Discussion Criticism Thread

[Rescorlian]

Since I already said my critics, I'll add an other one, and that is, WHY THE FUCK WOULD HAWK SURVIVED A NEAR FULL COMBO FROM DERRIERE

 

[TarXan]

I already stressed that the Commandments were being taken out because t

Since I already said my critics, I'll add an other one, and that is, WHY THE FUCK WOULD HAWK SURVIVED A NEAR FULL COMBO FROM DERRIERE

Hawk's in the story for Comedic purposes lol plus how does this surprise you when he survived Dark Snow -___-

 

[Bigbootyjudy]

This thread is unbearably unnecessary, the 2nd arc isn't even close to being over, we don't even have confirmation if anyone's dead, not even Galand

The Commandments were put out of commission due to having immense pride and stupidity, that is all

You guys are acting like they were defeated by the weaker main characters in a physically 1v1 confrontation

This thread should've been made AFTER this arc was over, as for character developement, the series isn't even close to being over -___-

We still don't know shit about 70% of the characters back stories and origins, Nakaba reveals things when it's necessary to the plot, you guys should known that by now

The only person who I am nearly 100% sure is dead is Galan. There's still a chance that Mera is alive (we haven't seen Elaines body yet), but it's not likely. Greyroad has only been captured, not killed. I find it laughable that anyone thinks Derr or Monspeet is dead, and it's practically confirmed that the only reason Estarossa and Zeldris and Escanor aren't there is because Nakaba wanted to focus on everyone else, and if they were there it would be too op. So he put them out of commission. This is Nakaba's modus operandi.

I can understand people complaining about certain complainers, because some people had been complaining every single chapter, but I also like bitching in the spoiler discussion thread. There's nothing wrong with a little bitching. So, yeah, I complain about this complaint thread that was created to cordone off the complainers. hah.

Since I already said my critics, I'll add an other one, and that is, WHY THE FUCK WOULD HAWK SURVIVED A NEAR FULL COMBO FROM DERRIERE

Hawk survived black snow, he died and was revived (not even by Elizabeth's magic, just his own), ate some demon meat and didn't explode, aaannnddd he's comic relief. And Nakaba LOVES him. He ain't dying anytime soon.

 

[Yakkun]

Hawk so far survived anything thrown at him, mostly in a rather comedic fashion. He simply is a mascot and to some extend a gag character who also serves as the conciousness of the audience and is a bit of a self-insert of Nakaba, too. All in all he has a special role in the manga and is not really all that affected by the in-verse events unless it is for plot purposes. I don't mind because he isn't singlehandedly beating powerful enemies in one vs one battles which would make zero sense. It is more like he gets people caught up in hilarious situations and then benefits from the outcome making him believe he is super powerful and amazing.

 

[grimreaper444]

My criticisms? I don't have anything against the first arc. Loved it and it was arguably the best 100 or so chapters I have read in a shonen.

The problem comes from the second arc.

It started off great until it got to the druids. Those chapters weren't bad but that's where we started to see the cracks appearing. Why did Gilthunder and Hauser need an entire chapter showing them training? It was bad pacing and all that was needed was to say they got stronger. The training could have been offscreened.

Then it got to the part with the maze. There were several chapters showing off useless shit, like the trolls that Diane fought in the beginning of the series. This is where the pacing starts to get really wonky. I am not going to criticize all the new characters introduced, they might serve a purpose. But the problem is that the series goes from 0 to 100 an then back to 0 to a 100 at this point. We have a slow fight between King/Diane and those fodder demons. And then Meliodas later starts to fight with Glox and Dolar and then the rest of the commandments appear and kill him. Its nonsense. And then we get that chapter with the fodder knight complaining about being run out and he got way too much screen time. And now we are in a final battle type situation. Its extremely bad pacing.

And then there are the lack of deaths. Yeah, shonen doesn't kill people, but this series is almost as bad as DBZ when it comes to not having consequences, but it was okay in that series, but here, it just feels cheap. Zaratras came back, Hendrickson and Dreyfus are still alive and seem to not be punished, Veronica lived. Even Hauser lived with that huge ass hole in his stomach.

