Discussion The Demon clan

[oxtopus]

Six black knights... It seems nakaba is going to use this to redeem himself from the failure trash that is called the ten commandments.
But you'd think after being called the most elite of the elite demons that they'd be the strongest demon group but know we know they aren't.

Why do i think the six black knights are stronger? Well that would be because :--

. Nerobasta comments about three strong guys(and meliodas) sent to drive away one commandment being too much. Making it seem the commandment aren't that major.

. An archangel being said to have higher magical power than the commandments level.

. The statement by monspiet that
just one ark from an archangel could kill,derriere the fourth/fifth strongest commandment.

. The arch angels being 4, and the commandments 10. Shows how much of an individual power difference.

. If the commandments were truly the strongest demon group but their top members can be killed by a single ark from an arch angel,wouldn't the goddess clan have easily beaten the demons unless the demons had members stronger than the commandments which are more of a match for the arch angels?

. The commandments being stated to be able to give a good the demon clan six black knights a good challenge,would mean the six black knights are generally stronger,since they're numbers are six and the commandments are ten. Plus the way the statement was said,kinda implied the black knights were the stronger group???

Well,I'm interested in the demon clan black knights,can't wait for them to be introduced. I hope nakaba doesn't make the same mistakes he made with the Tc, with this new group. Honestly,I'm tired of the commandments and eager to move on to something new. But i don't think they are going to be introduced soon.
I'm guessing their power-levels would not be that much higher than the commandments. But I expect their pl to be in the 60k range with their strongest member(s) having a pl of 70k possibly or very close to it.

So,what are your thoughts on them?

 

[HereNThere]

I was waiting on another translation, because, when I read the chapter, I thought it was implying that the 10C were superior to the Black Knights.

If that isn't the case and they are stronger than the 10C, well, I'm just going to have to wait and see. My first instinct is that it is another case of Nakaba making a retroactive change to the series, mostly due to the fact that the series had established that the 10C were the elite force under the Demon King. But now there is actually another group that are potentially more powerful than that group. I'm going to need a decent explanation on how they work in before I can judge them though.

Also raises the question of why Mel wasn't apart of that group and was slumming it with the 10C if he was that much more powerful.

 

[Demonspeed]

Monspiet didn't say one Ark from an Archangel could kill Derrierie, he said it would be a dangerous opponent.

Not sure if they are stronger, but the text is implies that their level of strength is similar overall. I still think that if they are that strong, they didn't appear because they are not working for the Demon King, like many black knights in fiction. The Commandments are like the Holy Knights while the black nights are something else. If Merlin is the daughter of a Demon he might be among these guys(Beliaruin?)

 

[oxtopus]

Monspiet didn't say one Ark from an Archangel could kill Derrierie, he said it would be a dangerous opponent.

Not sure if they are stronger, but the text is implies that their level of strength is similar overall. I still think that if they are that strong, they didn't appear because they are not working for the Demon King, like many black knights in fiction. The Commandments are like the Holy Knights while the black nights are something else. If Merlin is the daughter of a Demon he might be among these guys(Beliaruin?)

Really? Cause after derriere over-powered nerobasta's ark,i remember monspiet stating that if it was an arch angel that situation would have ended up different.

Meaning she could have been eradicated and if Elizabeth mini-ark could destroy her fore-arm ,then I believe monspiet statement is correct.

About,the black knights, all their members should be at least high tier TC level ( zeldris and estarossa level) so there wouldn't be too much of a power difference,but they will be individually stronger than the TC. Merlin is probably not one of them cause the TC should have some knowledge about the black knights and if Merlin was among them,fraudrin and greyroad should have easily recognized her.

I don't see any point of them being introduced if they are indeed weaker than the TC. Honestly, them being stronger than the TC is the most logical option here.

The TC have already been humiliated,with some of their members dead. It would be stupid to bring them back as main villains because they are going to lose again especially with meliodas regaining his prime power. They already had their moment where they killed meliodas and took over brittainia for a month. They don't hold much relevance again.

Now,this would be the best time to introduce the black knights as the new main villains and they have to be better than the commandments.

