Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[MangaHelpers]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]57834[/split]

 

[MangaHelpers]

Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]74274[/split]

 

[Rikudou King]

Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

That Iwa nin and Tobi didn't know they were tagged until Minato used Hiraishin. NOr did Tobi know about Hiraishin v2. Hell, even Raikage didn't know Bee was tagged, though I think Bee knew. Doesn't matter if Minato hides the use, he just needs to make sure the seal can't be seen or noticed so he can get Madara off guard. Madara isn't fast enough to react to Hiraishin out of the blue.

Obito didn't know he was tagged because he got tagged on the back, where being able to see chakra wouldn't be helpful at all. It's highly unlikely that such a situation would be repeated with anyone else, considering the circumstances. There's no way that Minato could plant a tag on the backs of Madara or Itachi without them being aware something was up. And seeing that Madara was easily able to react to not only Ee and Tsunade teleporting in front of him but also Naruto's shunshin, which was compared to Minato's Hiraishin several times, there's absolutely no reason Madara shouldn't be able to react to Hiraishin.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Well, if Minato doesn't use the jutsu then he can hide it. How would Madara know about HIraishin anyway, considering Minato rose to prominence while Madara was underground attached to the Mazou? Itachi would know about Hiraishin though, but it's probably a moot point as Itachi could get Minato in a genjutsu right off the bat. But when did Itachi serve under Minato? He wasn't even out of the academy yet....

Me either, but I guess teleporting to a moving seal is infinitely more difficult? Could also be an asspull to beat Tobi. I can see Minato getting close enough to Madara if Madara charges at him. It'd be hard to hit MInato because of his speed/reflexes.

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

Obito didn't know he was tagged because he got tagged on the back, where being able to see chakra wouldn't be helpful at all. It's highly unlikely that such a situation would be repeated with anyone else, considering the circumstances. There's no way that Minato could plant a tag on the backs of Madara or Itachi without them being aware something was up. And seeing that Madara was easily able to react to not only Ee and Tsunade teleporting in front of him but also Naruto's shunshin, which was compared to Minato's Hiraishin several times, there's absolutely no reason Madara shouldn't be able to react to Hiraishin.

I am not talking about Itachi considering with his fighting style, Minato would have to run towards Itachi. Madara is the one who charges in, no? If he does, then Minato can quickly sidestep and attack or leave a kunai where Madara is, teleport to dodge, teleport back, and attack Madara while planting the seal. Madara won't know it's on his back since Minato did attack, just like Tobi didn't know.

Madara saw Naruto coming - it may be like Hiraishin but it's still footspeed, somethin that Sharingan can predict. Hiraishin is reverse summoning so Sharingan shouldn't be able to track it.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

I am not talking about Itachi considering with his fighting style, Minato would have to run towards Itachi. Madara is the one who charges in, no? If he does, then Minato can quickly sidestep and attack or leave a kunai where Madara is, teleport to dodge, teleport back, and attack Madara while planting the seal. Madara won't know it's on his back since Minato did attack, just like Tobi didn't know.

Madara saw Naruto coming - it may be like Hiraishin but it's still footspeed, somethin that Sharingan can predict. Hiraishin is reverse summoning so Sharingan shouldn't be able to track it.

It seems to depend on his mood, but even if he did, it doesn't seem likely that Minato would be able to simply sidestep him. He could barely dodge Ee charging him, and had to rely on Hiraishin to escape. Madara is at least as fast as Ee, if not faster given Ee needed more then his max speed against him. Unless Minato has his tags already set up, he doesn't have any options of escape. And as mentioned, he was able to react to Ee and Tsunade instantly teleporting in. So his Sharingan should easily tell him when Minato disappears and allow him to react accordingly. And Madara seem to defensive to allow any attack to touch.

Madara may not be able to track where Minato goes with Hiraishin, but he will be able to track his appearances and disappearances from what we've seen.

 

[REN KOUEN]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

i dont think minato is a clear cut favorite against madara, but he could certainly beat him

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]74274[/split]

why double post brah

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

It seems to depend on his mood, but even if he did, it doesn't seem likely that Minato would be able to simply sidestep him. He could barely dodge Ee charging him, and had to rely on Hiraishin to escape. Madara is at least as fast as Ee, if not faster given Ee needed more then his max speed against him. Unless Minato has his tags already set up, he doesn't have any options of escape. And as mentioned, he was able to react to Ee and Tsunade instantly teleporting in. So his Sharingan should easily tell him when Minato disappears and allow him to react accordingly. And Madara seem to defensive to allow any attack to touch.

Madara may not be able to track where Minato goes with Hiraishin, but he will be able to track his appearances and disappearances from what we've seen.

