Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

[GrySun]

Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

Spoiler: Examples of Approved roles

I. Troublemaker

II. Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2 (locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.

I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:

• A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
• A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.

Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.

 

[Farfalla]

I have problems with people that have info on the IDs of the mafia members moving to a townie faction.
I mean... a traitor do not know it necessarily, he might be naive, it takes some time for him to be certain.
A townie lover might not know it, his mafia lover might not share.
Both of those are not fully interested in winning as townies as well, so that works to keep their mouth shut, to put it in a very blunt way...
A person that can only win as a townie but also knows who the mafia members are looks like a liability to the game in my eyes - not to mention he super breaks the mafia team's game.
People have ruined games leaking that kind of information in the past.
If it's only about third parties, then it's "ok". If it's a one time only (succeeding with the action), he'd have to be informed by the host when he finds the target, tho, otherwise he'll keep looking like a moron for the rest of the game (I don't like those blind actions, like what happens to the Pirate, lol). It's worth mention that half of the third party roles aren't killing ones, tho (Both Lovers - since the mafia one isn't a 'killing third party', Mentee, Santa Claus...)

 

[GrySun]

Also trying to think of some adjustments to lovers. They're basically a pro-mafia role with the mafia lover's common abuse so it may be best to make it so they can only win with the lovers side.

 

[Organizized]

Quack Doctor (Townie) - Same as Doctor, but the player he saves only lives for one more Day Phase before ultimately dying (unless saved again).

Rookie Spy (Townie) - After Night Phase, the Rookie Spy gets incomplete info of one Night Action, i.e. ”Someone targeted Player X tonight” or ”Player Y targeted someone tonight”. Which Night Action he gets info of is randomized by the host, not chosen by the player himself.

Vengeful Lover (Third Party) - If the other Lover dies, the Vengeful Lover gets to pick and kill one of the people who lynched him. If the Lover is killed by Mafia, the Vengeful Lover kills the killing Mafia member by default. Still kills himself the next Night like normal Lover.

Vengeful Lover doesn’t know he’s Vengeful until the other Lover dies.

(Only a 50% chance to kill?)

Interrogator (Townie) - Chooses one player each Night to have a private conversation with. The player in question finds out about the Interrogator’s role, but it’s up to the player how much they want to reveal/talk to the Interrogator.

Desperate Doctor (Townie) - Same as Doctor, but upon saving someone also removes the player’s ability. The ability is only removed if the target was saved from dying.

Last In Line at the Role-Booth (WHO KNOWS?) - Starts out as Vanilla Townie, but the moment the first player dies, he takes over that person's role.

Yeah I'm bored, so what?

 

[Spirit]

Interrogator (Townie) - Chooses one player each Night to have a private conversation with. The player in question finds out about the Interrogator’s role, but it’s up to the player how much they want to reveal/talk to the Interrogator.

This is a lot like the Jailor role in Town of Salem. I like this role, but this version seems a little bit nerfed, as the Jailor from ToS can choose whether to Execute his target if he thinks that they are Mafia.

 

[GrySun]

Death pad not entertaining enough?

I guess they're okayish? Quack doctor sounds tiring, with the player constantly targetting the same guy after one time a kill is missing, thinking he caused it and needs to keep that one guy alive.

Rookie spy is interesting, but I would make another name for it, we should avoid those similarily sounding ones and he's not really spying, more like overwatching a certain person to know if he was targetted. Is a bit weak and useless if he doesn't get to know what targeted him or at least how many tatgeted him. Like a mortician for living people?

Vengeful lover is not really how we solve the lover roles main big problem, but it's a bit of extra lover spice I admit. A mafia lover would be too strong with it maybe. Like this one the least.

Intereogator can only confirm himself to others, seems kinda pointless with innocent child and the like, nor is it exciting to use I think.

Desperate doc will make every player desperate with the extra added layer of confusion.

The last in line thing sounds interesting, but seems more like a thing for a special game theme than a role by itself, but could also work as a good role perhaps.