If the commandments are strongest group,then the next best thing we can get from the demon clan is their King,since the commandments are pretty much useless now.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2017 ---

I was waiting on another translation, because, when I read the chapter, I thought it was implying that the 10C were superior to the Black Knights.

If that isn't the case and they are stronger than the 10C, well, I'm just going to have to wait and see. My first instinct is that it is another case of Nakaba making a retroactive change to the series, mostly due to the fact that the series had established that the 10C were the elite force under the Demon King. But now there is actually another group that are potentially more powerful than that group. I'm going to need a decent explanation on how they work in before I can judge them though.

Also raises the question of why Mel wasn't apart of that group and was slumming it with the 10C if he was that much more powerful.

If they are weaker than TC then they will not be introduced as the main villains in the main story,but could still be of some use in the story.
It's most likely they aren't under the demon king and part of his army. I see them as a group that does whatever they want whenever,with total independence,they could even be some sorts of mercenaries. But it's still too early to tell. More information is needed.

 

[Gallon]

I'm pretty sure Nerobasta meant Elizabeth, Gloxinia (King), and Dolor (Diane) as far as fighting Karmadios is concerned - they don't seem to acknowledge Meliodas at all. But of course she'd make it seem like nothing major, as Dolor and Gloxinia's power levels are insane as kings of the giants and fairies respectively, and on top of that, the goddess clan's princess (which is not yet confirmed) aided them - they should have no issues with taking down one of the Ten Commandments, as at least two of those are Commandment level alone.

But either way, the Ten Commandments have been mentioned to be the most elite group, and on top of that, the most fearsome demon was one of the Ten Commandments, not one of the Six Black Knights, so I see the latter as the Pleiades version of Liones, with the TC being the Seven Deadly Sins' parallel.

Ah, and I feel like the Six Black Knights are the human-looking members of the demons in the Holy War poster/image (lower right corner):

Spoiler

 

[kkck]

I wouldn't expect there to be anything above the ten commandments when it comes to the demon clan. It is entirely possible that the black knights are simply lesser members of the demon clans army. As in, ruby class holy knights vs diamond class ones. Or Nerobasta, corporate lance IIRC... And they could be pretty damn strong. The commandments so far have PLs above the 30k range (except for galan though his' increases with his ability) so perhaps we are talking about warriors who would be between the 10k and 30k level. Or in any case, stronger than the red, blue and grey demons and albions who are deemed as toys.

 

[Yakkun]

I don't think too highly of those six black knights. For starters, we don't even know if they are still alive in the present timeline, it is possible that they are not. Then it just seems weird to me that the demon king would bestow his ten elite warriors personally with their decrees as well as the whole fuss he makes over Meliodas' importance for the demon clan and then still have another group of knights even above them. Also, the way I interpreted the talk in the chapter made it sound like the stigma alliance gave them a run for their money. If that was the case, then some random fodders with no name were pushing them - numbers aren't nearly as relevant here, it's like claiming it would have made a difference if there had been hundred or fivehundred generic holy knights vs Grey Hendrickson at the capital. The power gap seems individually too high if they are supposed to be even remotely special knights among the demon clan. I mean, even faceless random grey demons can level townships on their own....

If those black knights were above the 10C then the power creep would become even more ridiculous than it already is. I doubt they are much of a thing, at least when compared to the Ten Commandments.

 

[kkck]

We know for a fact that the 10 commandments are the demon clan's elite force. We have known that for a while. It stands to reason that the black knights would be a lesser order than the ten commandments.

 

[oxtopus]

I'm pretty sure Nerobasta meant Elizabeth, Gloxinia (King), and Dolor (Diane) as far as fighting Karmadios is concerned - they don't seem to acknowledge Meliodas at all. But of course she'd make it seem like nothing major, as Dolor and Gloxinia's power levels are insane as kings of the giants and fairies respectively, and on top of that, the goddess clan's princess (which is not yet confirmed) aided them - they should have no issues with taking down one of the Ten Commandments, as at least two of those are Commandment level alone.

