Theory Final Tournament Line-up Discussion/Predictions

[Kaoz]

I do agree with the Oni vs Germany but Byodoin wouldn't miss a rematch with Amadeus.

Well, here's the thing though: the only reason why Byoudouin isn't playing against France is because he and Duke specifically asked for the change, so it stands to reason that Byoudouin is meant to face both Germany and Switzerland/Spain/America. So if we assume both that and that no one but Ryoma is going to play more than once, there could be a reason why Byoudouin is unable to play the finals rather than unwilling.

Of course it's possible we'll have a repeat of the current situation against Germany, but I'm not sure there's anyone other than Duke who Byoudouin would make an appeal for.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

I believe Byodoin wanted Duke to play against France. Make peace with France. All the other HSers wanted the same thing.

I'm pretty sure that if Switzerland reaches the finals, Amadeus would want the rematch with Byodoin. Settle things once and for all and it will be the most exciting match from the entire tournament.
Without Ryoga I don't think USA will get far. Ralph looks like their only hope. Oni vs Volk: Oni gets to play a pro; Byodoin vs Amadeus: the best match; Duke vs Camus more or less is happening; which leaves Tokugawa who doesn't look like he'll play a pro. I'm thinking Tanegashima will play Germany too. Tokugawa/Tanegashima vs Doubles pro?

 

[Kaoz]

I believe Byodoin wanted Duke to play against France.

But Mifune wanted Byoudouin to play Camus, not Duke, and he's the one making the decisions. He changed it specifically after Byoudouin's appeal. We don't have a reason to believe he won't want to put Byoudouin into the line-up in both the semis and the finals.

I'm pretty sure that if Switzerland reaches the finals, Amadeus would want the rematch with Byodoin.

That doesn't reject the possibility that Byoudouin could be unable to compete in the finals, e.g. due to injury.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

Mifune is a lot smarter than people give him credit for. I'm sure he was on board with Duke vs Camus. Don't know where he gets his information from but he knows what's going on and what he is doing.

If Byodoin got injured before Amadeus, how boring would the match be? Very.

 

[Kaoz]

I neither said nor implied that Mifune isn't smart and that's not the point here. The point is that when Byoudouin came to talk to him, Mifune explicitly said he wanted to put Byoudouin into S1. The fact that he ultimately didn't do so means he granted Byoudouin and Duke's appeal. Yes, of course he was on board with it since he filled out the order, but in the end he essentially set his own preferences aside to grant them a favor. Therefore it stands to reason that for Byoudouin to not play S1 against Germany, something similar would have to happen between the quarter finals and semi finals.

And obviously Byoudouin wouldn't play against Amadeus if he suffered an injury. There are other people on the Japanese team that could make that an entertaining match.

 

[Hardy]

Kaoz I'm surprised you have Oni playing over Tane considering you said the former's role in the story was already accomplished.

I expect Byoudouin to not play at all but I can see him playing in SFs, it's reasonable.

Copying from yours, praying to see Kirihara but:

Germany
S3 Fuji
D2 Kaji/Kite
S2 Ryoma
D1 Ochi/Marui
S1 Byoudouin, Oni or Tanegashima

Finals
S3 Atobe
D2 Oni/Kintarou
S2 Irie
D1 Tokugawa/Yukimura
S1 Ryoma

 

[Kaoz]

Kaoz I'm surprised you have Oni playing over Tane considering you said the former's role in the story was already accomplished.

Yeah, as far as he himself is concerned, I stand by that. But I think he could work as a sort of mentor to Yukimura. Not in a technical sense like with Kintarou and Akutsu, but rather how to combine playing to win with enjoying yourself on the court.

There's also the fact that Tanegashima had a group league match and Oni didn't. On the off-chance that Ryoma/Yukimura happens though, I could see Tanegashima over Oni.

Also I see you have Kintarou in doubles - any comments on that?

 

[Hardy]

I just rather have other players in singles while at the same time I feel that TnK got a bit overused by Kin, in doubles he would need to strategise more.

Kaji/Kite makes sense to me btw as Ohmagari passing his torch, somehow. But it depends a lot on Kaji/Ohmagari being a pair in the first place.

 

[Kaoz]

Kaji/Kite makes sense to me btw as Ohmagari passing his torch, somehow. But it depends a lot on Kaji/Ohmagari being a pair in the first place.

Yeah, it does make sense on that basis. If our theory that Ochi used to be no. 5 is true, Ochi/Kite would make sense on the same grounds. Personally, I have trouble seeing a D1 without a member of the G5 though.

