Hangout One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

They should have just taken Mansherry with them, she's the one with the healing fruit and she can restore stamina with her dandhelions.

 

[robetryan]

Even the anime watchers raised the inconsistency about luffy's sandals teleporting to his feet while using gear fourth. I raised that topic in the manga chapter thread and they think I'am crazy. Now I'am laughing. http://www.oppirates.com/funny-expanation-for-mistake-in-anime/

 

[Eigengrau]

Even the anime watchers raised the inconsistency about luffy's sandals teleporting to his feet while using gear fourth. I raised that topic in the manga chapter thread and they think I'am crazy. Now I'am laughing. http://www.oppirates.com/funny-expanation-for-mistake-in-anime/

Since there was such a "backlash" when that happened in the manga I find it curious that they didn't "fix" it in the anime.

 

[robetryan]

I

Since there was such a "backlash" when that happened in the manga I find it curious that they didn't "fix" it in the anime.

I'am the the 1st one who raised it in this domain. They ridiculed me. hahahaha
here's the thread.
https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...n-791-predictions.3000580/page-4#post-4041483
https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...scussion-795-prediction.3000883/#post-4056737

 

[ProGoddess]

I guess the manga team must have really missed it. I haven't gotten the chance to read the Volume, but I hope it is fixed. However if the mistake has never been spotted, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Nevertheless, it is a minor mistake which would not affect the story or plot in any way.

 

[goldb]

I guess the manga team must have really missed it. I haven't gotten the chance to read the Volume, but I hope it is fixed. However if the mistake has never been spotted, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Nevertheless, it is a minor mistake which would not affect the story or plot in any way.

Mistakes are common, they're not robots. They are usually fixed before the volume edition is released. Sometimes redon will scan and share images of any changes made/mistakes fixed from Jump to volume releases.

It's not something that affects the story, you're right but I understand the frustration some might have in firstly noticing a mistake like that and then not seeing it resolved in the volume release.

 

[fastfonz]

i know, he's a "evil guy" and experimented on Kids and produced mass murder weapons, but somehow i get the Feeling he's getting slowly redeemed and his full redemption will come with the sanji rescue arc.

I hope not. To me there is no redemption for things like that. He is different from other villains (Franky, Robin, etc). To me, no matter what he does now, even sacrificing himself for others he is just too dark. Is like redemption for Hitler. No, no redemption, just a bullet to the head. Sadly, the government may "forgive" him so that they can use him to create more weapons. Hope he ends in Impel Down.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I hope not. To me there is no redemption for things like that. He is different from other villains (Franky, Robin, etc). To me, no matter what he does now, even sacrificing himself for others he is just too dark. Is like redemption for Hitler. No, no redemption, just a bullet to the head. Sadly, the government may "forgive" him so that they can use him to create more weapons. Hope he ends in Impel Down.

Why is Robin redeemable while Caesar isn't?

Let's not forget she was working with Crocodile who starved an entire nation off water, cut short their productivity to survive or even be politically stable financially; imagine the amount of lives ruined both physically and mentally? She was also the 2nd in command of his operations and was involved in the working out his plan; 1,000s of people died because of Crocodile's project and what did Robin do to save them or alleviate their suffering? Nothing, all because she was looking for a Poneglyph whether it concluded in the destruction of the world or not; she didn't care for anyone but her own goals. The only time she raised her hand against Crocodile was only after she'd realized the Poneglyph she sought after wasn't there. How is this any different from Caesar? She's equally as self-driven by her own ambitions just as Caesar is, at least, back then.

Caesar may have experimented on children, but Robin's hands are also tainted in the blood of not just children, but entire families not for just a few months, but years. It's easy to judge certain acts as "evil", but evil really shouldn't be subject to standard, or else certain "evils" are okay whilst others are not which results in double standards. So, if she's redeemable now, then surely, if Caesar's using his science for the good of others, he should also be redeemable.

 

[Morlun]

Caesar may have experimented on children, but Robin's hands are also tainted in the blood of not just children, but entire families not for just a few months, but years. It's easy to judge certain acts as "evil", but evil really shouldn't be subject to standard, or else certain "evils" are okay whilst others are not which results in double standards. So, if she's redeemable now, then surely, if Caesar's using his science for the good of others, he should also be redeemable.

