against the fence because of Danji No Haru. Date uses that and game over, also, neither Yagyuu or Krauser have the same endurance as Kawamura and Kabaji. As soon as Date hits one of his techniques, game over.

 

[Ninomiya]

I disagree with this being an easy victory for the power side.

For starters, both Gin and Date are pretty slow, so they would fall prey to Laser Beam/Curved Laser, as well as the occasional Hopping Ball (and at least Gin doesn't have Nakagauchi like endurance). On the flipside, Yagyuu and Krauser should have at least enough power to not completely lose in that area, so it's not like they'll collapse when looked at funny. Gin seems like a greater liability than Krauser here tbh.

Why does Gin seem like greater liablity?
108th Hadoukyuu can be hit as a serve too.

I said that Yagyuu will take points from it.
But if Hopping Ball is about Power, Date and Gin have that. Date and Gin should be able to survive that shot since Date is stronger than Nakagauchi.
This round is disappointingly easy.

I don't think however Yagyuu will be destroyed. Yagyuu in Singles will defeat Gin definetely in Singles, but against Date I don't know but Curving Laser initially seals off The Power shots that have been said to require big swings and preparation to hit.

So Yagyuu is the only guy taking points. In Doubles, Hopping Ball loses its effectiveness. Two Baseliners stand at the baseline making the shot easier to return.
Krauser holds Yagyuu back.

LOL, Krauser and Yagyuu shouldn't completely lose in the Power area? To Gin who is equal to Kawamura? and Date who overpowered Kawamura? I hope I interpreted it wrong.

 

[Tsukihime no uta]

I would put Yagyuu around nioh level, since he did beat him in a tie-break, which would make him prolly the best singles player out of these current 4. The fact that he knows nioh inside and out, was the reason why he beat him, but it still takes alot for Yagyuu to beat a Nioh that at the time of their match had moves all the way up to tezuka minus the zss.
These facts were just to show that yagyuu is at a high level, maybe high enough even for G10 if nioh can make it.

From all this, I would say that he would definitely not be defeated even by two big power players if it was at least singles. But overall, since this is doubles, it depends on how much krauser holds the team back. And unfortunately most of agree that krauser hasnt shown that he is at the level of all the other players since his only matches were losses to kirihara and nakaguchi. There was that win to sakata, but that guy is just a laughing stock. semi-pun intended.

 

[-Ken-]

Yagyuu was equal to Niou that wasn't even using Illusion. That Niou got dominated by 5th counter Fuji. I just don't look at him that high.

 

[Fayte]

Yagyuu was equal to Niou that wasn't even using Illusion. That Niou got dominated by 5th counter Fuji. I just don't look at him that high.

Then you completely missed the entire purpose for those tie break matches. It was supposed to show us that the winners of those matches were better, and the losers needed training to improve. Yagyuu absolutely did not "fluke" his victory. Even if Niou used illusions at that point in the series, Yagyuu would have still won. It isn't about techniques, it is about who is better. Yagyuu was not "equal" to Niou, he was better, and nobody has any evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[Ninomiya]

Yagyuu was equal to Niou that wasn't even using Illusion. That Niou got dominated by 5th counter Fuji. I just don't look at him that high.

Yeah they weren't equal. Yagyuu was holding back the Curving Laser the whole time.
It was Niou who was all flustered during the tie-break. Yagyuu was pretty calm during the whole thing.
They weren't equal.
Yagyuu is higher than most actually. Nobody in Rikkai is weak in Singles except maybe Jackal.

 

[-Ken-]

Yeah they weren't equal. Yagyuu was holding back the Curving Laser the whole time.
It was Niou who was all flustered during the tie-break. Yagyuu was pretty calm during the whole thing.
They weren't equal.
Yagyuu is higher than most actually. Nobody in Rikkai is weak in Singles except maybe Jackal.

