American Politics

[xi0]

Hillary Clinton is a liar.

 

[SharkBait]

Wow the crowd went wild when Clinton accused Sanders of criticizing Obama's accomplishments and his leadership gap. Im glad theyve realized just how crazy Sanders is.

 

[M3J]

listening to bernie sanders on debates makes me so annoyed and agitated. He's so out there with ideas. Hilary sounds so strong.

Where's the lie in what Bernie said? You even showed what a hypocrite you and other republicans were. Want rights and freedom back and less government interference, but you guys have no problem with banning abortion and same sex marriage, even making the government try to outlaw that.

Hillary Clinton is a liar.

so are the republicans, but Sharkbait doesn't care as long as it serves his agenda.

Anyway, unless Bernie seems to be socially bad somehow, he's still the lesser evil of all the politicians. I'm glad most millennials are perceptive enough to vote for him.

 

[SharkBait]

Im not against social security to help the elderly who worked hard earlier in life. Sanders made it seem like to be a republican you have to be against supporting hardworling reitiree

 

[xi0]

Im not against social security to help the elderly who worked hard earlier in life. Sanders made it seem like to be a republican you have to be against supporting hardworling reitiree

Why do you keep emphasizing "hardworking" retirees? You do know that anyone who pays into SSI is entitled to receive money right? It has nothing to do with job performance or what they even did for a living. There's no discriminating there. I guess you think the disabled or the blind are just lazy and don't deserve any of it either?

He probably comes off that way because we all know Republicans would get rid of the program in a heartbeat if it wasn't for it being the most popular government program ever and the intense backlash any politician faces whenever they speak out against it or threaten it's existence.

 

[M3J]

To be a republican, you have to be against anything that's good for the poor and needy, and support anything that benefits the wealthy. Bernie is telling the truth about republicans.

I'm shocked he criticized Obama, if he did. What about? Obama did some pretty good things for the country, and I figured Bernie would be aware that the congress was actively working against Obama and the country.

 

[z.5]

listening to bernie sanders on debates makes me so annoyed and agitated. He's so out there with ideas. Hilary sounds so strong.

Yeah, if you ignore the fact that she is just saying whatever she thinks will get her elected - and not what she actually thinks or will do...
And ignore the fact that she flip flops around more than a freshly caught mackerel...

She sounds somewhere between (less than) 1% and minus 22.4% strong...

 

[kkck]

So.... people who don't need help should be helped and people on minumum wage deserve the poverty

Waiting on tables, flipping burgers, greeting people at the door to a supercenter, or even folding clothes isn't exactly hard work. These are tasks that dont take much brain power or even much in the way of doing anything strenuous. Ive never seen people get stress headaches or other issues related to working with brain power in these jobs. Most are so simple even high schools can do such jobs. These are just really lazy jobs and lazy people are in these jobs. Even if one is working multiple ones to get by then something is wrong, like a bad lifestyle decision was made at some point in time. Anyone has equal opportunity to work and find a way into a respectable job that provides financial stability in the context of today's economic marketplace thats full of opportunity. I dont see it as unfair when successful people have put in the time to work to get this sort of financial stability in todays marketplace. If you put in the work to be successful then its is only fair that you are rewarded with financial stability. If you are lazy then its only fair that one only gets a wage that corresponds to their type of output. These jobs don't even provide some sort of life changing revelation, successful jobs with well pay reward with life changes too, Doctors change lives, educators introduce people to a brand new world, scientists and engineers enhance the way of life, it is very fair that these people are rewarded with good pay while those doing mundane jobs are not. These people are the ones who deserve to be the most helped, discounts on purchases, discounts on health care, access to better healthcare, discounts of food and housing, discounts on the very basic needs in life.

First of all, it's simply not true that only lazy people do those jobs. It's one thing to do a part time job to get some extra spending money, it's another to have to make a living on it. Or raise a family on it. Or live with that while also paying for college. Which is a somewhat likely situation considering it takes actual skills to get higher paying jobs. So... you have people trying to raise families on... 7.5 an hour? Even merely paying for college is somewhat of a monumental task (hence US college students with so much debt).