But either way, the Ten Commandments have been mentioned to be the most elite group, and on top of that, the most fearsome demon was one of the Ten Commandments, not one of the Six Black Knights, so I see the latter as the Pleiades version of Liones, with the TC being the Seven Deadly Sins' parallel.

Ah, and I feel like the Six Black Knights are the human-looking members of the demons in the Holy War poster/image (lower right corner):

Spoiler

Can't believe i'm just noticing it now that the giant in the demons side is karmadios. Makes me wonder if anyone else important in the poster would be added to the main story.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2017 ---

I don't think too highly of those six black knights. For starters, we don't even know if they are still alive in the present timeline, it is possible that they are not. Then it just seems weird to me that the demon king would bestow his ten elite warriors personally with their decrees as well as the whole fuss he makes over Meliodas' importance for the demon clan and then still have another group of knights even above them. Also, the way I interpreted the talk in the chapter made it sound like the stigma alliance gave them a run for their money. If that was the case, then some random fodders with no name were pushing them - numbers aren't nearly as relevant here, it's like claiming it would have made a difference if there had been hundred or fivehundred generic holy knights vs Grey Hendrickson at the capital. The power gap seems individually too high if they are supposed to be even remotely special knights among the demon clan. I mean, even faceless random grey demons can level townships on their own....

If those black knights were above the 10C then the power creep would become even more ridiculous than it already is. I doubt they are much of a thing, at least when compared to the Ten Commandments.

We'll just have to wait and see. I just feel like something more powerful than the commandments needs to be introduced. If the black knights are weaker than the commandments,then the next best thing from the demon clan is their king, but he should be like the final villain of the series.

 

[Tavore]

We'll just have to wait and see. I just feel like something more powerful than the commandments needs to be introduced. If the black knights are weaker than the commandments,then the next best thing from the demon clan is their king, but he should be like the final villain of the series.

That's what the 4 Archangels are for.

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't think too highly of those six black knights. For starters, we don't even know if they are still alive in the present timeline, it is possible that they are not. Then it just seems weird to me that the demon king would bestow his ten elite warriors personally with their decrees as well as the whole fuss he makes over Meliodas' importance for the demon clan and then still have another group of knights even above them. Also, the way I interpreted the talk in the chapter made it sound like the stigma alliance gave them a run for their money. If that was the case, then some random fodders with no name were pushing them - numbers aren't nearly as relevant here, it's like claiming it would have made a difference if there had been hundred or fivehundred generic holy knights vs Grey Hendrickson at the capital. The power gap seems individually too high if they are supposed to be even remotely special knights among the demon clan. I mean, even faceless random grey demons can level townships on their own....

If those black knights were above the 10C then the power creep would become even more ridiculous than it already is. I doubt they are much of a thing, at least when compared to the Ten Commandments.

I am pretty sure they are dead. If they are not, maybe one or two are alive and hiding somewhere like the Goddess twins. The coffin freed the most powerful Demons and all of them were Commandments.

We know for a fact that the 10 commandments are the demon clan's elite force. We have known that for a while. It stands to reason that the black knights would be a lesser order than the ten commandments.

Not necessarily. If they are not serving the DK, they won't be counted, the TCs are the elite chosen by the DK and obeying him. They might be serving the DK and be weaker overall, but the possibility that some of them are above or comparable the strongest TCs exists.

 

[oxtopus]

That's what the 4 Archangels are for.

The arch angels are from the goddess clan. I meant that if the six black knights aren't a new stronger group then the good thing we can get from the demon clan for the story, is their king,since the TC are pretty much done.

 

[kkck]

Not necessarily. If they are not serving the DK, they won't be counted, the TCs are the elite chosen by the DK and obeying him. They might be serving the DK and be weaker overall, but the possibility that some of them are above or comparable the strongest TCs exists.

I really doubt it to be honest. Who else would they work for? And perhaps more importantly, there is fraudrin. Why pick fraudrin for the ten commandments if there were stronger demons around? Who would prevent him from picking anyone he wants? Fraudrin was clearly subpar to the other commandments even with his 31k pl... Even his magic, full size, was about worthless. It made him bigger without increasing his PL...