Oh and let's not forget how so many sins are forgotten about this arc. The first arc had the sins working together and their interactions were fun. Now? Diane still hasn't gotten her memory back. Gowther is still a bad guy. Ban is reduced to fodder, and King is still forgotten mostly. Its not fun like it used to be.

 

[Demonspeed]

There are more deaths of named characters than in the previous arc though. There is only one survivor among the Weird Fangs, Denzel and Dogget died. Also Marmas and probably some other characters I forgot.

 

[HereNThere]

There are more deaths of named characters than in the previous arc though. There is only one survivor among the Weird Fangs, Denzel and Dogget died. Also Marmas and probably some other characters I forgot.

Denzel is probably the only noteworthy character that died on that list.

The death only death that bothered me was, honestly, Veronica's. I thought that was some bullshit. The others are pretty plausible enough for the story for me to let slide.

Zaratras' character probably would have better if he'd stayed dead, but his coming back is still plausible. Merascylla's main purpose was probably just to bring him and Elaine back seeing as the whole zombie thing was dropped after the Raven Town arc. Should've still been a few zombies running around. Hell, sine Zaratras is still kicking, they're should still be zombies running around.

 

[BaseNeptune]

I liked Denzel, he had some cool lines. Shame he got taken out the way he did, not that it was bad, just felt like he deserved more.

 

[Xenotosgolgia]

Denzel is probably the only noteworthy character that died on that list.

The death only death that bothered me was, honestly, Veronica's. I thought that was some bullshit. The others are pretty plausible enough for the story for me to let slide.

Zaratras' character probably would have better if he'd stayed dead, but his coming back is still plausible. Merascylla's main purpose was probably just to bring him and Elaine back seeing as the whole zombie thing was dropped after the Raven Town arc. Should've still been a few zombies running around. Hell, sine Zaratras is still kicking, they're should still be zombies running around.

Also there is no feeling in any of these deaths! If you were invested in a holy knight I feel bad for you cause Nakaba is gonna kill your favorite off and no one in the story would acknowledge it.

 

[Gaggen]

Estarossa' comments about meliodas in his prime made the gods cower in his presence. I feel it doesnt make sense because estarossa said both godesses and demons were equal in power. Once stigma was formed, the godesses had more than enough allies to take down meliodas and co. Then why they didnt make their move to exterminate the demons when they could???? So there can be 2 possibilities, 1. estarossa lied to boast his idol by being a loyal fanboy or 2. Nakaba's inconsistency.... what do you guys think about it????

 

[kkck]

Also there is no feeling in any of these deaths! If you were invested in a holy knight I feel bad for you cause Nakaba is gonna kill your favorite off and no one in the story would acknowledge it.

I think the main issue regarding the HK is how useless they are. The strongest holy knights could be literally 10 times stronger and they would still be garbage for the 10 commandments or the sins. I mean, the strongest humans so far are dreyfus and zaratras and even they clock at about 3100 and 3000. At tens times that zaratras would be about equal with fraudrin, a third rate substitute who was not even given a commandment. Well, maybe they would be a bit stronger due to their magics actually being worth something (unlike fraudrin's whose magic makes him really big without increasing his strength stat). But even then, still well weaker than the other commandments as far as we can tell. Even merascylla has a more than respectable 34k along with soul manipulation abilities which have proven deadly to anyone. Then greylord with 39k and a rather dangerous commandment, galan with 27 k that turn into 40k, greylord with 39 and a rather dangerous commandment, and so on...

Basically, an scenario where a human can take a commandment head on is virtually non existent. Some time ago merlin made the point that the collective holy knights had about 150k pl but that is entirely irrelevant to the current holy war. The most they could do is kinda stand up to the demon militia, red and grey demons and that is still kinda irrelevant because a single commandment could obliterate either in an instant. We saw how the 150k performed against hendricksen's 5k after all. The most we can ever aspire to in this regard is a commandment being defeated by a human by getting caught of guard or perhaps some insane combination of magics which affect the user regardless of PL.... And even that is a huge stretch considering how useless non-escanor humans were against the commandments after presumably 1 month worth of preparation.