Also worth noting, what you are suggesting about helping successful people is simply asinine. I mean, why? You are speaking specifically about helping people who by all accounts do not need help. People who already have financially stable, if not wealthy, positions. The stuff you mention would barely even make a dent on their overall lifestyles and long term financial security. In the end giving the people you mention the... "benefits" you mention would literally accomplish nothing. Except getting someone an extra iphone or buying a larger house I guess. Which isn't a bad thing but a reasonable society shouldn't take that as a priority when there are people struggling to make ends meet. In turn helping out people on the lower income areas of society would have precisely the opposite effect. For someone on minimum wage getting a break worth, say, 100 dollars would probably mean basic stuff like a decent meal, rent, extra tuition money, medicine money, transportation money.... In context basic necessities. Taking measures to help out people on lower income areas does not mean you are no longer living in a society where hard work isn't rewarded or that competition is being eliminated. It's actually the exact opposite, suddenly you have millions of people and families who are being crushed a little less by poverty. It's the exact sort of thing they need to be able to improve themselves. You'd have a number of people suddenly also competing for higher paying jobs or education or at least giving their kids a slightly better living which would in turn help a lot in terms of them having a chance at bettering themselves.

 

[xi0]

To be a republican, you have to be against anything that's good for the poor and needy, and support anything that benefits the wealthy. Bernie is telling the truth about republicans.

I'm shocked he criticized Obama, if he did. What about? Obama did some pretty good things for the country, and I figured Bernie would be aware that the congress was actively working against Obama and the country.

Huh? he referenced that in the debate last night dude. This is just misdirection from Clinton. Her latest play is to associate herself with Obama as much as possible, and she's quick to bring any criticisms that Bernie has made of Obama to light. Bernie merely had a blurb for Bill Press's book, which essentially made the case that Obama hasn't been progressive enough as President. And if you look at the facts, and if something like that matters to you, it's absolutely true. But Clinton and her center-left husband have no problem not being progressive enough, and she's already demonstrated that she'll say anything to win. Acting like if you're a liberal, the president is beyond criticism when you've criticized him yourself, is just disingenuous.

 

[M3J]

Huh? he referenced that in the debate last night dude. This is just misdirection from Clinton. Her latest play is to associate herself with Obama as much as possible, and she's quick to bring any criticisms that Bernie has made of Obama to light. Bernie merely had a blurb for Bill Press's book, which essentially made the case that Obama hasn't been progressive enough as President. And if you look at the facts, and if something like that matters to you, it's absolutely true. But Clinton and her center-left husband have no problem not being progressive enough, and she's already demonstrated that she'll say anything to win. Acting like if you're a liberal, the president is beyond criticism when you've criticized him yourself, is just disingenuous.

that's odd because I've read that Clinton campaign tried to distance themselves from Obama as much as possible due to his low approval, and now she's defending Obama? Very flip floppy.

But, is it Obama's fault that he wasn't progressive enough, or the politicians'? I sound like a broken record, but I'm 100% sure the politicians have been impeding Obama every step of the way. I can't believe people still wanna vote for her.

 

[SharkBait]

Why do you keep emphasizing "hardworking" retirees? You do know that anyone who pays into SSI is entitled to receive money right? It has nothing to do with job performance or what they even did for a living. There's no discriminating there. I guess you think the disabled or the blind are just lazy and don't deserve any of it either?

He probably comes off that way because we all know Republicans would get rid of the program in a heartbeat if it wasn't for it being the most popular government program ever and the intense backlash any politician faces whenever they speak out against it or threaten it's existence.

Retirees earned the right into Social Security but I also see numerous older people who are still working at Mickey D's cleaning tables or taking orders or working as greeters at WalMart or as school bus drivers or cafeteria service people in schools which is clearly implying that A) amounts given for it are way too low if people are having to take up jobs even in olde age, which implies they had made a bad lifestyle choice causing them to stay in some low brain power job and B) people are still taking up lazy jobs and trying to get by on these bad jobs. Its a merit based system so hardworking people actually get more out of it than lazy people.

