The immortality of the 13 Great Warriors

[sazon]

I was talking to a friend who started reading ToG recently and the following question arose: We have several facts and indications that 13GW are far superior to the inhabitants of the tower, so why an immortality contract?

-The 13GW have Shinwonryuu, a form of mainstream Shinsoo without restrictions and that no inhabitant of the tower can use.

-Rankers do not grow old and as far as their immortality has been said it is not just about eternity, but about not dying at all.

- But only for people in the tower, irregulars have the ability to kill them.

So, all these points made me wonder, what if there are actually members of the tower stronger than the leaders of the families? For it is the only reason I see for an immortality contract to exist, of course, assuming there is nothing else.

I am not saying that Adori, Baek Ryun or Molic are stronger than the FH, however this issue came up in a debate and I found it interesting to bring it here. What do you guys think about that?

 

[MrPuncho]

That's interesting. What if they needed the immortality to deal with the Ancients? Either that or immortality seemed like a really cool idea at the time.

 

[Demonspeed]

One reason I can think of is that it to make them look like gods? They seem to be considered a bit like deities inside the tower. SIU even said that he took inspiration from the Olympian gods for them. When a Regular learn that they are so powerful AND immortal, it makes them look even more imposing.

A second one would be because of potential traitors among Guardians? Not sure if a Guardian can ignore a contract or not but now it's implied that Guardians have their own motives. Karaka had some privileges when he fought Yuri and the YHS-Evankhell duo got help from one of them. Unless SIU changes things later Guardians are the only ones stronger than the 13 Warriors and Urek and there are more than hundred of them.

Their knowledge of stronger beings outside of the Tower? They are nothing compared to Axis, the strongest beings in the TU verse(Can he kill them even with his reality warping? I never thought about this before). They all have their stories from outside and Urek directly came after following Phantaminium.

There are places that have never been explored by anyone even among the 135th Floors so a stronger being isn't impossible.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 11, 2020 ---

That's interesting. What if they needed the immortality to deal with the Ancients? Either that or immortality seemed like a really cool idea at the time.

Ancients are a powerful race but they don't seem to be above the likes of the 10 Families. Rak, Evankhell and Khel Hellam are strong, but not untouchable among their peers. Plus, they are mostly extinct now.

 

[MrPuncho]

Ancients are a powerful race but they don't seem to be above the likes of the 10 Families. Rak, Evankhell and Khel Hellam are strong, but not untouchable among their peers. Plus, they are mostly extinct now.

To my understanding, Zahard and his companions gained their immortality contracts on the 100th floor. Perhaps the ancients were still a pain in the ass at that time?

I think it's also worth noting that there were other Ancients besides the progenitor of the native ones, which I'm pretty sure scale a helluva a lot stronger than the likes of Evankhell and Khell Hellam.

(But I do have a question about the fire elephant and the big-ass bull. Are they ancients or fragments of a single ancient? I've been wondering about that for a while)

 

[Demonspeed]

To my understanding, Zahard and his companions gained their immortality contracts on the 100th floor. Perhaps the ancients were still a pain in the ass at that time?

I think it's also worth noting that there were other Ancients besides the progenitor of the native ones, which I'm pretty sure scale a helluva a lot stronger than the likes of Evankhell and Khell Hellam.

(But I do have a question about the fire elephant and the big-ass bull. Are they ancients or fragments of a single ancient? I've been wondering about that for a while)

I think they started killing them after Zahard became the king. They were still "Regulars" on the 100th Floor.

Considering Baam's growth they were probably beyond the top High Rankers of the current era already but we never know. Anyway, if there were really Ancients that strong, they were probably very few. The Native One and a few others or only him.

Maybe there is an analogy between Native One and his descendants. I am curious about these Ancient powers as well. Evankhell and Khel Hellam seem more like hosts of an AnciIent unlike Rak.