 

[Gallon]

If the Six Black Knights are fighting for the demons during the Holy War, they're obeying the Demon King. lol
Meh, it makes no sense for them to be stronger than the Commandments. Like I said, the Demon King's sons are/were members of the Ten Commandments, which has been mentioned to be the most elite group of demons. When Meliodas said "directly under the Demon King", I'm sure he meant directly under both his command and power level.

 

[Demonspeed]

I really doubt it to be honest. Who else would they work for? And perhaps more importantly, there is fraudrin. Why pick fraudrin for the ten commandments if there were stronger demons around? Who would prevent him from picking anyone he wants? Fraudrin was clearly subpar to the other commandments even with his 31k pl... Even his magic, full size, was about worthless. It made him bigger without increasing his PL...

For themselves or a character who has yet to be introduced, just like them. I suppose that the DK just summon you, give you the title and the decree. You need to be in the Demon Realm(?) with him in the first and respond to this in the first place, he is not almighty, . Fraudrin himself is not considered an official Commandment despite all of this.

If the Six Black Knights are fighting for the demons during the Holy War, they're obeying the Demon King. lol
Meh, it makes no sense for them to be stronger than the Commandments. Like I said, the Demon King's sons are/were members of the Ten Commandments, which has been mentioned to be the most elite group of demons. When Meliodas said "directly under the Demon King", I'm sure he meant directly under both his command and power level.

But, they didn't say they are fighting for the Demons or Demon King, there was only a comparison with the Commandments, it's all we have. Meliodas left even though he is a Demon, same for Gowther who was a Commandment and no one managed to find him, we have the Goddess twins who gave up fighting etc. They can do their own thing.

 

[Gallon]

But, they didn't say they are fighting for the Demons or Demon King, there was only a comparison with the Commandments, it's all we have. Meliodas left even though he is a Demon, same for Gowther who was a Commandment and no one managed to find him, we have the Goddess twins who gave up fighting etc. They can do their own thing.

But they're fighting against Stigma, unlike any of the ones you mentioned - the giants and fairies even say "those damned demons!" when referring to both groups, implying they're indeed fighting on the demons' side.

 

[kkck]

For themselves or a character who has yet to be introduced, just like them. I suppose that the DK just summon you, give you the title and the decree. You need to be in the Demon Realm(?) with him in the first and respond to this in the first place, he is not almighty, . Fraudrin himself is not considered an official Commandment despite all of this.

Well, but if this is the case then they wouldn't technically be a part of the demon king's army. The furthest they could be from directly the demon king's command is working under someone who is directly subordinate to the demon king. A pleiades sort of deal who were under denzel's command. I guess it is technically possible in the sense that it hasn't been disproven but the most likely scenario here is that the black knights are simply an organization within the demon king's army.

Well, it is entirely possible fraudrin wasn't given a commandment because gowther was alive. But even then, fraudrin is simply not on the same level as the other commandments. He had a weak PL by their standards and his magic is simply weak. Galan has a smaller base PL but once their magics are factored in the most likely scenario is that galan would foderize 5 fraudrins. And if that was the best the demon could do to replace gowther, then I don't see how the black knights could have been that good. More so, fraudrin is not the only commandment that was hard to replace. Factor in dolor and gloxinia here. Why them? They were outsiders, at best recently transformed into demons. Basically, even then were picked as commandments before actual demons with a proven history of loyalty to the demon clan. The black knights could have been incredibly powerful however the most likely scenario remains that they were still a lesser order of warriors in regards to the commandments.

 

[Drylick]

Belialin might be a member of the Six Black Knights, in which The Ten Commandments MIGHT have killed long ago. The Ten Commandments are the best of the Demon Clan, but the Six Black Knights might be the most powerful demons who opposed the Demon King. Because you know, in every demon fiction, there are those who rebelled against the Demon King.

 

[kkck]

To be honest, I expect the black knights to be something like the dawn roar. Not warriors on a class of their own but rather an independent order of capable warriors. Still short of the commandments though.