And..? Niou wasn't using Illusion for the whole match. That's his single strongest techniques. It's a techniques so powerful that he can turn game around when he's playing Fuji. The basic Niou is so weak that it's simply a joke. Show me any proof that Niou without Illusion is high tier material. I don't think he is. Yagyuu beating Niou without Illusion is not a feat. Since Niou without Illusion is simply crap. Yagyuu, from all of his match, only show;

-He struggle with golden pair without syncho
-He dominated nameless players with Momoshiro
-He beat Niou WITHOUT Illusion

I'm just not seeing it. If Niou's not using Illusion, then I'm not giving Yagyuu free pass for "beating" it. I just don't see him that high. I highly doubt Yagyuu can beat Tezuka with Pinnacle of Wisdom and Hard Work. Niou's probably can't using Illusion because he had to "set up" when he's playing Fuji by losing 3 games straight. It just means that he improved now that he can use Illusion from the start of his match. He only have a tiebreak back then. That's my theory on it anyways. And I think Yagyuu being high tier base only on those 3 match is just something I don't see. Tell me if I miss something, but I can't derive Yagyuu=High tier from those 3 matches. I just can't. Before you use the last one as example again, like I said, Niou without Illusion suck. He's not high tier material at all.

@Fayte; My evidence is simply Niou doesn't use his technique. That's my evidence. Show me evidence that prove your point, too.

Yagyuu, from what I see, simply didn't beat Niou at Niou's peak. And Yagyuu right now doesn't show any improvement from back then. But since then, Niou grows stronger. I don't think he is at Niou level anymore.

 

[Fayte]

Yagyuu, from what I see, simply didn't beat Niou at Niou's peak. And Yagyuu right now doesn't show any improvement from back then. But since then, Niou grows stronger. I don't think he is at Niou level anymore.

First of all, you do know that Niou's illusion is just that, right? An illusion? An illusion requires someone to be fooled by it. Who is to say Niou is even ABLE to use the illusion transformation technique on Yagyuu? Yagyuu knows Niou better than anybody, and if anybody would see through Niou's tricks, it would be him. I would assume Niou wouldn't even be able to transform into Tezuka because Yagyuu would see through it.

Also, the only reason you're saying Yagyuu doesn't show improvement is because Yagyuu doesn't show period. He has not had the spotlight yet, whereas Niou did. Just because Niou improved and you're all excited doesn't mean Yagyuu won't still be better when he gets his time to shine.

 

[-Ken-]

First of all, you do know that Niou's illusion is just that, right? An illusion? An illusion requires someone to be fooled by it. Who is to say Niou is even ABLE to use the illusion transformation technique on Yagyuu? Yagyuu knows Niou better than anybody, and if anybody would see through Niou's tricks, it would be him. I would assume Niou wouldn't even be able to transform into Tezuka because Yagyuu would see through it.

Also, the only reason you're saying Yagyuu doesn't show improvement is because Yagyuu doesn't show period. He has not had the spotlight yet, whereas Niou did. Just because Niou improved and you're all excited doesn't mean Yagyuu won't still be better when he gets his time to shine.

Yeah, but for NOW, as in right now. Niou IS stronger than Yagyuu from what we see so far. And so what if Yagyuu beat JUST Niou and fail to beat anyone else. So he's kinda like how Inui before when Inui lost to Kirihara and can fight evenly with Yanagi. It's the same thing. I won't use that to say that Yagyuu is strong, unfortunate as that may be. So Yagyuu get an ability "beat Niou", but that doesn't show that his stat is high.

 

[Hardy]

First of all, you do know that Niou's illusion is just that, right? An illusion? An illusion requires someone to be fooled by it.

First time I read something like this...
It's not just an Illusion, he's actually able to do Tezuka, Shiraishi, Ryoma, and almost anyone else techs. He is really able to do ZS, ZSS, TZ...

BUT I agree with you, Yagyuu probably is still better than Niou, he needs some screen time.

 

[FuRinKaZan]

First of all, you do know that Niou's illusion is just that, right? An illusion? An illusion requires someone to be fooled by it. Who is to say Niou is even ABLE to use the illusion transformation technique on Yagyuu? Yagyuu knows Niou better than anybody, and if anybody would see through Niou's tricks, it would be him. I would assume Niou wouldn't even be able to transform into Tezuka because Yagyuu would see through it.

Also, the only reason you're saying Yagyuu doesn't show improvement is because Yagyuu doesn't show period. He has not had the spotlight yet, whereas Niou did. Just because Niou improved and you're all excited doesn't mean Yagyuu won't still be better when he gets his time to shine.

I agree with you absolutely, i said the same in a spanish forum, months ago. That is the reason of Niou skill, Illusion, he fools someone, we need to remember, against yagyuu or fuji, he was "exposed" by fuji and in yagyuu match, he knows him better than anybody like you said. so, for me Yagyuu > Niou.

