[Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

[Kaoz]

Singles 1	Yukimura Seiichi	Tooyama Kintarou
Title	Child of God	Super Rookie of the West
School	Rikkai Dai Fuzoku 3rd Year	Shitenhouji 1st Year
Height	175 cm	151 cm
Weight	61 kg	52 kg
Dominant Hand	Right	Right
Playstyle	All Rounder	Aggressive Baseliner
Techniques	Yips	Super Megaton Wonder Deluxe Yama Funka Serve Super Ultra Great Delicious Daishaarin Yama Arashi

Serve order: Tooyama -> Yukimura


This round ends on Saturday, October 6th 8 PM GMT.

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!​

 

[Hardy]

Yukimura wins this...

Do I have to explain it? He almost killed Kintarou in the Nationals lol

 

[Arcanix]

Yukimura. He absolutely crushed Tooyama at nationals, and he didn't even take his jacket off.

 

[LetalHawk]

Mmmm poor Kintarou. Yukimura ends the match in no time, he effortlessly returns that Funka serve plus Yama Arashi. 5 ball not enough to beat Yuki, he crushed Tooyama in the nationals without taking his jacket off,he will do it again. Kintarou is a helpless dude here.

Result: 6-0, no Yukimura wins the match in one point

 

[-Ken-]

Yukimura, from what we've seen, learned a new improve Yips.

Kintarou, on the other hand, learn Super Megaton Wonder Deluxe Yama Funka Serve, 5 balls at once, and creating multiple clones. As far as we know, Yukimura is only confirm to be able to do 2 balls at once.

I thin Yukimura will win, but the winning gap won't be as large as before. I think maybe 6-4 or something that line. I don't think this will be as one side as other people say it will be.

The only way that Kintarou can win this is that he obtain PoP, which he DO have chance, according to pair puri. This match lays entirely on that. But that is just assumption, and I don't really like using assumption for these kind of match. Although it seemed that some people clearly assume that some people would improve. In those cases, I don't see Kintarou losing this.

 

[LetalHawk]

Ken, are you serious on what you're saying? 6-4? The difference, that gap from nationals is still there, Kintarou improved but Yukimura also, and Nationals Yukimura would crush Kintarou, Kintarou won't take a single point from Yuki.

POP, no. He gets yipped and just forfeits, It's impossible Yuki will drop a point now against Kintarou.Also, remember POP is banned here, so Yukimura wins this in one point

 

[-Ken-]

Ken, are you serious on what you're saying? 6-4? The difference, that gap from nationals is still there, Kintarou improved but Yukimura also, and Nationals Yukimura would crush Kintarou, Kintarou won't take a single point from Yuki.

POP, no. He gets yipped and just forfeits, It's impossible Yuki will drop a point now against Kintarou.

In Shin, Kintarou improve a lot more than Yukimura. From the loser camp coach, # of balls hits tell a player ability. Kintarou=confirm 5 ball. Yukimura=confirm 2 ball. Yes, I'm serious.

Imagine this (all make up number)

PoT
Yukimura- 1000
Kintarou- 100

SPoT
Yukimura-1100 (Heck, seriously, we don't see that much improvement from him)
Kintarou- 600

It could even be something along these line. Kintarou earn a lot more upgrade than Yukimura. He have A LOT more chances to actually win some point now than before.

On PoP, read pair puri, then talk to me again. It's certainly a possibility. Not just "no".

 

[LetalHawk]

But as a rule in this tournament, POP is the only way for Kintarou to win, but it can't be used by any character, please Kintarou has no chance even if he can hit 5 balls abd a new serve, Yukimura sees through all of the moves, plus 5 balls isn't enough to beat him.

Right now he has no chance, by the end of Shin, then I'll agree with you but right now the result is the same as Nationals finals.

 

[-Ken-]

But as a rule in this tournament, POP is the only way for Kintarou to win, but it can't be used by any character, please Kintarou has no chance even if he can hit 5 balls abd a new serve, Yukimura sees through all of the moves, plus 5 balls isn't enough to beat him.

Right now he has no chance, by the end of Shin, then I'll agree with you but right now the result is the same as Nationals finals.

True. I forgot about that rule. Well, I think Yukimura will win in the first place, so that won't change my vote. But it does change the score that this match will be, though.

 

[Hardy]

In Shin, Kintarou improve a lot more than Yukimura. From the loser camp coach, # of balls hits tell a player ability. Kintarou=confirm 5 ball. Yukimura=confirm 2 ball. Yes, I'm serious.

Imagine this (all make up number)

PoT
Yukimura- 1000
Kintarou- 100

SPoT
Yukimura-1100 (Heck, seriously, we don't see that much improvement from him)
Kintarou- 600

It could even be something along these line. Kintarou earn a lot more upgrade than Yukimura. He have A LOT more chances to actually win some point now than before.

On PoP, read pair puri, then talk to me again. It's certainly a possibility. Not just "no".