1. Benefits are based on an individual’s average earnings during a lifetime of work under the Social Security system. The calculation is based on the 35 highest years of earnings. If an individual has years of low earnings or no earnings, Social Security may count those years to bring the total years to 35.⁴

I dont see what was wrong with my hardworking retirees statement.

I dont understand your part about disabled or the blind. Those people can get jobs. Did you forget that jobs cant discriminate on disabilities?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 12, 2016 ---

So.... people who don't need help should be helped and people on minumum wage deserve the poverty

First of all, it's simply not true that only lazy people do those jobs. It's one thing to do a part time job to get some extra spending money, it's another to have to make a living on it. Or raise a family on it. Or live with that while also paying for college. Which is a somewhat likely situation considering it takes actual skills to get higher paying jobs. So... you have people trying to raise families on... 7.5 an hour? Even merely paying for college is somewhat of a monumental task (hence US college students with so much debt).

Also worth noting, what you are suggesting about helping successful people is simply asinine. I mean, why? You are speaking specifically about helping people who by all accounts do not need help. People who already have financially stable, if not wealthy, positions. The stuff you mention would barely even make a dent on their overall lifestyles and long term financial security. In the end giving the people you mention the... "benefits" you mention would literally accomplish nothing. Except getting someone an extra iphone or buying a larger house I guess. Which isn't a bad thing but a reasonable society shouldn't take that as a priority when there are people struggling to make ends meet. In turn helping out people on the lower income areas of society would have precisely the opposite effect. For someone on minimum wage getting a break worth, say, 100 dollars would probably mean basic stuff like a decent meal, rent, extra tuition money, medicine money, transportation money.... In context basic necessities. Taking measures to help out people on lower income areas does not mean you are no longer living in a society where hard work isn't rewarded or that competition is being eliminated. It's actually the exact opposite, suddenly you have millions of people and families who are being crushed a little less by poverty. It's the exact sort of thing they need to be able to improve themselves. You'd have a number of people suddenly also competing for higher paying jobs or education or at least giving their kids a slightly better living which would in turn help a lot in terms of them having a chance at bettering themselves.

One only ends up in poverty due to a bad lifestyle decision. One only stays there due to picking up one of these low brain power jobs and just staying there. People are working by flipping burgers and waiting on tables upwards of ten years and trying to raise a family on such a hourly salary. Its not right and those jobs werent created to do that. Why should these people get many benefits from the govt while I and others get nothing? I didnt go to college just to be taxed like crazy and see my money go to help lazy people in need of healthcare or get discounts on food. I want discounts too please. I would think one would feel better about the country when people who are in hardworking jobs and able to contribute to the economy as consumers and who made good lifestyle choices is getting more benefits than others. You reap what you sow. Its unfair that people choosing to remain in those jobs are getting tons of help. The country would be better by helping hardworking financially stable folks by making them even more stable than they are and allowing them to contribute more to the economy by buying more goods and services. This will, by the way, spawn more job since there is now more demand for lots of products ans entertainment services. This is the win win situation that we need. The lazy will get to see the hardworking succeed and finally feel inspired to take up better jobs enabling them to rise through the ranks. Once they help themselves then they can become hardworking financially stable citizens. Why benefit the lazy when it does nothing? They will either hoard money from discounts, buy illegal drugs, or waste it on a quick meal. A hardworking family would buy say a new tv which leads to subscribing for a digital service which supports many workers and content creators and so on.

 

[M3J]

"Bad lifestyle decision." But it's okay for Wall Street people to cheat people and commit frauds, and it's okay for republican candidates and politicians to lie outright and be okay with minorities being attacked at their rallies by their supporters. Christ. I hope people like you and Trump and Cruz never become presidents, you'd only destroy the country and make the class and income gap even wider.

I wonder how republicans feel about Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln, who cared for the little people, unlike the republicans. Though, I think Teddy was racist in some way and wanted immigrants to assimilate with the country.