I don't recall Madara being as fast as the Raikage, but if Minato can see Madara coming then I think he'd be fast enough to dodge. In a hand-to-hand taijutsu fight though, Minato would likely be outmatched. Minato also has tags set up in a lot of places, like in Konoha. Doubt the seals would have disappeared just because he died, but given how a frog's name is automatically erased from the scroll, it's possible.

I thought that was more because Madara's reflexes were quick. Muu probably couldn't dodge because of Kabuto.

Madara doesn't seem entirely defensive though, he let Oonoki blast him with the Jinton and was punched few times by Tsunade and Raikage.

 

[Dark blood]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Even If Minato once or twice use Hiraishin to avoid Madara's Jutsu, he still have the same problem which is Obito's weakness. He either have to come in to contact with Madara at some stage in order to hit him, Assuming that Rasengan is his Best Offence then what is stopping madara from Using Susan'o. Even if Madara is able to activate Susano as quickly as we've seen both sasuke and Itachi, he ll simply block his attack. That will surely be a long long battle

 

[REN KOUEN]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Even If Minato once or twice use Hiraishin to avoid Madara's Jutsu, he still have the same problem which is Obito's weakness. He either have to come in to contact with Madara at some stage in order to hit him, Assuming that Rasengan is his Best Offence then what is stopping madara from Using Susan'o. Even if Madara is able to activate Susano as quickly as we've seen both sasuke and Itachi, he ll simply block his attack. That will surely be a long long battle

he throws a kunai directly at madaras face, madara having no prior knowledge of his hiraishin just dodges by moving his head slightly

minato warps and cuts his throat

fight over

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

I don't recall Madara being as fast as the Raikage, but if Minato can see Madara coming then I think he'd be fast enough to dodge. In a hand-to-hand taijutsu fight though, Minato would likely be outmatched. Minato also has tags set up in a lot of places, like in Konoha. Doubt the seals would have disappeared just because he died, but given how a frog's name is automatically erased from the scroll, it's possible.

I thought that was more because Madara's reflexes were quick. Muu probably couldn't dodge because of Kabuto.

Madara doesn't seem entirely defensive though, he let Oonoki blast him with the Jinton and was punched few times by Tsunade and Raikage.

Madara was capable of easily blocking Ee at his fastest speed, to the point of Ee needing Onoki to make himself even faster. And as we have been told, in order to be capable of blocking or dodging someone, one has to have comparable speeds. Even with his tags already prepared, Minato still only managed to teleport away at the last second. Teleporting back to Konoha or such would allow him to survive, but he would obviously have lost the fight.

It would be due to both, as just having the Sharingan wouldn't mean being able to block or such. And Madara allowed Onoki to hit him in order to hurt their determination. every other time, he protected himself with Susanoo. Hashirama is the only one who has fought him without it, and that was due to the sheer length of their battle wearing both out.

 

[Dark blood]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

he throws a kunai directly at madaras face, madara having no prior knowledge of his hiraishin just dodges by moving his head slightly

minato warps and cuts his throat

fight over

Assuming that Madara don't activate Suasano or even discard his ninja senses which allow ninjas to block a Kunai or Shiruken even from Blind spot (Even Kakashi displayed that against Kabuto in Konoha Hospital) and stay still then yeah, FIGHT SHOULD BE OVER

Madara is IMO higher then your average Jounin, so that won't gonna happen. And once he see Hiraishin and avoids it, he ll be way more cautious

 

[REN KOUEN]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

i agree that once madara realizes he is.a hiraishin user minato is all but toast

but at the very least even if he doesnt kill madara right away

so.long as he is able to mark him with the forumula he can still win

the longer the fight goes on the lower minatos chances get

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Madara was capable of easily blocking Ee at his fastest speed, to the point of Ee needing Onoki to make himself even faster. And as we have been told, in order to be capable of blocking or dodging someone, one has to have comparable speeds. Even with his tags already prepared, Minato still only managed to teleport away at the last second. Teleporting back to Konoha or such would allow him to survive, but he would obviously have lost the fight.

Did he move with the Raikage or did he just move his arms? There's a difference there, and once Minato knew about Raikage's speed he was able to dodge it without a worry albeit with Hiraishin. Not sure if blocking needs comparable speed as dodging does.

And let's not forget that Minato was surprised and didn't expect Raikage's speed to be that fast. The second time he didn't need so much time to dodge, and if there's a tag near the battlefield, he can reenter the fight.

It would be due to both, as just having the Sharingan wouldn't mean being able to block or such. And Madara allowed Onoki to hit him in order to hurt their determination. every other time, he protected himself with Susanoo. Hashirama is the only one who has fought him without it, and that was due to the sheer length of their battle wearing both out.