 

[kkck]

Not sure of what their immortality has to do with their overall power. They can be basically all powerful and still want to live forever. I doubt the purpose of their immortality was to become even stronger at least.

 

[MrPuncho]

I just had a thought.

What if their immortality contracts work similar to the contracts on the FoD? What if their souls, or something similar, are contained somewhere on the 100th floor, in exchange for their immortality?

 

[Demonspeed]

I just had a thought.

What if their immortality contracts work similar to the contracts on the FoD? What if their souls, or something similar, are contained somewhere on the 100th floor, in exchange for their immortality?

In the FoD arc Hwa Ryun said that Zahard and the FHs have complete immortality unlike the ones on the FoD. So their immortality is better.

 

[TheLastMartian]

if Zahard couldn't see fate, would the hidden garden have killed him in his sleep that 1 time assuming he is also not immortal?

they got the immortality while they were still regulars so maybe it really helped them in securing their current power base. like now gustang says he can kill everyone on a floor without much but i am sure on the 100th floor they were not as strong. perhaps they used the immortality to kill everything that was stronger than them at the time and conquered the tower that way and then set up their system.

 

[sazon]

if Zahard couldn't see fate, would the hidden garden have killed him in his sleep that 1 time assuming he is also not immortal?

I very much doubt it, that scene was shown to tell us how much the inhabitants of the tower were still unaware of the powers of Zahard and the 10 leaders, whether mortal or not, Zahard would finish them off.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 26, 2020 ---

The most coherent thing I was able to speculate was that even if irregulars could kill them, the other guardians cannot. And given all that we have of the lies created by Zahard to manipulate the inhabitants of the tower, I even doubt that he stopped climbing because the guardian is hostile.

 

[kkck]

Here is my take on the hidden garden... lets imagine the following scenario:

1.- Zahard is not immortal.
2.-Zahard is sleep.
3.- Zahard has all the power he has in the normal series.
4.- Hidden garden made it all the way to zahard's bedroom without waking him up.
5.- Every hidden garden member has as much time as they could conceivably need to prepare absolutely anything they can think of to hit zahard with. Nukes, poison, anti high ranker weapons, transcendental big named attacks. That other thing you are thinking? Yes, that too.

What I think would happen in this scenario is that every hidden garden member would fire at zahard with all their might, all their effort, all their nakama powerups and all of it would amount to having zahard wake up in a bad mood without having taken so much as a scratch.

 

[Brian Taboada]

What I think would happen in this scenario is that every hidden garden member would fire at zahard with all their might, all their effort, all their nakama powerups and all of it would amount to having zahard wake up in a bad mood without having taken so much as a scratch.

I think he would take damage if he was caught asleep like that. However, he would survive. Imagine having immortality and being locked in a cage. Or constantly having the crap beat out of you like Wangnan. I think there is a difference between immortality and omnipotence. Zahard might be powerful and immortal but I believe he can be harmed just like if Zahard decided he wanted to beat up one of the other family heads. There would be bruises and pain but the FH would survive.

 

[kkck]

I think he would take damage if he was caught asleep like that. However, he would survive. Imagine having immortality and being locked in a cage. Or constantly having the crap beat out of you like Wangnan. I think there is a difference between immortality and omnipotence. Zahard might be powerful and immortal but I believe he can be harmed just like if Zahard decided he wanted to beat up one of the other family heads. There would be bruises and pain but the FH would survive.

My post was mostly about how astonishingly powerful zahard's body probably is. There are cases like with kallavan or princesses who have bodies that have extraordinary capacity even by high ranker standards. Kallavan even makes the point that most high rankers can't even scratch him. And then comes zahard... I would make the point that odds are pretty damn high that zahard's body is magnitudes of strength beyond kallavan's. And in this case the people targeting zahard at best about comparable to kallavan. It's different if someone like zahard catches another family head off guard. That's gonna leave a mark, even if killing is an impossibility.

 

[Senoirmeow]

-Rankers do not grow old and as far as their immortality has been said it is not just about eternity, but about not dying at all.