But I guess you could argue that - depending on how you look at stats now - Ochi/Ohmagari could be considered a pro level doubles pair. Sure, they wouldn't be able to stand up to the strongest players individually, but they both have two stats above 5 and, even more than that, those strengths complement each other.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

In regards to Mifune. I think he was only saying Byodoin is in singles 1 to trick him/lie. But he never meant it. He knew deep down that Duke wanted to play that position.

I have to ask: it seems like you guys are against Byodoin playing in the finals. Why? He has every reason to play in the finals if the opponent is Switzerland. If it was the US, maybe not then. What makes you believe he'll get injured?
If Ryoma will play in the finals, he'll play in singles 2/3 best, not 1.

 

[Kaoz]

In regards to Mifune. I think he was only saying Byodoin is in singles 1 to trick him/lie. But he never meant it. He knew deep down that Duke wanted to play that position.

I think you're tricking yourself there into seeing what you want to see rather than what's actually there, sorry. In that whole chapter nothing suggests that Mifune had planned on using Duke from the start, it all points towards him wanting to go with Byoudouin.

I have to ask: it seems like you guys are against Byodoin playing in the finals. Why? He has every reason to play in the finals if the opponent is Switzerland. If it was the US, maybe not then. What makes you believe he'll get injured?
If Ryoma will play in the finals, he'll play in singles 2/3 best, not 1.

I'm not against it, there are definitely a number of scenarios in which I could see it happen. There's just also a number of other scenarios I find plausible in which he doesn't and currently, in my eyes, there's a slightly higher chance of one of those latter ones actually happening. For the injury specifically, there are two reasons why I think that's a possibility:

1. The first reason comes down to numbers. Like I said before, I think that Byoudouin will play in the semis barring another guy coming up and asking him to play instead. This doubly makes sense because he'd go up against the world's no. 1 team, even if it's not in the last match of the tournament. At the same time, if he only plays one match, there will be a reason for him not to play in the finals after playing in the semis. Injury is just a pretty straight-forward one.
2. The second reason is more story/character related. For quite some time I've been thinking that maybe Byoudouin will - for one reason or another, once again there seem to be multiple possibilities to me - repeat what he did in the France WC, protect someone and get injured as a result. The only difference would be that here it'd happen before the line-up for the finals is submitted.

So like I said, I could easily see Byoudouin playing in the finals and I could also see him in doubles instead of singles for instance (either with Kite or Atobe or maybe, maybe Tokugawa if the Swiss have such a powerful pair), but at the same time I think it's slightly more probable that he won't. There are other players that could go up against Amadeus, Tokugawa and Kintarou to name my personal top 2 in that regard.

Regarding Ryoma though, there's basically no way he won't be S1 unless Japan wins in less than five matches. It seems pretty clear to me that Ryoma is still the most important character of the series when everything's said and done, so he'll get the honor of having the last match of the tournament.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

Mifune isn't that ignorant. Not to be be rude but the same can be said for you guys too. You either don't see Mifune as a behind-the-scenes smart guy or just see what you want to see but not open your mind to other possibilities. The way the summary is written makes me think when Mifune spoke to Byodoin, he was being sarcastic about it.

In regards to Byodoin, while you do make good and valid points, I have more questions. If Byodoin gets injured from protecting someone, who would Byodoin care enough to save? As far as I know, Byodoin doesn't really get along with anyone other than Duke. Do you think his younger sister will appear and he saves her? If Byodoin was to save someone, it'll be a young innocent person not some arrogant brat.
Personally, I don't think anyone besides Byodoin/Oni is powerful enough to take on Amadeus. If Byodoin wanted to step in for Akutsu, he was confident he could take on Amadeus, hinting he won their previous encounter or was on the verge.
For Ryoma, while I do agree he'll play the last match, I don't think it'll be the tournament but the series. After the tournament, he finally finds Ryoga at home with Nanjiro and they play a match with Nanjiro refereeing. Ryoma then defeats Ryoga (something like the movie). That's how Ryoma will finally have the match with Ryoga.

 

[Kaoz]

Well, here's the actual dialogue:

"No way!! Our singles 1's gonna be you, Byoudouin. True, Duke's a former French rep... the king of destruction's... strong, but...! Nowadays Camus is even stronger!! ...And also, if you get swayed by your personal feelings, you lose. You should know that better than anyone. We're done talking!! Get out!! You're interrupting my drinking!!"
*Byoudouin slams his fist against a wall*
"Don't break the goddamn wall!"

Do you still think it's sarcasm? Also, if you want to make a case for that possibility, give me a reason why Mifune would be sarcastic in that situation, please.