 

[Kaoz]

The problem is that Date with his Danji No Natsu and Haru would kill Krauser and Yagyuu. Nakagauchi resisted when Krauser did the Southern Cross many times, and he was completely destroyed when he crashed against the fence because of Danji No Haru. Date uses that and game over, also, neither Yagyuu or Krauser have the same endurance as Kawamura and Kabaji. As soon as Date hits one of his techniques, game over.

Possibly. We only saw the last shot, but he might have hit more than that one throughout the match. It's a fair point though and I will admit that this mostly relies on abusing Date's apparent speed problems to take him out of the match and concentrate the attack on Gin.

Why does Gin seem like greater liablity?
108th Hadoukyuu can be hit as a serve too.

How often though before Gin's arm is destroyed? Kawamura didn't want to use it except as last resort, so I would think Gin is in a similar situation.

I said that Yagyuu will take points from it.
But if Hopping Ball is about Power, Date and Gin have that. Date and Gin should be able to survive that shot since Date is stronger than Nakagauchi.
This round is disappointingly easy.

Whether Date survives it is not that relevant as long as he can kill Gin with it. A doubles match ends when one of the players can't continue, so taking out Gin would be enough. Also, this.

I don't think however Yagyuu will be destroyed. Yagyuu in Singles will defeat Gin definetely in Singles, but against Date I don't know but Curving Laser initially seals off The Power shots that have been said to require big swings and preparation to hit.

I don't think we ever see a clear swinging motion for Danji no Haru/Natsu, but I believe we concluded that it is somewhat similar to HB and Southern Cross, which do have a pretty big swing, so...

So Yagyuu is the only guy taking points. In Doubles, Hopping Ball loses its effectiveness. Two Baseliners stand at the baseline making the shot easier to return.
Krauser holds Yagyuu back.

Them standing at the baseline will also make drop shots and the like more effective (with which we're back at the speed issue and remember that Yagyuu is a S&V) and their power shots less threatening since they can at least be avoided. If one of them moves up, they have to deal with Curved Laser.

Also as I said, I can definitely see HB damaging Gin and I don't think he's as agile as Nakagauchi was, so it'd be harder to dodge.

LOL, Krauser and Yagyuu shouldn't completely lose in the Power area? To Gin who is equal to Kawamura? and Date who overpowered Kawamura? I hope I interpreted it wrong.

Krauser had a 5 in power. I doubt that Gin or Kawamura had more than a 6 at the time of the team shuffle, possibly less. So no, he doesn't lose in power. Yagyuu is a different thing, but I'd expect him to be able to at least deal with the base shots and lower level Hadokyuus.

Date potentially does overpower them, but I think I touched on that matter enough before.

From all this, I would say that he would definitely not be defeated even by two big power players if it was at least singles. But overall, since this is doubles, it depends on how much krauser holds the team back. And unfortunately most of agree that krauser hasnt shown that he is at the level of all the other players since his only matches were losses to kirihara and nakaguchi. There was that win to sakata, but that guy is just a laughing stock. semi-pun intended.

Pointing at the same page as before, Nakagauchi was just a terrible opponent for Krauser to play against. He's not high tier or anything, but I'd put him at around Gin's level overall.

 

[Ninomiya]

How often though before Gin's arm is destroyed? Kawamura didn't want to use it except as last resort, so I would think Gin is in a similar situation.

Fair enough, but High Level Hadoukyuus should allow Gin to return the Southern Cross.
I mean, Devil Kirihara had to have been eventually returning HB. I know Kirihara > Gin, but he definetely isnt stronger physically than Gin.

Whether Date survives it is not that relevant as long as he can kill Gin with it. A doubles match ends when one of the players can't continue, so taking out Gin would be enough. Also, this.

Gin must be able to handle whatever Krauser throws at him.
If Kirihara was able to handle HB and be returning the shots, then Gin should be able to.
Also, Krausers technique is a 2. I have a strong feeling Gin's technique is above 2 and that his Power stat is 5 or above.

I don't think we ever see a clear swinging motion for Danji no Haru/Natsu, but I believe we concluded that it is somewhat similar to HB and Southern Cross, which do have a pretty big swing, so...

This just as I already said. Yagyuu can seal off Power shots when he hits the Curving Laser.

Them standing at the baseline will also make drop shots and the like more effective (with which we're back at the speed issue and remember that Yagyuu is a S&V) and their power shots less threatening since they can at least be avoided. If one of them moves up, they have to deal with Curved Laser.