 

[Isaiah Thomas]

I think the main issue regarding the HK is how useless they are. The strongest holy knights could be literally 10 times stronger and they would still be garbage for the 10 commandments or the sins. I mean, the strongest humans so far are dreyfus and zaratras and even they clock at about 3100 and 3000. At tens times that zaratras would be about equal with fraudrin, a third rate substitute who was not even given a commandment. Well, maybe they would be a bit stronger due to their magics actually being worth something (unlike fraudrin's whose magic makes him really big without increasing his strength stat). But even then, still well weaker than the other commandments as far as we can tell. Even merascylla has a more than respectable 34k along with soul manipulation abilities which have proven deadly to anyone. Then greylord with 39k and a rather dangerous commandment, galan with 27 k that turn into 40k, greylord with 39 and a rather dangerous commandment, and so on...

Basically, an scenario where a human can take a commandment head on is virtually non existent. Some time ago merlin made the point that the collective holy knights had about 150k pl but that is entirely irrelevant to the current holy war. The most they could do is kinda stand up to the demon militia, red and grey demons and that is still kinda irrelevant because a single commandment could obliterate either in an instant. We saw how the 150k performed against hendricksen's 5k after all. The most we can ever aspire to in this regard is a commandment being defeated by a human by getting caught of guard or perhaps some insane combination of magics which affect the user regardless of PL.... And even that is a huge stretch considering how useless non-escanor humans were against the commandments after presumably 1 month worth of preparation.

Arthur & Escanor are the humans only hope 2 take on a Commandment solo.

 

[Xenotosgolgia]

I think the main issue regarding the HK is how useless they are. The strongest holy knights could be literally 10 times stronger and they would still be garbage for the 10 commandments or the sins. I mean, the strongest humans so far are dreyfus and zaratras and even they clock at about 3100 and 3000. At tens times that zaratras would be about equal with fraudrin, a third rate substitute who was not even given a commandment. Well, maybe they would be a bit stronger due to their magics actually being worth something (unlike fraudrin's whose magic makes him really big without increasing his strength stat). But even then, still well weaker than the other commandments as far as we can tell. Even merascylla has a more than respectable 34k along with soul manipulation abilities which have proven deadly to anyone. Then greylord with 39k and a rather dangerous commandment, galan with 27 k that turn into 40k, greylord with 39 and a rather dangerous commandment, and so on...

Basically, an scenario where a human can take a commandment head on is virtually non existent. Some time ago merlin made the point that the collective holy knights had about 150k pl but that is entirely irrelevant to the current holy war. The most they could do is kinda stand up to the demon militia, red and grey demons and that is still kinda irrelevant because a single commandment could obliterate either in an instant. We saw how the 150k performed against hendricksen's 5k after all. The most we can ever aspire to in this regard is a commandment being defeated by a human by getting caught of guard or perhaps some insane combination of magics which affect the user regardless of PL.... And even that is a huge stretch considering how useless non-escanor humans were against the commandments after presumably 1 month worth of preparation.

This is a bad shonen trope in general in my opinion. The worst offender is probably Naruto though if I were to be honest. Still it only feels like those characters died cause look he's not gonna kill a 7 deadly sin and they can't go around killing nameless fodder for a whole arc since that wouldn't be entertaining enough. Even though he killed characters that nobody would really remember or who just got introduced in the same arc and yet the villains of the last arc get to live.

 

[Isaiah Thomas]

Estarossa' comments about meliodas in his prime made the gods cower in his presence. I feel it doesnt make sense because estarossa said both godesses and demons were equal in power. Once stigma was formed, the godesses had more than enough allies to take down meliodas and co. Then why they didnt make their move to exterminate the demons when they could???? So there can be 2 possibilities, 1. estarossa lied to boast his idol by being a loyal fanboy or 2. Nakaba's inconsistency.... what do you guys think about it????