I’m pretty sure that Rankers of the tower do age (in proportion to their state of mind I think it alters their appearance) but I think rankers (especially lower level ones) still do die of old age they just live for a few millennia. Even regulars live for many centuries. However there’s apparently a form of cancer people can get in the Tower - an allergic reaction to Shinsu that kills them and this is the main reason how people die of old age. I highly doubt an irregular like the 10 family heads would become allergic to it as they are all blessed by Shinsu.

When they acquired immortality on the 100th floor I think foul play was at work by the guardian. Why give these people immortality when they are climbing the tower unless you know they’ll be offered something that would change them on the 134th floor? it would make their challenges pointless as they climbed because they can’t die (unless it only works on lower floors) Why eliminate any challenge they could face unless you knew they wouldn’t reach the top of the tower. The guardians knew something about them.

I’ve honestly always thought that others before Zahard and friends arrived climbed further than the 134th floor in the past. The towers been around for a much longer period of time than before Zahard arrived so there may possible be others stronger than them

 

[Demonspeed]

I’ve honestly always thought that others before Zahard and friends arrived climbed further than the 134th floor in the past. The towers been around for a much longer period of time than before Zahard arrived so there may possible be others stronger than them

I don't think it fits the lore. What did they bring to the Tower then? TOG in the end is just a piece of TUS. We don't know who made it, but I doubt there were pioneers before Zahard and his warriors came. An Axis could have made it with a mere thought.

 

[Senoirmeow]

I don't think it fits the lore. What did they bring to the Tower then? TOG in the end is just a piece of TUS. We don't know who made it, but I doubt there were pioneers before Zahard and his warriors came. An Axis could have made it with a mere thought.

Well they could’ve been in the tower millennia and millennia before anyone else and their story simply ended. Well the thought occurred to me when I discovered that “The Workshop” was inside the tower before Zahard’s arrival as he and his companions respected their authority and rules, why did they do this? Because they also exist outside the tower. Despite its “founder” Macseth being native to the tower even he has no idea about the workshops true origins peculiarly enough. So either they existed in the tower and escaped or equally as likely entered it and turned it into a “colonial” research station to learn more about the world. And true an Axis could’ve made it with mere thought instantly, but since Axis are immortal they could’ve created it Aeons ago or weeks before Zahard entered, no one knows so it’s a rather neutral argument.

 

[kkck]

Originally IIRC the lore made the point that rankers do age but at an extremely reduced rate. I am a bit of the idea that this remains the case but rankers live such an absurdly long amount of time that the absurdly long time for which the empire has existed is not enough to age significantly. Going by early lore entries, IIRC, elaine shouldn't even be alive by now.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

I don't think the plan was stay in the tower forever. So they had no plans of creating a system for people of the tower climb it. Besides, the immortality is likely one of the gifts they take with them to the outside after clearing the tower stage. If someone appears offering you an immortality contract because you finished the floor test, would you deny it?

About the power of the current tower inhabitants... I think you should forget about them and focus on the shinheuh that FHs had to fight during their tests with the Administrator. We suppose the Administrator can create beings strong enough to give a team of 13 irregulars a challenge till the 134th floor. If they feared death, it's not because of Molic One or Luslec or any future children of them.

 

[kkck]

To me it'd be strange if contracts made in the tower worked outside of it. Even administrators power is weaker outside of their own floors. Not sure if contracts are related to shinsoo or not but if they are then that's a point against the idea as well.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

To me it'd be strange if contracts made in the tower worked outside of it. Even administrators power is weaker outside of their own floors. Not sure if contracts are related to shinsoo or not but if they are then that's a point against the idea as well.

I think it's logical the things they accomplish in the tower will be taken to the outside with them. That's what the premise of the tower, no? The goal of any climber is finish all the tests and leave the place, not stay there. It's the same as a dungeon where you enter it after powers, treasures and special itens.