@Farfalla I think your one earlier suggestion is actually an okay role to consider, post it here o/

 

[Farfalla]

Hardy ended up making me see it as a weaker BP / lamer Jesus c.c

 

[GrySun]

Eh it can be better than Jesus if killed later/near the end of the game, and it survives Strongman as opposed to BP.

 

[Spirit]

Intereogator can only confirm himself to others, seems kinda pointless with innocent child and the like, nor is it exciting to use I think.

I didn't think about that. In ToS your identity is hidden from the target. Maybe make a Mafia Game Senpai Account?

 

[Organizized]

Gotta admit: I did not come up with any of these roles to solve any sort of previous power balance problems or anything, I'm just bored as hell. And perhaps someone could get an idea for an actual functional role from them.

Rookie spy is interesting, but I would make another name for it, we should avoid those similarily sounding ones and he's not really spying, more like overwatching a certain person to know if he was targetted. Is a bit weak and useless if he doesn't get to know what targeted him or at least how many tatgeted him. Like a mortician for living people?

Was gonna say I was unsure about the name. At first I was gonna name it something humorous like "Homeless Bum", because it'd be like someone who just happens to overhear a conversation but doesn't fully understand what it means. If he does find out how many people targeted someone he could indeed be useful to clear up why there was fewer Night kills than expected etc.

Intereogator can only confirm himself to others, seems kinda pointless with innocent child and the like, nor is it exciting to use I think.

I'll admit I didn't think this role through very much. I just liked the idea of a "closed conversation" between a confirmed Townie and someone he trusts/distrusts. But if he hits Mafia he's pretty much screwed, which is why you'd probably only use it on confirmed Townies or ones you highly trust to create a one-night-Mason-like thing.. yeah idk.

What Spirit mentioned might make it more interesting though, since then the person would have to talk to the interrogator and convince him they're not Mafia, either by claiming a role or some other way. And he could use whatever they tell him in their defense or against them during the Day as well.

 

[Farfalla]

Here it is, then (still gotta re-write it)

Braveheart (Townie): The Braveheart has a strong sense of purpose and determination, granting him the ability to go further than others would and endure his wounds longer. Due to that, the Braveheart dies a Day Phase after the one he was supposed to. If he's killed during a Night Phase, he survives the next Day Phase and is declared dead in the following one.

 

[Copy Panda]

Masons need a buff of sorts

Masons (townie) are a Group of Townies that know each other to be innocent. They can communicate with each other at Night if they choose. Masons can vote amongst themselves to give someone non voter disease for a day phase. Their vote must be unanimous, and cannot be exercised if they're the only mason. For a vote to go through all masons must agree or abstain from voting. To formally vote is for one player to start a vote and at least one other player confirming this.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 13, 2017 ---

Here it is, then (still gotta re-write it)

Braveheart (Townie): The Braveheart has a strong sense of purpose and determination, granting him the ability to go further than others would and endure his wounds longer. Due to that, the Braveheart dies a Day Phase after the one he was supposed to. If he's killed during a Night Phase, he survives the next Day Phase and is declared dead in the following one.

does town or the player know they're about to die?

 

[GrySun]

They don't need a buff, they just need to be put in a game where they're not severely crippled or useless. Maybe it's best to always start them just with a sole recruiter and work from there than add members who make masons pointless.

 

[Farfalla]

does town or the player know they're about to die?

My initial idea was that the player would be informed about getting "wounded/attacked", yeah.

Have further discussions about it in PMs. But since Hardy didn't like it, I kinda dropped the concept, so I guess it's open to debate?

 

[Copy Panda]

eh for all intents and purposes i think it's common sense of the host to balance out townie and non/townie masons. in a regular situation it gives masons something to do really, they already discuss a lot anyway, if the group manages to survive into the late game, they will have some kind of influence instead of just second guessing who or what they might fall target too. Also, if they have this perk, any foreign party won't immediately relegate the other masons to puppet status. They will have something to talk about that could actually give away third party status by dodging suggestions in discussion, I think it could add a meaningful layer of play

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 13, 2017 ---

My initial idea was that the player would be informed about getting "wounded/attacked", yeah.