Caesar takes pleasure in it. Caesar is a sociopath (devoid of any empathy). It's not even a mater of him being redeemable, its a matter of him not thinking he needs redemption, not wanting redemption, and more importantly, being psychologically incapable of caring about "nakama".

It's not a matter of what he did, it's a matter of who he is.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Caesar takes pleasure in it. Caesar is a sociopath (devoid of any empathy). It's not even a mater of him being redeemable, its a matter of him not thinking he needs redemption, not wanting redemption, and more importantly, being psychologically incapable of caring about "nakama".

It's not a matter of what he did, it's a matter of who he is.

That's his current state of mind, you don't know what he's capable or incapable of emotionally since we don't know much about his past.

This is an individual who as far as we know has no friends, his motivation in life is to be recognized, that's merely a superficial goal, why are his desires so superficial? Do we know if he was subject to similar tragedy like Law or Joker? Do we know what led to him displaying such character? Was he born this way despite having good upbringing or did he fight his way up which resulted in his twisted nature?

Is Law evil? He initially wanted to kill and destroy, he was sadistic until he met Rocinante. What if Law had committed Genocide before he met Rocinante, would he still be irredeemable? What if Law hadn't met with Rocinante? Would he be any different from Joker or Caesar who currently revels in watching others suffer? It's hard to say.

What if Joker hadn't met with Trebol and co. who fostered his anger and madness? What if his mother whom he seemingly cared for didn't die? We see that Joker still has nightmares concerning his past. Even Joker cannot be considered absolutely evil, we saw the conditions in which he was brought up, many people would turn out similarly had they lived a life of extravagance, nobility and with the indoctrination that they were superior to every other being and that owning slaves is their birth right. All we know so far is, survival of the fittest is currently the conditions in which Caesar has had to survive.

Robin is just as selfish as any villain we've come across, Ace could easily have turned out to be a complete good-for-nothing; however, there's one thing all these people have in common, they met good people who changed their perspective on life and were positive influences.

Until we see that Caesar is utterly unable to change in spite of a good crowd around him, condemning him as irredeemable will be a double standard. Did Robin even feel guilty about Alabasta? but we know she's changed now.

Based on what Caesar's done so far, yes he's certainly evil, but irredeemable? I disagree.

 

[fastfonz]

Caesar may have experimented on children, but Robin's hands are also tainted in the blood of not just children, but entire families not for just a few months, but years. It's easy to judge certain acts as "evil", but evil really shouldn't be subject to standard, or else certain "evils" are okay whilst others are not which results in double standards. So, if she's redeemable now, then surely, if Caesar's using his science for the good of others, he should also be redeemable.

Granted, in OP you can be a mass murderer and be redeemed, since it is not the real world. If we go by real world standards none of them are redeemable so I shouldn't be using that standard in manga. Gaara and many dark Naruto characters were redeemed. Same with characters like Vegeta. So yes, it is possible but not sure he is planning on going that route. Oda might redeem him somewhat, I wouldn't be surprised but the guy takes too much pleasure on it and hasn't been portrayed as a villain who no longer wants to be a villain.

Nico was portrayed as not really wanting to do those things or taking pleasure in them. It wasn't her plan. Caesar still takes pleasure in mass murder. He doesn't decide were to use the WMDs but is happy creating weapons for the underworld and takes pride in it. That said, Crocodile has since been redeemed quite a lot, and other characters from DD's crew like Baby 5 were redeemed, and I could see Senor Pink, and Monet changing sides. I don't know, but didn't you feel Senor Pink was less evil in his demeanor than Caesar. It did seem that way to me. Oda could make it happen, but I am not buying it yet.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Granted, in OP you can be a mass murderer and be redeemed, since it is not the real world. If we go by real world standards none of them are redeemable so I shouldn't be using that standard in manga. Gaara and many dark Naruto characters were redeemed. Same with characters like Vegeta. So yes, it is possible but not sure he is planning on going that route. Oda might redeem him somewhat, I wouldn't be surprised but the guy takes too much pleasure on it and hasn't been portrayed as a villain who no longer wants to be a villain.