Yukimura might be over 9000 right now.

 

[Phantron]

Yukimura has high base stats but you guys way overvalue them. Against #11 Yukimura is described as 'still MS level' in terms of basic rally. Sanada can rally with him basically perpetually before he got yips.

The only reason Yukimura wins is because he has basically psychic attacks which at this point only has two known counters. Sanada had the Black Aura before he can hit five balls at a time, suggesting at least the basic Black Aura isn't harder to learn than hitting five balls at a time. It wouldn't surprise me if they just flat out say "Anyone who can hit 10 balls at once is immune to yips" at some point. Given nothing of this sorts has been said you'll have to give the game to Yukimura, but hitting five balls is harder than the basic Black Aura which definitely is able to get you out of yips. Yes Yukimura has an upgraded version of the same techinque but then Kintaro's been improving too.

 

[FrostyMouse]

People, TnK is not a "reasonable improvement" even if it were allowed...

Kintarou has had some improvements, such as the addition of Yama Funka, being able to hit 5 at Once, and the clones, while Yuki gained Dream. Eventually, Yuki probably wins 7-5 or something, but if you give Kintarou some extra improvement, as our thing goes, I'll give it to Kintarou 7-5 because Yuki just has offensive problems and the clones give Kintarou a huge amount of flexibility.

 

[Phantron]

People, TnK is not a "reasonable improvement" even if it were allowed...

Kintarou has had some improvements, such as the addition of Yama Funka, being able to hit 5 at Once, and the clones, while Yuki gained Dream. Eventually, Yuki probably wins 7-5 or something, but if you give Kintarou some extra improvement, as our thing goes, I'll give it to Kintarou 7-5 because Yuki just has offensive problems and the clones give Kintarou a huge amount of flexibility.

Kintaro had the clone thing back when he was playing against Ryoma. It's just a way of showing how he's extremely fast to the point even if you have illusion of multiple balls he can just chase down every one of the illusions with sheer speed.

While there are only two known counters to Yukimura's 'psychic' type abilities, it's not like you'd expect someone like Tokugawa to just keel over against yips/dream. Yet Tokugawa hasn't done anything besides hitting 10 balls at once thus far. You've to assume someone who can hit 10 balls at a time must not be easily affected by yips or you might as well say Yukimura will never lose against any of the G10, even though Shuuji doesn't even seem particularly impressed by Tezuka who is way ahead of the rest of the middle schooler now.

Now we know Kintaro can hit 5 balls at once but we don't know if he can do better than 5 (seems likely, but never shown), so his power level is uncertain at this point, but using Sanada's progression (broke out of yips momentarily with basic Black Aura before he can hit 5 balls at once), it is likely he'll be able to develop resistance to it because he can hit 5 balls at once. Given Kintaro is described as basically infinite endurance, if he breaks out of yips then you'd just have perpetual rallies (Kintaro had a 40 minute rally with Ryoma before) and it seems like Kintaro will eventually win due to his superior base endurance even if none of his special techniques work.

I give the game to Yukimura due to the uncertainty of how to translate certain aspects to yips resistance but there's no way yips equates to auto-win in POT when you're dealing with 5-ball hitting guys.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Kintaro had the clone thing back when he was playing against Ryoma. It's just a way of showing how he's extremely fast to the point even if you have illusion of multiple balls he can just chase down every one of the illusions with sheer speed.

While there are only two known counters to Yukimura's 'psychic' type abilities, it's not like you'd expect someone like Tokugawa to just keel over against yips/dream. Yet Tokugawa hasn't done anything besides hitting 10 balls at once thus far. You've to assume someone who can hit 10 balls at a time must not be easily affected by yips or you might as well say Yukimura will never lose against any of the G10, even though Shuuji doesn't even seem particularly impressed by Tezuka who is way ahead of the rest of the middle schooler now.

Now we know Kintaro can hit 5 balls at once but we don't know if he can do better than 5 (seems likely, but never shown), so his power level is uncertain at this point, but using Sanada's progression (broke out of yips momentarily with basic Black Aura before he can hit 5 balls at once), it is likely he'll be able to develop resistance to it because he can hit 5 balls at once. Given Kintaro is described as basically infinite endurance, if he breaks out of yips then you'd just have perpetual rallies (Kintaro had a 40 minute rally with Ryoma before) and it seems like Kintaro will eventually win due to his superior base endurance even if none of his special techniques work.

I give the game to Yukimura due to the uncertainty of how to translate certain aspects to yips resistance but there's no way yips equates to auto-win in POT when you're dealing with 5-ball hitting guys.

The clones improved though. Against Echizen, it was just a bunch of clones to deal with the illusion of Abare Dama, but against Hakamada, he covers the court with the them in a move I like to call "Swarming the Court."

There's not enough evidence about how 5 at Once works to make an estimation on all of that.

