[Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

[-Ken-]

I don't know, but I think Echizen can really deal with the move just fine. He return Kinchan's storm move, didn't he? That move is more dangerous than the move that broke the spotlight. His hand is fine after he hit it. And no, I don't think he return it with PoP.

 

[Ninomiya]

@Phantron Lol I know the rules. I remember trying to tell you to read them back in Tezuka VS Fuji thread. I'm glad you've grasped the rules of the tournament now.

And listen, if a player has a high enough level technique in this series, he can return the Power shot.
Ryoga and Byoudouin.

Byoudouin hits a casual serve effortlessly and shatters a wall. Ryoga arrives and casually hits it back at Byoudouin.
This doesn't mean Ryoga has immense power at all. It more likely means he has amazing technique.

I don't think it is impossible for BJK to be returned. We can assume that Ryoma overcame Ryoma at the Nationals when Atobe and Sanada go to recover his memories. So since there are people on here who believe they are of a similar concept, I don't see why Ryoma shouldn't be able to handle BJK.

I don't think we have ever seen a head-on Power VS Technique Singles match in the series yet.
All we saw was Tanishi VS Ryoma, and Ryoma was trolling for most of the match we find out. He didn't use Technique to try and return it.

Kawamura, Ishida. G, Ishida. T, Tanishi, Kabaji(Mirror so doesn't count so well), Date, Duke and Ban.
We haven't seen these guys take on a technique man head-on in Singles. These are the only known Power Players.

So I don't think we should rule out Ryoma handling BJK at least. I mean, Momoshiro can use it.
secondly, Ryoma has already has ass-kicked. I doubt Ryoma is the type to get his ass-kicked twice.

Especially after people were on here with stuff like ''WoK'' can't lose twice. Why should Ryoma of all people?

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

I don't know, but I think Echizen can really deal with the move just fine. He return Kinchan's storm move, didn't he? That move is more dangerous than the move that broke the spotlight. His hand is fine after he hit it. And no, I don't think he return it with PoP.

Precisely. If Kaji had the technique to have made Oni need something more than BJK, then Ryoma almost certainly has the technique.

 

[Phantron]

whats our opinion on rai or super mountain ultra mega storm?

how did you arrive to this: Right now we have a rather unique problem in that there are NO tech moves that can overcome a 10-baller tier character.

is it because they are highly skilled and able to return all tech moves ( assumed?)

Super mountain ultra mega storm looks like a pure power move. It probably has a high inherent rating for power, but since Oni presumably can return it even from Kintarou (he defeated Kintarou, after all), so he can still return it fine from Ryoma. Similarly the power aspect of Rai would have no effect on Oni because it's hard seeing even Sanada overpowering Oni with sheer power. The tech aspect of Rai could be useful, but since Yukimura can return it with basic rally and his rally level is described as 'still MS level' so any 10-baller should be able to do the same thing.

G6 said Mach Serve isn't a hard serve to return, implying he and anyone above can return Mach Serve quite easily. That pretty much eliminates almost all tech moves from being a threat to 10-baller. Mach Serve required Atobe Kingdom to return, which is clearly a top tech move, and I think only Phantom and Zero Serve are on par with Atobe Kingdom in the list of moves we know so far. Zero Serve is the most likely move that'll work on a 10-baller and still copyable (though it's also never been copied by Muga), but we know Zero Serve hurts yourself very badly for using it.

Undoubtedly the top tier players themselves must possess tech moves that can beat a 10-baller but we have yet to see them so there's nothing to copy tech-wise at moment.

 

[Fayte]

Premise 1: If it has no plot, then it's an unofficial match.

Premise 2: If it is an unofficial match, then Echizen can lose.

Premise 3: If Echizen can lose, then Echizen will lose.

Oni wins.

 

[ashore]

well... i voted for oni personally but i dont want to have echizen seem defeneless and that he really had a chance.
well echizen's team may not advance to the next round.

my predictions
hirakoba rin wins... team score: 1-0
akutsu/kawamura wins team score: 1-1
echizen-oni Decisivie match ?oni wins team score: 2-1

i mean if echizen advances... he'll either always win(vs non G10) or always lose to G10 .

and if he wins, and faces another U-17 G10, we'll always argue about muga and how echizen may use them or not.
True or false.?

 

[LetalHawk]

well... i voted for oni personally but i dont want to have echizen seem defeneless and that he really had a chance.
well echizen's team may not advance to the next round.

my predictions
hirakoba rin wins... team score: 1-0
akutsu/kawamura wins team score: 1-1
echizen-oni Decisivie match ?oni wins team score: 2-1

i mean if echizen advances... he'll either always win(vs non G10) or always lose to G10 .

and if he wins, and faces another U-17 G10, we'll always argue about muga and how echizen may use them or not.
True or false.?

Well, and improvements, Echizen could perfectly defeat from G-10 to G-6. With the top 5, I think Echizen would improve drastically as he always does that in every match. Why should he lose to Oni then?