Has Madara ever started his fight with Susano'o and/or running at his opponent? Minato's advantage is from people who run at him, as seen with Raikage. I dunno if Madara would notice a seal if he gets hit since he'd either not feel it or wouldn't think something is up. I do think that Tobi would have thought it suspicious Minato touched him without dealing any damage, and that Iwa nin never noticed the seal on his sandal. Though granted, I don't think Minato will get that kind of chance to touch Madara's sandal.

 

[Dark blood]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

i agree that once madara realizes he is.a hiraishin user minato is all but toast

but at the very least even if he doesnt kill madara right away

so.long as he is able to mark him with the forumula he can still win

the longer the fight goes on the lower minatos chances get

Agreed, that If Minato is able to Mark Madara with his formula he can win. But that will require him to play his cards smartly and carefully, Hiraishin wont be an entirely new thing for Madara coz he have seen it being used by Tobirama.
Also we don't know if Rasengan is the deadliest Jutsu Minato have in his arsenla, if that's the case then his chances are still grim.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Did he move with the Raikage or did he just move his arms? There's a difference there, and once Minato knew about Raikage's speed he was able to dodge it without a worry albeit with Hiraishin. Not sure if blocking needs comparable speed as dodging does.

And let's not forget that Minato was surprised and didn't expect Raikage's speed to be that fast. The second time he didn't need so much time to dodge, and if there's a tag near the battlefield, he can reenter the fight.

According to what we were told, there isn't a difference. Even to simply move your arm to block in time requires comparable speed, else you won't make it before being hit. And let's not forget that Madara isn't someone who will simply charge in with a punch. He'll use his fan or sword, which would mean his reach would be quite longer then Minato would suspect. Even when Minato was prepared for Ee's speed, he still only dodged by a few inches. It's unlikely he would be able to dodge a length longer then that.

Has Madara ever started his fight with Susano'o and/or running at his opponent? Minato's advantage is from people who run at him, as seen with Raikage. I dunno if Madara would notice a seal if he gets hit since he'd either not feel it or wouldn't think something is up. I do think that Tobi would have thought it suspicious Minato touched him without dealing any damage, and that Iwa nin never noticed the seal on his sandal. Though granted, I don't think Minato will get that kind of chance to touch Madara's sandal.

Well, the only times we saw Madara charge straight at an opponent was during his youth with Hashirama, and it was implied that he continued that into adulthood (when Itachi and Obito told Sasuke his history). Since reviving though, he's either attacked with a ninjutsu first before rushing in or waited to be attack before attacking/defending himself. Madara doesn't have to notice a seal, he simply has to notice Minato appearing, at which point he would react.

You can miss the eyes but you can't Miss the Susano. But can agree on the second part that he may comment once he is shown, still if he ignored Sasuke completely that'll be a disappointment

To be fair, Susanoo may not be that visible surrounded by a bunch of giant monsters, especially if

Spoiler

Madara's preoccupied with his Hashirama clone.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

According to what we were told, there isn't a difference. Even to simply move your arm to block in time requires comparable speed, else you won't make it before being hit. And let's not forget that Madara isn't someone who will simply charge in with a punch. He'll use his fan or sword, which would mean his reach would be quite longer then Minato would suspect. Even when Minato was prepared for Ee's speed, he still only dodged by a few inches. It's unlikely he would be able to dodge a length longer then that.

Where was that said? I don't think you need comparable speed to move your arms, just the reflexes, whereas running or dodging would be different.

But if Minato sees Madara using the sword, he can react accordingly. And if Madara doesn't know about Hiraishin, then he will be too shocked to be able to react instantly, giving Minato that second he needs. It worked against Tobi, no?

All Minato needs to do is use Hiraishin. Even when he didn't know about Raikage's max speed, he was still able to dodge it with Hiraishin and appear on Raikage's back with the kunai he left. He could do the same here, regardless of sword or fan. Though if Madara holds the sword at arm's length....

Well, the only times we saw Madara charge straight at an opponent was during his youth with Hashirama, and it was implied that he continued that into adulthood (when Itachi and Obito told Sasuke his history). Since reviving though, he's either attacked with a ninjutsu first before rushing in or waited to be attack before attacking/defending himself. Madara doesn't have to notice a seal, he simply has to notice Minato appearing, at which point he would react.

Different fighting style reanimated, so we basically don't know how he'd fight alive. D:

But if he doesn't expect Minato reappearing, then he'll be shocked for a second.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Where was that said? I don't think you need comparable speed to move your arms, just the reflexes, whereas running or dodging would be different.