In SPoT, Yuki no longer has enough offense to hit the ball past the high level players , such as how Fuwa was returning every ball easily, so it's not as if he'll blast anything by people, but they still need to get balls past him consistently. I believe 10 at Once people crush Yuki, but 5 at Once people, it's not that clear.

 

[Fayte]

This match already happened. It ended with Kintarou laying prostrate on the floor.

 

[LetalHawk]

Mmmm people are just giving too much hype to Kintarou's improvement.

By now he can hit 5 balls, but Yukimura also can, even if it wasn't shown he returned Samurai Drive, 2 balls going at different directions, and that's much harder than hitting 3 at the same time that are coming at you. Yukimura gained the dreams, and Kintarou Yama Funka and the 5 balls power-up.

If the ranking system is correct, and Yukimura owned Fuwa who is stronger than Hakamada, then Kintarou stands no chance against him. The result, obviously, will be the same as the one in national finals, Kintarou kneeling down after being destroyed. Kintarou's shots are useless against Yukimura, Yama Funka is like Yama Arashi, he had clone technique before, and 5 balls won't be enough for Kintarou. Also, he will get instantly yipped and forfeit the match, seriously, his mental is 0. 0, while Ryoma and Sanada probably have 5 mental, he won't resist that much and fail.

 

[Ninomiya]

In SPoT, Yuki no longer has enough offense to hit the ball past the high level players , such as how Fuwa was returning every ball easily, so it's not as if he'll blast anything by people, but they still need to get balls past him consistently. I believe 10 at Once people crush Yuki, but 5 at Once people, it's not that clear.

We don't know the difficulty Fuwa was having in returning his shots. We only know he was returning some, and he felt he had to take off his blindfold.
It's not to say Yuki was pushed into a corner at any state in the match.
Secondly, It's not to say we have seen Yuki pushed into a corner against somebody without TMnK in this series yet. So although I see 10-at-once doing damage, I doubt Yuki would get ''crushed''.

--------------------------------

Secondly, I would say hitting 5 at once, isn't that big of a deal.
Akutsu can do it. So you're now saying Akutsu > Yuki due to 5-ball return?

Sanada can do 5 at once, but it was BA that means he can fight Yuki properly. And has the chance of winning.

Kintaro can hit 5 at once and has clones. But its not as if Super Megaton affected Yuki even slightly. It's not a move that can even phase High Level players.
Hakamada pissed on Yama Funka Serve.

I'm sorry but just 5 at once shouldn't be enough to touch Yukimura. Considering Tanishi has 4 at once. So you could be saying Yuki only just edges over Tanishi in a match.
Its the 10 at once I can understand.

Considering the manga says Yuki can see through special offensive shots, I'm not sure why people mentioned them.

And why are people comparing Kintaro to Sanada?
Sanada began SPoT significantly stronger than Kintaro, and improved significantly more than Kintaro.

Despite Yukimura and Ryoma being titled as the Top of the Middle School Tennis World in PP5 which is whilst the Losers had even returned, I don't know how Yuki has suddenly become weak in a few people's eyes.
The guy is strong.

---------- Post added at 11:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------

LOL, Yuki took points off of an un-yipped Sanada too.
I wouldn't go as far as to say he can't take points off High tier players.
I wouldnt go as far as to say he has a bad offense either.

This could be a shut-out since 5-ball return doesn't prevent Kintaro from getting Yipped. Come on... just five? When we've seen guys hit 10?
Considering Sanada has BA + 5ball return, I wouldn't even entertain 5ball return must mean you can overcome Yips.

Otherwise Konomi wouldn't have made BA in the first place.
Hahaa comparing Sanada to Kintaro lol.

 

[LetalHawk]

@Airgrimes, simple words. This match is a joke, and nobody understands that Yukimura is still among the top, for god's sake, Kintarou's helpless here.

 

[Ninomiya]

I don't even think he is as helpless as Nationals, but 5ball + Clones doesn't suddenly throw you up the tier ranking when you're that high up on it.

 

[ashore]

Yukimura has high base stats but you guys way overvalue them. Against #11 Yukimura is described as 'still MS level' in terms of basic rally. Sanada can rally with him basically perpetually before he got yips.

The only reason Yukimura wins is because he has basically psychic attacks which at this point only has two known counters. Sanada had the Black Aura before he can hit five balls at a time, suggesting at least the basic Black Aura isn't harder to learn than hitting five balls at a time. It wouldn't surprise me if they just flat out say "Anyone who can hit 10 balls at once is immune to yips" at some point. Given nothing of this sorts has been said you'll have to give the game to Yukimura, but hitting five balls is harder than the basic Black Aura which definitely is able to get you out of yips. Yes Yukimura has an upgraded version of the same techinque but then Kintaro's been improving too.

MS level is just opinion. since we 've seen atobe/niou doubles match. not all HSers are better than MSers. when MSers beat HSers, then wat.

konomi gave yukimura too STRONG powers. so he wins. I'm not saying kintaro sucks, i bet he returned all of yuki's balls in pot1, but yuki had to stop his azzz.