Having lost against Tokugawa and trained his ass off, I see Echizen winning against Oni perfectly. Echizen has enough technique to return BJK and Oni's next move.

 

[Ninomiya]

Premise 1: If it has no plot, then it's an unofficial match.

Premise 2: If it is an unofficial match, then Echizen can lose.

Premise 3: If Echizen can lose, then Echizen will lose.

Oni wins.

Then why on earth did you say WoK can't lose twice and have to improve in their thread then?
Contradiction. At its peak.

 

[ashore]

Well, and improvements, Echizen could perfectly defeat from G-10 to G-6. With the top 5, I think Echizen would improve drastically as he always does that in every match. Why should he lose to Oni then?

Having lost against Tokugawa and trained his ass off, I see Echizen winning against Oni perfectly. Echizen has enough technique to return BJK and Oni's next move.

i'm not saying he couldnt win. it would be close and (Insert name here ) wins. i just inserted oni.

echizen did gain more skill and technique, but he jsut recently been able to hit 10 balls. while oni and tokugawa been
rallying liek that for an unknown amount of time now, and also increased their skill and technique.

ryoma pretty much has infinite potential, but he is arguely close to kintaro and kintarols level and lost to oni.
could ryoma beat tokugawa? probably not, i'm assuming tokugawa and oni are close to the same skill level and technique level.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

For me, Echizen wins.

Hyakuren > Any power shot (that is hit with the gut)

I say that because in the case of Rai, it cannot be returned. Hyakuren takes the copying ability of the original Muga and concentrates it for a doubled return. Since Rai is hit from the frame, a racquet gut cannot replicate the same properties on the shot like the frame can.

Echizen takes the win with Hyakuren since Oni's style is basically all power. You argue that Oni can simply return a doubled shot but can he really? I doubt Oni can return double his own power cleanly. He would probably hit a weak shot which could be exploited by Echizen.

 

[ashore]

For me, Echizen wins.

Hyakuren > Any power shot (that is hit with the gut)

I say that because in the case of Rai, it cannot be returned. Hyakuren takes the copying ability of the original Muga and concentrates it for a doubled return. Since Rai is hit from the frame, a racquet gut cannot replicate the same properties on the shot like the frame can.

Echizen takes the win with Hyakuren since Oni's style is basically all power. You argue that Oni can simply return a doubled shot but can he really? I doubt Oni can return double his own power cleanly. He would probably hit a weak shot which could be exploited by Echizen.

yea but in this tournament echizen isn't allowed to use hyrakuren. if you are doing a hypothetical, in the case he had it he would win. then probably so.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Damn, if no Hyakuren...

Echizen loses XD

 

[Kaoz]

Muga, Hyakuren and Saiki are technically allowed (if you want to compare, they were on Tezuka's ability list). The reason why I didn't include them for Ryoma is that I personally believe he can't use them anymore and his PP profile hasn't listed them. You're free to argue about them though.

For clarification.

 

[Bowser]

Konomi actually changed the Kaji versus Oni game in volume 8 (I think? could be 7) from just 'sort of close' to 'total blowout' and Kaji saying Oni went to a level above Black Jack Knife.

I don't think it was sort of close, Oni easily won in the first place- albeit Kaji wasn't lying on the floor sweating like he did in the revision one.

Impossible. This can't be possible.
Kintaro effortlessly returned this, and blew away Oni's gimmick racket in one return.

Hold it, when did he blow away Oni's gimmick racket and how was it effortlessly? Kintarou had to use his trump card to return the BJK (pre-mountain camp). Also in the manga, he isn't as hax as he is in the anime, we've had the discussions before when he first played Echizen.

http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v38/c337/4.html - doesn't teleport to Kamikakushi like he does in the anime
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v38/c337/9.html - just about made it to drive B.

We've seen nothing of Echizen's Hyakuren or Saiki since Yukimura's match and in all honesty, someone of Oni's level should be able to deal with those. I'll go with Oni.

 

[ashore]

wow what is the fate of team echizen, this round ends tonight.

also kaoz, thanks for the hyakuren and saiki. i think echizen could win. with a fusion of techniques and hyrakuren, I'm thinking echizen will evolve to fuse the techniques of others he's seen.

but once and for all i'm not changing my vote, technically a player at oni's level should be able to see through all special moves hit at him,
except some like RAI.

also oni's level probably will return most special moves of tezuka's that he's seen niou use. maybe not at first, but after a while he'll be able
to find a way to counter.

time for echizen to fall, the only wayw he wins is the author comes up with ways he is supposed to win and evolve. not that he couldn't
but since echizen potential is infinite, we the forum posters, could technically make up the wildest moves. but that's not for us
to do its for the author. no info , since echizen hasn't really played a serious match in u-17 manga.

 

[Kaoz]

Echizen Ryoma: 6 votes
Oni Juujirou: 8 votes

Winner: Oni Juujirou