Sasuke's battle with Lee. You would need comparable speed, else you wouldn't be able to move your arms fast enough to block the incoming attack even if you saw it. Sasuke saw all of Lee's moves, yet wasn't fast enough to do anything about them.

But if Minato sees Madara using the sword, he can react accordingly. And if Madara doesn't know about Hiraishin, then he will be too shocked to be able to react instantly, giving Minato that second he needs. It worked against Tobi, no?

React how? His only option would be to run before Madara made his move. And despite not knowing about any of the Alliances tricks, he wasn't caught off guard or taken before he could react. His abilities clearly outclass those of Obito, who's easily been taken by a single high ranking ninja.

All Minato needs to do is use Hiraishin. Even when he didn't know about Raikage's max speed, he was still able to dodge it with Hiraishin and appear on Raikage's back with the kunai he left. He could do the same here, regardless of sword or fan. Though if Madara holds the sword at arm's length....

Madara is far more complex then Ee is though, and isn't simply gonna charge ahead with a simple punch. And unless Minato can react much faster then he did with Ee, the fan/sword will matter quite a bit.

Different fighting style reanimated, so we basically don't know how he'd fight alive. D:

But if he doesn't expect Minato reappearing, then he'll be shocked for a second.

Itachi's the only Edo summon that fought differently then when he was alive, and that seems to have been more due to his sickness and habit of holding back while he was alive. Madara not expecting Ee twice still didn't prevent him from defending.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Sasuke's battle with Lee. You would need comparable speed, else you wouldn't be able to move your arms fast enough to block the incoming attack even if you saw it. Sasuke saw all of Lee's moves, yet wasn't fast enough to do anything about them.

Because he lacked reflexes to move his limbs in time and the speed to dodge.

React how? His only option would be to run before Madara made his move. And despite not knowing about any of the Alliances tricks, he wasn't caught off guard or taken before he could react. His abilities clearly outclass those of Obito, who's easily been taken by a single high ranking ninja.

If Madara tries to attack him with the sword, then Minato can either try to block with his kunai or use Hiraishin if the tags are set up beforehand. Even Raikage was unable to react in time to the sequence. Even when Minato was caught off guard, he was able to react in time to avoid damage or warps. And wasn't Madara able to see what the Alliance would do beforehand because of his Sharingan? It's not like Naruto and Raikage used their speed in a close range.

Madara is far more complex then Ee is though, and isn't simply gonna charge ahead with a simple punch. And unless Minato can react much faster then he did with Ee, the fan/sword will matter quite a bit.

True, but I don't think Madara can match Raikage's speed, can he? If he's not that fast then Minato can still dodge the move with Hiraishin.

Itachi's the only Edo summon that fought differently then when he was alive, and that seems to have been more due to his sickness and habit of holding back while he was alive. Madara not expecting Ee twice still didn't prevent him from defending.

how much distance was there between them though? I think that plays a major part in whether one can dodge or not.

 

[Dark blood]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Only chance for Minato is to finish it ASAP. Cause in terms of stamina and Power i guess Madara is way Ahead Minato, He was able to fight for 24 hours straight, so as long as the battle grow, things will be bad for Minato. He can't finish him with Rasengan nor he can appear and cut Madara's throat instantly.
Unless Minato pull some thing like " Mark Madara's throat with his formula and teleport a Kunai to it "

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12 - Part 1

Because he lacked reflexes to move his limbs in time and the speed to dodge.

Which required comparable speeds.

If Madara tries to attack him with the sword, then Minato can either try to block with his kunai or use Hiraishin if the tags are set up beforehand. Even Raikage was unable to react in time to the sequence. Even when Minato was caught off guard, he was able to react in time to avoid damage or warps. And wasn't Madara able to see what the Alliance would do beforehand because of his Sharingan? It's not like Naruto and Raikage used their speed in a close range.

Key issue is that Minato wouldn't be able to react in time to block it and probably Hiraishin away. If we figure Madara has the same speed as Ee, then by the time Minato notices the attack, it'll be too late to block or escape without receiving damage.

Madara has shown incredible reaction, superior to Ee's. Minto avoided damage due to the nature of the attacks. Madara's attack wouldn't be that way. And the times Madara dealt with Ee, it was at close range.

True, but I don't think Madara can match Raikage's speed, can he? If he's not that fast then Minato can still dodge the move with Hiraishin.

I'm pretty sure Madara can match Ee's speed. He easily avoided Gaara's sand, which we know is pretty fast, along with the aforementioned blocking.

how much distance was there between them though? I think that plays a major part in whether one can dodge or not.

Both times there was only a few inches between them before Madara notice: Ee and Tsunade teleporting in and Ee's combo with Mei.