Nico was portrayed as not really wanting to do those things or taking pleasure in them. It wasn't her plan. Caesar still takes pleasure in mass murder. He doesn't decide were to use the WMDs but is happy creating weapons for the underworld and takes pride in it. That said, Crocodile has since been redeemed quite a lot, and other characters from DD's crew like Baby 5 were redeemed, and I could see Senor Pink, and Monet changing sides. I don't know, but didn't you feel Senor Pink was less evil in his demeanor than Caesar. It did seem that way to me. Oda could make it happen, but I am not buying it yet.

Crocodile was never redeemed, he's just a fan favourite because of his demeanour and his performance during the war of the best. What did he do morally that marks him redeemed? Nothing. He only aided Luffy because it benefited him, and he hates the World Government. Robin wasn't portrayed as reluctant, she just did it, she was rather apathetic about it going by portrayal standards.

It ultimately depends on Oda, if he decides to redeem a character, it's possible.

Like I implied before, it's not black and white when labelling one evil like in the case of Senor Pink. He was a man who loved his family, but still killed people. Is he really a good man? In fact, he might simplyevil in a sense.

He has a loving wife, a child to look after, he probably could have decided to earn an honest living, but instead, he still committed this atrocities; he had the opportunity and the conditions that should have encouraged him to repent, but did he? Can we really deem him a good man? Caesar hasn't been offered such opportunity to change, so to judge him irredeemable is questionable at this point.

The fact is yes, Caesar took pleasure in the things he did, but we still have no clue why he's that way. We don't know what would happen if he met people like the SHs. Whether he's redeemable or not depends on how Oda wants to develop him ultimately; whether me, you or others forgive him or not has no relevance to whether he's redeemed or not. It's no different to deciding not to be angry at someone or if to forgive someone or not, it's a personal choice that differs from person to person just like how we decide one is redeemed or not.

The fact is if they do everything possible to make up for what offence or crime the committed sincerely, then they should be considered forgiven or redeemed objectively; from an emotional point, different people would forgive at different times, so judging when someone is redeemed in a sense is flawed if done emotionally.

Even by real world standards, a murderer could atone for his ways and be sincere and do everything possible to make up for his crimes, and he wouldn't be forgiven, but factually, he should be redeemed because he/she has repented.

People are redeemable objectively and emotionally from personal perspective depending on the individual; the issue is people are not willing or ready to forgive even though the past can't be changed, where all that can be done is to move forward, so it's subjective in that sense.

IMO, It centres around what basis we're determining one's redemption, emotionally or objectively?

 

[fastfonz]

Even by real world standards, a murderer could atone for his ways and be sincere and do everything possible to make up for his crimes, and he wouldn't be forgiven, but factually, he should be redeemed because he/she has repented.

People are redeemable objectively and emotionally from personal perspective depending on the individual; the issue is people are not willing or ready to forgive even though the past can't be changed, where all that can be done is to move forward, so it's subjective in that sense.

IMO, It centres around what basis we're determining one's redemption, emotionally or objectively?

A murderer, yes, a mass murderer, or someone like Hitler no to most people. Many war criminals were executed in the Nuremberg trials and some people are given multiple life sentences. God could perhaps forgive them, but not mankind. Doubt most people would consider mass murderers redeemable no matter what they do to atone for their mistakes in real life. That said, its OP, so up to Oda. Doesn't matter really. CC has a cool power but seems a bit of a sleazeball. And I would argue objectively as well as emotionally. The law in this sense would be objective. Depending on the country, especially in countries with the death penalty, some mistakes are simply unforgivable, even if we move on emotionally.

 

[Fox666]

I just realized Bepo is a bald mink.

 

[hokageji]

I think Minks probably can materialize their Haki to a certain type... just like how most people can make it hard like iron, minks can convert it to electricity...
its just a theory...
also, no way can u convert static electricity into something that can stun people like an actual bolt of lightening.