 

[z.5]

How wonderful it must be to live in SharkBait's idealized world - where there are plenty of jobs, no one is 'lazy' or makes 'poor life decisions' (like being born into wealth - AKA the Trumpmeister) and no one need perform 'menial' jobs.

It sounds blissful...

No waiters - customers can damn well serve themselves!
No cleaners - I mean, who should clean up someone elses mess?!?
No bus drivers - what kind of lazy bum expects someone else to drive them around?!? These kids can just walk themselves to school... the lazy animals...

 

[M3J]

Yeah because carrying heavy and hot plates and trays of food is definitely lazy, or folding clothes every five minutes that customers mess up definitely makes the person lazy! TOTALLY NOT LAZY TO SIT AT A DESK AND PUSH PENCILS OR USE BRAINPOWER! Everyone has equal opportunity even if they are dirt poor and can't afford the same opportunity as a wealthy person, and if they don't have a good job, it's their fault for making bad lifestyle decision and not the company, job market, or economy's fault!

LOGIC, SO MUCH LOGIC

 

[SharkBait]

"Bad lifestyle decision." But it's okay for Wall Street people to cheat people and commit frauds, and it's okay for republican candidates and politicians to lie outright and be okay with minorities being attacked at their rallies by their supporters. Christ. I hope people like you and Trump and Cruz never become presidents, you'd only destroy the country and make the class and income gap even wider.

I wonder how republicans feel about Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln, who cared for the little people, unlike the republicans. Though, I think Teddy was racist in some way and wanted immigrants to assimilate with the country.

Why do you and Sanders keep saying that. There are more people working in these jobs than there are execs on wall street.

 

[M3J]

Because people who commit crimes that has bad consequences should be punished instead of people who smoke weed. Why should they continue to live a decent life and make money for hurting others, but these "lazy" people live in poverty no matter how hard they work?

 

[SharkBait]

Because people who commit crimes that has bad consequences should be punished instead of people who smoke weed. Why should they continue to live a decent life and make money for hurting others, but these "lazy" people live in poverty no matter how hard they work?

If one is living in poverty then they shouldnt be spending money on illegal drugs. That money could go towards getting a better job.

I just dont see how carrying hot plates or refilling customers waters or folding clothes (and they dont fold them that often have you not seen how messy some department stores are? The workers are hardly working.) is hard work.

The comments made here are odd. Are you one of the people that complain when good students get rewarded with a pizza party in grade school? Or when good students get honor roll?

 

[M3J]

Drug that has no reason to be illegal, and I don't see how the money they save can be used to get a better job. Or that there's any guarantee of them getting a better job. Seems you're more likely to hire an incompetent white person over a skilled black person just because you feel more comfortable, and I'm sure there are many employers that feel the same.

Have you carried hot and heavy plates? Do you know anything about waiting on people, or are you just going with your assumptions and what ignorant people have said? Did you take into accounts that some department stores have messy clothes because there are a lot of people picking up clothes and dropping them back, and that there may not be enough employees to make sure the clothes are organized every minute of the day? I've gone to many department stores, and I've seen many employees fold clothes, stock stuff, and even lift heavy stuff.

That comparison makes no sense. But as long as the students worked hard to get good grades and didn't cheat or anything, I wouldn't mind or care if they got rewarded or got honor roll. What you're suggesting is that people who don't need help should get more help while people who actually need help can fuck off, which also contradicts you being pro-life as you don't care about the lives of people who live in poverty. I hope one day, you get to experience real life and open your eyes.