If Byodoin gets injured from protecting someone, who would Byodoin care enough to save?

His sister is possible. But I was thinking it'd most likely be Tokugawa, with Ryoma coming as a very distant second(/third) possibility.

Personally, I don't think anyone besides Byodoin/Oni is powerful enough to take on Amadeus.

Kintarou and Tokugawa were able to hold their own against Oni and Byoudouin respectively, so at least those two should be viable choices. Also, I didn't say they'd necessarily win.

For Ryoma, while I do agree he'll play the last match, I don't think it'll be the tournament but the series. After the tournament, he finally finds Ryoga at home with Nanjiro and they play a match with Nanjiro refereeing. Ryoma then defeats Ryoga (something like the movie). That's how Ryoma will finally have the match with Ryoga.

Fair enough on this one. I think they'll play in the WC, but it's possible.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

For Mifune: Thinking is different to saying. He could just say all that but think, "Of course Duke's playing singles 1. I will save you for the SF/F."
I'm pretty sure not everyone says what they think.

If Switzerland is the final opponent and Amadeus plays in singles 1, Japan has to win, if they want to win the tournament that is. PoPKintaro won't do well with Amadeus. I mean even Dorgias was able to hold his own against PoP. Volk smashed PoPTezuka.

PS: Is it just us and occasionally Hardy these days? I'm programming and I still have time for here :P

 

[Kaoz]

Not everyone says what they think, but in a written work we have to take a statements at face value if nothing suggests we shouldn't (e.g. metaphors or if the character has a history of lying). Otherwise you can start doubting anything and everything as a lie or trick and will never get anywhere.

I mean, in the scenarios I presented Amadeus wouldn't play S1. I could easily see him in S3 (like Tezuka vs Sanada) or D1 as well.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

Amadeus could play the third match (singles 2) if they underestimate Japan and assume Amadeus will win again. But by that time Japan will get stronger. I'm assuming Amadeus wants the match with Byodoin. Amadeus would assume that Japan will get stronger by their next match.

Here's a theory: the reason why Switzerland's doubles matches were barely shown, I think its because they will get more screen-time down the line, the finals.

On an unrelated note: I have a quick question. In chapter 229, there is a team that walks past Amadeus. Which team do you think they are? Can't be Spain because Medanore is meant to have straight long hair (I was re-reading the chapters).

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 14, 2018 ---

Another question: Do you think Taiwan could potentially upset Canada?

 

[Kaoz]

Here's a theory: the reason why Switzerland's doubles matches were barely shown, I think its because they will get more screen-time down the line, the finals.

It's certainly possible that that played into it. Even taking into consideration that Konomi kept all the group league rounds to about 15 chapters and Amadeus vs Akutsu was the majority of that in the last round, it would've been possible to spend another month on the doubles.

On an unrelated note: I have a quick question. In chapter 229, there is a team that walks past Amadeus. Which team do you think they are? Can't be Spain because Medanore is meant to have straight long hair (I was re-reading the chapters).

Not sure. Back then I thought it could've been someone from Aramenoma, but that obviously doesn't work anymore. A few people guessed it was Medanore and I'm inclined to agree at this point, solely because there's no other major character left. The hair is partially hidden by the text box, so that's a reason why it might look a little off.

Another question: Do you think Taiwan could potentially upset Canada?

If it really is Taiwan (keep in mind that we only got that one from the group result sheet, which has proven to be somewhat unreliable) I think it's possible since they would've had to beat Czech in order to advance. Then again there's not much of a point to it. Germany is going to decimate either one of them.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

Keep Switzerland's power unknown until the finals or so. Now that Japan has observed the top three countries (sadly no Spain), do you think Japan will do that again in the next round? Even if its not showing much. Better than nothing.

The biggest twist would be Taiwan/whoever upsetting Germany. That would be something none of us were expecting. Japan will be doing all the upsetting though.

 

[Kaoz]

That is true, nobody would expect that. I don't think many people would be happy about it either though since we've got a lot of setup with the Germans as it stands.

I don't think Japan is going to observe matches again as a group, but I think it's quite possible that Ryoma will go watch Switzerland vs America on his own. Not all of it since they probably start at the same time, but at least Ralph's match and if we're lucky maybe Kiko's and Dodo's. If e.g. Amadeus takes down Medanore, I think we'll get to see that too, either in a video recording or Konomi could just switch back and forth a bit like he did in the national semi finals.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

If Ryoma does watch USA vs Switzerland, I wonder how he'd react (ie: are they more of a threat or USA was useless without the Echizen brothers there).
The other semis, would be observed by the guys not playing against Germany. So they can announce who the final opponents are.