 

[EddyBob15]

I think Minks probably can materialize their Haki to a certain type... just like how most people can make it hard like iron, minks can convert it to electricity...
its just a theory...
also, no way can u convert static electricity into something that can stun people like an actual bolt of lightening.

Uh, in case you forgot, the world of One Piece defies the laws of real world physics, so static could do something like that.

 

[kkck]

To me the mink seem like a redo of the fishmen except objectively better in every regard. Fishman island was hyped for around 500 chapters and what we got was a bit of a letdown. Of course, 500 chapters worth of hype is hard to live up to. The island itself was a disappointment, the introduced characters were all between worthless and weak in terms of strength and the enemy fought during the arc was just about as weak as well. To add insult to injury the entire arc was pointless because the entire enemy group simply poisoned themselves into old age. As in, there was basically no need to fight them in the long run. And considering most of the danger during the arc came from noah, which might have been avoided altogether had the strawhats simply not fought at all, the whole thing gets even more pointless. Well, the royal family might have died in that case but perhaps avoiding the risk of an island sized boat falling into FI the loss was perhaps worth it. Not to mention that the boat itself is a crucial part of the future survival of FI for some reason.

 

[EddyBob15]

To me the mink seem like a redo of the fishmen except objectively better in every regard. Fishman island was hyped for around 500 chapters and what we got was a bit of a letdown. Of course, 500 chapters worth of hype is hard to live up to. The island itself was a disappointment, the introduced characters were all between worthless and weak in terms of strength and the enemy fought during the arc was just about as weak as well. To add insult to injury the entire arc was pointless because the entire enemy group simply poisoned themselves into old age. As in, there was basically no need to fight them in the long run. And considering most of the danger during the arc came from noah, which might have been avoided altogether had the strawhats simply not fought at all, the whole thing gets even more pointless. Well, the royal family might have died in that case but perhaps avoiding the risk of an island sized boat falling into FI the loss was perhaps worth it. Not to mention that the boat itself is a crucial part of the future survival of FI for some reason.

Technically, the Noah came at Fishman Island because Decken overreacted to Shirahoshi's rejection.

Also, the only reason everyone except Jinbe seemed weak was because the Straw Hats had just undergone two years worth of intense training. If they had traveled to Fishman Island immediately after the Marineford War, it wouldn't have been nearly as easy for them.

 

[kkck]

Technically, the Noah came at Fishman Island because Decken overreacted to Shirahoshi's rejection.

Also, the only reason everyone except Jinbe seemed weak was because the Straw Hats had just undergone two years worth of intense training. If they had traveled to Fishman Island immediately after the Marineford War, it wouldn't have been nearly as easy for them.

Well, that is technically true. But didn't that rejection happen because luffy moved shirahoshi from the castle to begin with? I don't remember that well to be honest but it kinda seems like the strawhats were solving problems they caused to begin with.

Well, yeah, the strawhats were indeed too strong. But my issue here is the writing itself. Fishman island was made specifically to have weak enemies whom the strawhats could defeat easily and instantly. None of hodi's men gave the strawhats any degree of trouble. Hodi himself was defeated while underwater by zoro. And he only gave luffy some measure of trouble when the fight was underwater. And even then it kinda seems like sanji or zoro would have had an easier time with hodi anyways (specially sanji with his blue walk). If franky has some sort of underwater mode then odds are he has hodi beat too. And brook would probably at least win against the guy while on land.

 

[EddyBob15]

Well, yeah, the strawhats were indeed too strong. But my issue here is the writing itself. Fishman island was made specifically to have weak enemies whom the strawhats could defeat easily and instantly. None of hodi's men gave the strawhats any degree of trouble. Hodi himself was defeated while underwater by zoro. And he only gave luffy some measure of trouble when the fight was underwater. And even then it kinda seems like sanji or zoro would have had an easier time with hodi anyways (specially sanji with his blue walk). If franky has some sort of underwater mode then odds are he has hodi beat too. And brook would probably at least win against the guy while on land.

I just said that the Straw Hats were fresh off from their training. If the New Fishman Pirates had encountered them two years earlier, they would've had a better chance.