So like I said, its Yagyuu taking the points.

Also as I said, I can definitely see HB damaging Gin and I don't think he's as agile as Nakagauchi was, so it'd be harder to dodge.

HB can be handled with technique. Gin must have technique. Maybe around Krauser's solid 3. Which isn't fairly good.

Here's Krauser once HB is handled.
His technique is poor, and HB is not unstoppable if you have the Power or the Technique, and between Date and Gin, I think both of them do.

It's Southern Cross that could damage Gin, but then again, why can't 80th Hadoukyuu or something damage Krauser?
I don't see Krauser physically stronger than Kawamura and Gin level.

Pointing at the same page as before, Nakagauchi was just a terrible opponent for Krauser to play against. He's not high tier or anything, but I'd put him at around Gin's level overall.

Krauser is nothing besides power. Kirihara showed us a little speed is all you need to kill him.
Or just being able to handle the HB and this guy cannot win.
Nakagauchi VS Krauser just showed us again that if HB/Souther Cross isn't doing the job he can't do anything else.

Gin is better overall, Krauser's special shot cannot be used as a serve.
Here's Krauser once HB is handled.

LOL Nakagauchi has just a 2.5 in Speed and he could dodge HB. The Hadoukyuus don't require a long time to ''create the opponents grave post'' and all either.

And..? Niou wasn't using Illusion for the whole match. That's his single strongest techniques. It's a techniques so powerful that he can turn game around when he's playing Fuji. The basic Niou is so weak that it's simply a joke. Show me any proof that Niou without Illusion is high tier material. I don't think he is. Yagyuu beating Niou without Illusion is not a feat. Since Niou without Illusion is simply crap. Yagyuu, from all of his match, only show;

Yagyuu did it comfortably however.
He held back the whole match.

-He struggle with golden pair without syncho
-He dominated nameless players with Momoshiro
-He beat Niou WITHOUT Illusion

Actually it was with Kaidoh,
This was back in Regionals. During Regionals, Golden Pair were still an awesome combination.

I'm just not seeing it. If Niou's not using Illusion, then I'm not giving Yagyuu free pass for "beating" it. I just don't see him that high. I highly doubt Yagyuu can beat Tezuka with Pinnacle of Wisdom and Hard Work. Niou's probably can't using Illusion because he had to "set up" when he's playing Fuji by losing 3 games straight. It just means that he improved now that he can use Illusion from the start of his match. He only have a tiebreak back then. That's my theory on it anyways. And I think Yagyuu being high tier base only on those 3 match is just something I don't see. Tell me if I miss something, but I can't derive Yagyuu=High tier from those 3 matches. I just can't. Before you use the last one as example again, like I said, Niou without Illusion suck. He's not high tier material at all.

@Fayte; My evidence is simply Niou doesn't use his technique. That's my evidence. Show me evidence that prove your point, too.

Yagyuu, from what I see, simply didn't beat Niou at Niou's peak. And Yagyuu right now doesn't show any improvement from back then. But since then, Niou grows stronger. I don't think he is at Niou level anymore.

Do you think Kaidoh is high tier?
Since Yagyuu > Kaidoh.
All depends on where you draw the line on the term high tier.

 

[-Ken-]

Yagyuu did it comfortably however.
He held back the whole match.

By using a curved shot? I don't think that curved shot= ZSS, ZSD, Pinnacle of Great Wisdom and Hard Work, or even Bible Tennis. Maybe it's just me. And as I stated before. Even if illusion doesn't work against Yagyuu, that just mean Yagyuu is good at beating Niou. Doesn't mean he's good at beating the rest of the player that Niou can now fight by using Illusion, at all.

Actually it was with Kaidoh,
This was back in Regionals. During Regionals, Golden Pair were still an awesome combination.

Yeah, with Kaidoh. I remember that wrong. Sorry about that. Golden Pair is actually a failure team that just hardly win prior to Syncho.

Do you think Kaidoh is high tier?
Since Yagyuu > Kaidoh.
All depends on where you draw the line on the term high tier.

I certainly think higher than Yagyuu.

Tornado Snake> Curved Laser and Gryo Laser> Laser

I know there's argument about Yagyuu base stat being higher before, but now that I look at the whole thing, I just don't think so. Find me a page that show otherwise.