Had it occur 2 you that Prime Meliodas being with the Demons was the sole reason that they were equals

Spoiler

Hell Derrière almost died 2 Nerobasta

Spoiler

& According 2 Monspeet she would of died 2 one of the 4 angels.

Spoiler

I could be wrong but it look like Stigma was form after Meliodas left the Demons so Nakaba isn't inconsistent Prime Meliodas is just seriously OP.

 

[Gaggen]

Had it occur 2 you that Prime Meliodas being with the Demons was the sole reason that they were equals

Spoiler

Hell Derrière almost died 2 Nerobasta

Spoiler

& According 2 Monspeet she would of died 2 one of the 4 angels.

Spoiler

I could be wrong but it look like Stigma was form after Meliodas left the Demons so Nakaba isn't inconsistent Prime Meliodas is just seriously OP.

If what you said is true, then they could right away wipe the floor with rest of the demons by themselves, why forming stigma when they can crush tens of thousands of them at once with an ark.....
4 of them is more than enough to wipe off the rest of the commandments. While their fodders battle fodders. And meliodas being op means he can kill any godesses at sight without thinking twice. And dont forget they had the vampire clan siding them all the way after some time zeldris takes the lead......

 

[oxtopus]

If what you said is true, then they could right away wipe the floor with rest of the demons by themselves, why forming stigma when they can crush tens of thousands of them at once with an ark.....
4 of them is more than enough to wipe off the rest of the commandments. While their fodders battle fodders. And meliodas being op means he can kill any godesses at sight without thinking twice. And dont forget they had the vampire clan siding them all the way after some time zeldris takes the lead......

Prime meliodas was said to be the strongest demon,so only the goddess leader could have stood a chance against him. The demons and goddess were said to be equal and the reason the goddess clan could not start an all out war was because it would have been too close with most of two clans being destroyed and anyone could come out as the victor,most likely the demons would.

I bet the goddess would not take that chance since it could have led to the end of their race.
Thats why they started the war when meliodas defected cause the demons lost a huge force of their army.

Then there is the goddesses arch angels who were supposed to be on par with the old ten commandments.
If there were on par with meliodas tc,then shouldn't wipe the floor with the current TC,especially since they list two of their powerful members(meliodas and gowther) and two died(aranak and Zeno).

Well... It could be that meliodas TC was possibly stronger than the archangels. Plus there is the major fact that three of meliodas TC members were still kids and zeldris was probably not even born then.

So the inclusion of zeldris,grayroad? and a fully matured, estarossa, merascylla and derriere was enough to bring the commandments and arch angels to a similar level.
And as for the goddess forming stigma,I guess it was to increase their odds against the demons since the demon clan forces could have been higher than that of the goddesses. Also,the demon clan seem to have generally stronger members than the other clans plus a good amount of reasonably strong indivuals apart from the commandments(There was fraudrin before joining tc and there's also the black knights and likely more).

 

[Gaggen]

Prime meliodas was said to be the strongest demon,so only the goddess leader could have stood a chance against him. The demons and goddess were said to be equal and the reason the goddess clan could not start an all out war was because it would have been too close with most of two clans being destroyed and anyone could come out as the victor,most likely the demons would.

I bet the goddess would not take that chance since it could have led to the end of their race.
Thats why they started the war when meliodas defected cause the demons lost a huge force of their army.

Then there is the goddesses arch angels who were supposed to be on par with the old ten commandments.
If there were on par with meliodas tc,then shouldn't wipe the floor with the current TC,especially since they list two of their powerful members(meliodas and gowther) and two died(aranak and Zeno).

Well... It could be that meliodas TC was possibly stronger than the archangels. Plus there is the major fact that three of meliodas TC members were still kids and zeldris was probably not even born then.