Have further discussions about it in PMs. But since Hardy didn't like it, I kinda dropped the concept, so I guess it's open to debate?

well its jesus lite. maybe they could be informed of what role targeted them specifically?

 

[GrySun]

eh for all intents and purposes i think it's common sense of the host to balance out townie and non/townie masons. in a regular situation it gives masons something to do really, they already discuss a lot anyway, if the group manages to survive into the late game, they will have some kind of influence instead of just second guessing who or what they might fall target too. Also, if they have this perk, any foreign party won't immediately relegate the other masons to puppet status. They will have something to talk about that could actually give away third party status by dodging suggestions in discussion, I think it could add a meaningful layer of play

How so? The recruiter is a complete non-issue with a mafia mason in the masons.

 

[Copy Panda]

because they have to discuss and vote?

 

[Farfalla]

well its jesus lite.

Yup. Almost Hardy's exact same words.

 

[Brandish μ]

Apologies if these were pre-existing roles, current roles, or too powerful.

The Accountant (Town) - This player is sent a PM at the start of every day by the hosts with the exact number of town roles in the game. (ie they know how many doctors, detectives, etc. Or to weaken it, the number of investigative/protective/effect-adding roles etc)
Consigliere (Mafia) - Has no extra abilities than a normal mafia when alive, but when they die they're still allowed to discuss mafia business in PM's or Pirate Pad.
The Journalist (Town) - On D1 only, this player can expose the roles of 4 players by sending a PM to the hosts. The results will be displayed in the thread but not which member has those roles.

 

[James Rye]

I thought about the return role of Jesus. He's the sole role which does not die on the first kill and revives a couple days later, but stays dead once he is killed for the 2nd time. I played Jesus once and it was pretty fun to act as an "important role" to make sure the mafia kills you on the first night basically wasting their kill and confirming me as Jesus. So I thought why not make use of that simple revive role for one or two more roles but each with their own twist to it?

So here are my thoughts regarding those new roles:

Mafia Ghul (Mafia)
Whenever he dies, he returns in the next night phase to kill one last time before dying for good. (For example, if he dies in night phase 1 he comes back in night phase 2. If he dies in day phase 2, he comes back in night phase 3). He dies as Mafa. Kill does not count to the Kill count of the remaining Mafia.

Problem I have with this role is the Kill ability. Obviously I would not want the Ghul to return to the game as that would just make him an obvious lynch again target for the Townies and is quite boring. I liked the idea of a reviving Jesus with Vengeful Townie ability mix and the Mafia fits its bill the best. I have two solutions for this problem:

Mafia Ghul (Mafia)
Whenever he dies, he returns in the next night phase to kill one last time before dying for good. (For example, if he dies in night phase 1 he comes back in night phase 2. If he dies in day phase 2, he comes back in night phase 3). He dies as Mafa. Kill does not count to the Kill count of the remaining Mafia. This Ghul Kill cannot be blocked.

Basically making the kill unstoppable as to prevent the Protecting and Blocking roles to prevent this now known Kill in the next night phase. However that again makes the trouble of a hider claiming he is just hiding or a Bulletproof Townie lamenting that his ability is now useless against this type of Mafia. Then again the Mafia had to DIE for that ability to tricker so I think it is fair game.

Mafia Ghul (Mafia)
Whenever he dies, he returns in a night phase of his choosing to kill one last time before dying for good. (For example, if he dies in night phase 1 he could come back in night phase 2. However he could chose to return&kill in night phase 3 or later). He dies as Mafa. Kill does not count to the Kill count of the remaining Mafia.

This setting has the way of avoiding that protecting and blocking townie roles fear that there is a Mafia role which can ignore all of their effects. However it still adds strategy value to the Mafia play as with the Ghul death they gain the ability to kill a 2nd time in a night of their choosing. Plus the Mafia can be sure that there will be some blockign roles that might "waste" their ability on the Ghul despite the Ghul not going for a nightly stroll to kill somebody, giving the other Mafias more room to work freely. If they make sure to kill blocking and protector roles before using the Ghul they have the 2nd kill in for sure. If not, using the Ghul is risky but also makes sure that the townies never quite known when exactly the Ghul will strike for its last time.