As for belialin, he (she?) could be a high ranking demon but I do not expect that would be the end of the story here. When merlin explained her powers and a bit of her story she made the point of how short her lifespan was. If anything, her lifespan seems to be that of a human. Which means that without a speck of a doubt she is neither demon nor goddess. However she can't be a normal human either considering the belialin thing and the fact that her proper name cannot be pronounced by humans. So what we have is that at least one of her parents was in fact not a human and distinct enough to use words humans cannot even physically pronounce. And this being in turn is powerful enough for the demons to fear. That further negates the possibility of belialin being a human of sorts considering that according to merascylla there were no humans that could oppose demons 3000 years ago.

Now, given that "belialin" is a name that the 10 commandments remembered, it is incredibly likely that belialin is either a demon or a goddess. And a high ranking one at that. I lean towards belialin being a demon considering he was able to give merlin immunity to the commandments. The commandments are curses that presumably even target goddesses so I do not expect the one who made this to have been a goddess. In any case, there is also the consideration that merlin had a human life span and also was identified as a human by greyroad. Basically, merlin does not register as a demon to anyone, she feels like a normal human. Not even hendricksen identifies merlin as a demon and he was able to identify meliodas on the spot.

So belialin, either a demon or a goddess produced, well, a human.... There are a number of possibilities to consider here in that regard. The first that comes to mind is that merlin is a sort of hybrid. Perhaps a goddess/demon hybrid. And since demon and goddess seem to cancel each other out it is not implausible that a child of both would be born without either powers but also have powerful magic. Another possibility is that merlin wasn't so much as born as she was made. Even if merlin is not a goddess/demon hybrid there has to be some shenanigans around that explains why she was born a human though.

 

[Isaiah Thomas]

To be honest, I expect the black knights to be something like the dawn roar. Not warriors on a class of their own but rather an independent order of capable warriors. Still short of the commandments though.

As for belialin, he (she?) could be a high ranking demon but I do not expect that would be the end of the story here. When merlin explained her powers and a bit of her story she made the point of how short her lifespan was. If anything, her lifespan seems to be that of a human. Which means that without a speck of a doubt she is neither demon nor goddess. However she can't be a normal human either considering the belialin thing and the fact that her proper name cannot be pronounced by humans. So what we have is that at least one of her parents was in fact not a human and distinct enough to use words humans cannot even physically pronounce. And this being in turn is powerful enough for the demons to fear. That further negates the possibility of belialin being a human of sorts considering that according to merascylla there were no humans that could oppose demons 3000 years ago.

Now, given that "belialin" is a name that the 10 commandments remembered, it is incredibly likely that belialin is either a demon or a goddess. And a high ranking one at that. I lean towards belialin being a demon considering he was able to give merlin immunity to the commandments. The commandments are curses that presumably even target goddesses so I do not expect the one who made this to have been a goddess. In any case, there is also the consideration that merlin had a human life span and also was identified as a human by greyroad. Basically, merlin does not register as a demon to anyone, she feels like a normal human. Not even hendricksen identifies merlin as a demon and he was able to identify meliodas on the spot.

So belialin, either a demon or a goddess produced, well, a human.... There are a number of possibilities to consider here in that regard. The first that comes to mind is that merlin is a sort of hybrid. Perhaps a goddess/demon hybrid. And since demon and goddess seem to cancel each other out it is not implausible that a child of both would be born without either powers but also have powerful magic. Another possibility is that merlin wasn't so much as born as she was made. Even if merlin is not a goddess/demon hybrid there has to be some shenanigans around that explains why she was born a human though.

"I lean towards belialin being a demon considering he was able to give merlin immunity to the commandments. The commandments are curses that presumably even target goddesses so I do not expect the one who made this to have been a goddess." If that was the case then this line by Merlin make no sense

Spoiler

I think the Commandments don't work on Goddesses at least not for long. It's not all that surprising Esatrossa did say that there was Goddess they didn't go near so it's possible. https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/nanatsu_no_taizai/en/0/176/1/page/7


Merlin is a hybrid of both Demon & Goddess & the two cancel each out because remember Merlin also said this

Spoiler