So the inclusion of zeldris,grayroad? and a fully matured, estarossa, merascylla and derriere was enough to bring the commandments and arch angels to a similar level.
And as for the goddess forming stigma,I guess it was to increase their odds against the demons since the demon clan forces could have been higher than that of the goddesses. Also,the demon clan seem to have generally stronger members than the other clans plus a good amount of reasonably strong indivuals apart from the commandments(There was fraudrin before joining tc and there's also the black knights and likely more).

I agree with 90% of your facts and statements but Stood a chance is a bad word to use. If meliodas was strongest than every godesses especially the great four and their chief, why not label him as the strongest being instead of strongest demon. If the godesses were truly afraid of him he should easily be stronger than anyone of them and should be the strongest being. I truly feel estarossa/nakaba exaggerated a bit with his statements.....

 

[oxtopus]

I agree with 90% of your facts and statements but Stood a chance is a bad word to use. If meliodas was strongest than every godesses especially the great four and their chief, why not label him as the strongest being instead of strongest demon. If the godesses were truly afraid of him he should easily be stronger than anyone of them and should be the strongest being. I truly feel estarossa/nakaba exaggerated a bit with his statements.....

I kind of doubt meliodas was the strongest being,the dk and him were most likely equals and as for the goddess,just because their clan feared meliodas doesn't mean their leader also does. For example most demons may shit their pants in front of noon escanor but the demon king wouldn't fear him. The goddess leader should be up there with meliodas and the DK,their power are likely very close but meliodas wrath could make him the victor in a 1 on 1 battle.

 

[kkck]

I kind of doubt meliodas was the strongest being,the dk and him were most likely equals and as for the goddess,just because their clan feared meliodas doesn't mean their leader also does. For example most demons may shit their pants in front of noon escanor but the demon king wouldn't fear him. The goddess leader should be up there with meliodas and the DK,their power are likely very close but meliodas wrath could make him the victor in a 1 on 1 battle.

We don't really know that to be honest. From what I gather meliodas has to be either at or above the 4 archangels for him to have been feared as he was. The 4 archangels are most likely insanely strong however there is still the issue of how few of them they are. If only one of them falls, the blow to the goddesses would be much greater than say, a single commandment falling. With that in mind it makes sense the goddesses would be wary of meliodas even if he was merely their equal. Also worth noting, the power we have seen from mel is still not quite at it's top. Meliodas as we have seen in the flashback appears to have the same amount of power as he has in the present. And the form he had in estarosa's flashback was clearly stronger as far as I can tell anyways. If current mel is comparable to the 4 archangels, then meliodas as estarosa remembered him is clearly more powerful than the archangels.

Also worth noting, we have not even noon escanor. We saw 11:30 escanor and even then he exerted himself just a bit. I maintain the guy normally tries to keep his power as restrained as possible and he can at will merely exert himself to skyrocket his power at any time he pleases. Odds are the time of the day does place a limit on his power but he has yet to exert himself at any time to his full capacity. Quite frankly, I don't think he even needs to be near noon to beat estarosa. Escanor is a living embodiment of the sun, what is the speck of light the 4 archangels can conjure next to that? When it comes to escanor, the issue is not whether he is stronger than any enemy he can face. It's whether actually gets to unleash his full might upon the microbes that dare threaten the sun. Take the fight against estarosa. Escanor couldn't unleash his power being so close to so many ordinary people. But once escanor threw estarosa across the country escanor went and overwhelmed estarosa like the tiny speck of darkness he is compared to the sun. When escanor battles again it will be the same thing. Is it daytime? Can he use his power without obliterating the people he is trying to protect? Even against the goddesses. Maybe against the 4 archangels we will finally see the full amount of power escanor can draw before noon. And maybe against them his actual full might at noon will be relevant. But even then I would argue any one of them would be vastly outclassed. Unless there is a goddess out there that has power comparable to the actual and literal sun the simple reality is that escanor will remain unmatched provided the circumstances where he can draw his full power are met.

 

[Tavore]

I say Goddess leader was the strongest being back. If Meliodas was stronger than s/he he and the Demon King could of taken care off the entire Goddesess clan themselves. Instead they had to settle for a truce between there clans. He's also only refered to as the strongest Demon not being.