 

[kkck]

One only ends up in poverty due to a bad lifestyle decision. One only stays there due to picking up one of these low brain power jobs and just staying there. People are working by flipping burgers and waiting on tables upwards of ten years and trying to raise a family on such a hourly salary. Its not right and those jobs werent created to do that. Why should these people get many benefits from the govt while I and others get nothing? I didnt go to college just to be taxed like crazy and see my money go to help lazy people in need of healthcare or get discounts on food. I want discounts too please. I would think one would feel better about the country when people who are in hardworking jobs and able to contribute to the economy as consumers and who made good lifestyle choices is getting more benefits than others. You reap what you sow. Its unfair that people choosing to remain in those jobs are getting tons of help. The country would be better by helping hardworking financially stable folks by making them even more stable than they are and allowing them to contribute more to the economy by buying more goods and services. This will, by the way, spawn more job since there is now more demand for lots of products ans entertainment services. This is the win win situation that we need. The lazy will get to see the hardworking succeed and finally feel inspired to take up better jobs enabling them to rise through the ranks. Once they help themselves then they can become hardworking financially stable citizens. Why benefit the lazy when it does nothing? They will either hoard money from discounts, buy illegal drugs, or waste it on a quick meal. A hardworking family would buy say a new tv which leads to subscribing for a digital service which supports many workers and content creators and so on.

To put it in simple terms, absolutely everything in this paragraph is wrong.

People don't just end up in poverty due to bad "lifestyle" decisions. There is the simple fact that there are people born into that level of poverty and raised by people in that level of poverty. This sounds like you are implying pretty much everyone starts out "well" and they end up poor because they made bad choices. Which is simply not the case. Granted, there are situations where this does happen. But it would apply for someone who was born into a relatively good position and then simply fucked absolutely everything up. Which is a scenario which can't logically apply to people born into poverty.

Also, are you delusional? You think the vast majority of people simply choose poverty? That's outright idiotic... The issue is in no form of context people merely wanting to work harder and take better jobs. Just wanting a better job won't get you one. A job that pays more in almost all scenarios requires skills. Acquiring skills requires time and practice. Practice usually requires a school or a university or a class. So... how does someone barely getting by supposed to be able to put it in the time and money which is required to do this? Now, it is not impossible to do but.... You are talking about someone making around 15-20k a year (assuming a full time job and 20k is already well above minimum wage) somehow pulling off a full time job, eating, transport, housing and every other living expense along with getting an education.

What does hoarding money from discounts mean? Waste money on a quick meal? Why is suddenly a meal a waste? We are talking about people who might very well have to choose between a meal and say, medicine or transport. Fuck, if they get some extra cash and use it on a meal that's a good thing. Heck, that money used on food would support people making and selling food. Unless part of their punishment for their poor decision to be poor is to have to skip meals or something. Putting more money in the hands of poorer people would help the economy. The vast majority of them would spend in in basic necessities such as housing, food and medicine and some even in educations. Which would in turn boost the economy.

Also, my point here has been about wages, not taxes. Although since you mention that, the idea that taxes invariably help the economy is simply wrong. They can do that, but not always. Take the bush tax cuts. How much did they boost the US economy? As far as I can tell there isn't a single reasonable source which suggests they were effective on any degree in that regard (it did not pay for itself given that the deficit increased and as far as I can tell US incomes decreased after that).

 

[SharkBait]

Drug that has no reason to be illegal, and I don't see how the money they save can be used to get a better job. Or that there's any guarantee of them getting a better job. Seems you're more likely to hire an incompetent white person over a skilled black person just because you feel more comfortable, and I'm sure there are many employers that feel the same.

Have you carried hot and heavy plates? Do you know anything about waiting on people, or are you just going with your assumptions and what ignorant people have said? Did you take into accounts that some department stores have messy clothes because there are a lot of people picking up clothes and dropping them back, and that there may not be enough employees to make sure the clothes are organized every minute of the day? I've gone to many department stores, and I've seen many employees fold clothes, stock stuff, and even lift heavy stuff.

That comparison makes no sense. But as long as the students worked hard to get good grades and didn't cheat or anything, I wouldn't mind or care if they got rewarded or got honor roll. What you're suggesting is that people who don't need help should get more help while people who actually need help can fuck off, which also contradicts you being pro-life as you don't care about the lives of people who live in poverty. I hope one day, you get to experience real life and open your eyes.

The comparison makes sense. Youre implying that those that are doing good in life ought not be rewarded and if they do then they should be scrutinized. So I was thinking that you would be one to grumble and gnash your teeth at those kids who got honor roll etc.