I like both versions, the super-kill Ghul version is very powerful but fast-paced whereas the night-kill-choice Ghul is still very useful as Mafia can freely decide when to use the 2nd kill but can be blocked by the Townies if luck is on their side.

I also got this idea of a 3rd role Hider who is a killer. I got this idea after reading Dungeon Meshi ch.40:

Shapeshifter (3rd Role)
A cowardly and weak creature, using his Illusions to hide its true form as the latest victim it has killed. When the Shapeshifter hides behind a victim, he kills him in the same night phase and takes his place, so that nobody is aware this person is missing. In other words, the Shapeshifter player and his Victim continue to be in the game despite the Victim actually being dead. If the Shapeshifter uses his ability again to hide&kill, his last Illusion will shatter and the Host will declare the old Victim's death time, same if the Illusion got killed or lynched. (Example: Shapeshifter hides behind and kills Player A in Night 1. On Night 3, the Shapeshifter hides again behind Player B. Player A is declared dead on Day 4, revealing that he died on Night 1.) Hiding and Killing ability work normally.

I really liked this idea of a "hidden kill" by a cowardly creature which kills to survive the game. Also the whole Illusion thing keeping the latest Victim "in the game" makes the Shapeshifter a "one couple role" like the two lovers which is pretty unique. It is basically a Hider who ends up killing whoever he hides behind so the Shapeshifter gotta decide if just staying one person through-out the game, hoping his real self never gets killed till he, his illusion and two other roles are left in the game. Or he keeps hiding and killing, always hoping that his target will not be killed by anybody else as he would then die too or that his target is a hider or that his real self just got blocked by a prostitute or a doc protected his victim, etc. But due his win condition someday he has to kill, even if all Mafias got killed the game won't end till the Townies found the Shapeshifter among them.
Basically the Shapeshifter is a weak killer as his kill only works if his target is not killed by anybody else plus it can still be blocked like a normal kill, making it the weakest killer in the game. The Illusion however is what is so cool about this role: It works that way that the Host does NOT tell the Victim that it is dead so that the Victim keeps writing and voting normally the following days unaware of its death so that the "illusion" of the killed Victim still being "alive" is perfect. In other words the Shapeshifter cannot control the Illusion properly as it is a perfect Illusion of the killed so it is possible that the Illusion votes to lynch the Shapeshifter in a day vote which is hilarious to think about! XD
Plus it makes being dead less annoying as the Victim of a Shapeshifter can continue to play the game and then finds out a couple days later that under normal circumstances he would have died on Night 1 already but was only allowed to keep playing the game because he played the role of an "illusion" without beng aware of it. I just love that! I wanna see the comments when people realize that the person they talked with, argued with and voted with turned out to be dead since 3 or 4 phases and that that now means ANOTHER one of them is dead and "playing" as an Illusion of the Shapeshifter without knowing it!!! It's just so cool to think about it! XD

Seriously, I'd love to see the Shapeshifter in a game as soon as possible. It is not OP as its kill depends on its hide and since his Illusion can be destroyed too, revealing that there is a Shapeshifter in the crowd. However its unique Illusion ability makes it an enjoyable role for both the killer and the victim as the killer has now a "Partner" to win the game with, till he decides he wants or needs a new one, and the Victim who keeps playing the game instead of dying and having to leave the game. Plus this makes it really hilarious if the Shapeshifter happens to kill Jesus as Jesus would suddenly "return" 2 day phases later, revealing that the "First Jesus" had died on a night phase before and now both the Jesus player and everybody else will be like "whhhhaaaat?". Basically Jesus would "die" and "return" on the same day due the Shapeshifter role hiding the kill and the Jesus role returning the Player back to life nonetheless. XD

 

[Copy Panda]

if a mafia were to respawn what possible contribution could they offer to the game?

also, the shape shifter is... basically a mafia poisoner/hider hybrid?

if anything, we should try to figure out how to buff lovers and masons