Discussion Did Zahard give up a greater destiny to become king?

[kkck]

This is something I have been thinking about for a while.... But zahard so far looks like a failed shounen hero basically. He has the googles, the clothes, he was the leader of him team that conquered the tower. Heck, he even had a love interest and a friend with whom he had rather violent fights that were stopped by the love interest. Zahard is literally every anime protagonist that had a MC that wore googles.

Now, if zahard was the "protagonist" of his story it sort of makes sense that in his team he was the one meant to have the big destiny and whatnot. However zahard at some point simply went wrong. He apparently even went through his revolution and discovered the seed to be king.... Which eduan said the real zahard wouldn't say but still. And it was V who was apparently meant to be king. And of course, zahard got in the way of that and became king first ( I assume he called dibs and V simply couldn't break that contrat). And then went on to propose to arlen. And then murdered arlen's baby. And so on.

So... did zahard gave up his own destiny to become king? To me this makes sense in which case we have to wonder what his actual destiny was.

And this also made me think of something else... If zahard is basically a failed shonen hero then what is bam? We know this story has axis, who are people in control of stories. So perhaps bam is actually retribution from an author (axis?) to his main character for failing him? Screw arlen and her prophecy, it's SIU who is pissed off at zahard.

 

[Demonspeed]

If Zahard hadn't changed like that he would have kept climbing and it's hard to imagine his team being unable to reach the top. It was the greatest team. Did he give up a greater destiny? Probably. Zahard's mistakes are used to show what Baam should not do.

I don't believe that V was meant to be king though, Eduan only said he was a better fit compared to Zahard. It doesn't look like a king was necessary in the first place.

 

[tornidooo]

Will complete climbing the tower
It would be better for him if he continued for the latter and then became king of the tower
Of course, assuming he can
But This may be much harder than we imagine and closer to the impossible
Perhaps Zahard realized this fact and that is why he stopped climbing the tower
This also applies to all or most of the leaders of the families
They have lost their sense of adventure and desire to face danger and have become tyrants who want to rule

 

[Jammin]

Maybe. I still get the feeling there is a lot more to Zahard's story than we realize.

It could very well be he was just a shounen type hero that fell victim to his demons and went down the "dark path" whether that be for greed or jealousy or pride or whatever.

But I'm not going to be convinced of that until I learn "why?" he's become what he has. The person I'm watching fight Baam now comes across to me as.. sad. Like being a king is something he believes he must do. Not something he actually wants to do. If you look at the data Zahard objectively he's lost everything that meant anything to him. He's not happy. But he doesn't seem to regret anything he did to make things that way. I feel like when we finally get all the puzzle pieces that's going to make sense.

 

[zikhali]

Arlene was right in saying he was blinded by falsehood, the tower existed before he entered and there was no king and even if it was his destiny to be king erasing friends and mass killings aren't justified. hence i'm of the opinion that his demon influenced his decision cause Bam got the same offer from his demon to be the peak of the tower and rule everyone

 

[Demonspeed]

Will complete climbing the tower
It would be better for him if he continued for the latter and then became king of the tower
Of course, assuming he can
But This may be much harder than we imagine and closer to the impossible
Perhaps Zahard realized this fact and that is why he stopped climbing the tower
This also applies to all or most of the leaders of the families
They have lost their sense of adventure and desire to face danger and have become tyrants who want to rule

If Zahard's team can't reach the top then who can?(Excluding the likes of Enryu and Phanta) It was a team of thirteen Irregulars. A team this powerful will probably never exist again. Baam is supposed to reach the higher floors and there is no way his companions can be that powerful. Something happened which made them change yes, the Arlen-V drama and more, but I can't imagine Zahard deciding to stop climbing because he felt it was impossible for him.

 

[Arjuna]

Lot of complex i feel.

I personally feel when Zahard wanted something bigger than we may say.

 

[tornidooo]

If Zahard's team can't reach the top then who can?(Excluding the likes of Enryu and Phanta) It was a team of thirteen Irregulars.

In addition to Enryu and Phanta , There is Baam
I think he will go beyond Zahard and he can achieve what he did not achieve
He will complete climbing alone and open the way for the rest
Because his friends will be only a hindrance
They will need to pave the way for them
Well, that's how I see things

 

[Host Samurai]

Maybe. I still get the feeling there is a lot more to Zahard's story than we realize.

It could very well be he was just a shounen type hero that fell victim to his demons and went down the "dark path" whether that be for greed or jealousy or pride or whatever.

But I'm not going to be convinced of that until I learn "why?" he's become what he has. The person I'm watching fight Baam now comes across to me as.. sad. Like being a king is something he believes he must do. Not something he actually wants to do. If you look at the data Zahard objectively he's lost everything that meant anything to him. He's not happy. But he doesn't seem to regret anything he did to make things that way. I feel like when we finally get all the puzzle pieces that's going to make sense.

I agree with you. So far, I got the same impression of Data Zahard that he felt 'obligated' to save the Tower inhabitants by literally sacrificing his entire being. In that sense he is comparable to Gwyn (Dark Souls series). Whereas Wangnan is about to lose everything (only Miseng remains but her status is still questionable due to her being unconcious) and feels like he doesn't deserve to have people around him.

 

[Jammin]

I agree with you. So far, I got the same impression of Data Zahard that he felt 'obligated' to save the Tower inhabitants by literally sacrificing his entire being. In that sense he is comparable to Gwyn (Dark Souls series). Whereas Wangnan is about to lose everything (only Miseng remains but her status is still questionable due to her being unconcious) and feels like he doesn't deserve to have people around him.

I just wish I had any idea what it was. And I do not.

The only guess I have is that maybe something on or beyond the 135th floor convinced him that he must prevent anyone from going up there at all costs.

 

[Demonspeed]

In addition to Enryu and Phanta , There is Baam
I think he will go beyond Zahard and he can achieve what he did not achieve
He will complete climbing alone and open the way for the rest
Because his friends will be only a hindrance
They will need to pave the way for them
Well, that's how I see things

Well, I don't see this happening at all. Baam would never climb without his friends anyway.

 

[Brian Taboada]

I just wish I had any idea what it was. And I do not.

The only guess I have is that maybe something on or beyond the 135th floor convinced him that he must prevent anyone from going up there at all costs.

I think he merely lost his way. Influenced to conquer and lost his adventurous spirit. It is said Zahard is asleep. Maybe he is as sad as data Zahard. Maybe without the adventure his life lost meaning even though he is king. perhaps Baam instead of defeating him will awaken that old spirit and for that Zahard will be grateful and accompany Baam as the adventure continues to the top..

 

[tornidooo]

Well, I don't see this happening at all. Baam would never climb without his friends anyway.

They can not go up with him anyway
They must pass the guardian test
The tests will be incredibly difficult even for the irregular

 

[Ripcord]

I just wish I had any idea what it was. And I do not.

The only guess I have is that maybe something on or beyond the 135th floor convinced him that he must prevent anyone from going up there at all costs.

Well we know that Bam wants to keep his friends safe so he can walk with them yet Zahard wanted power to be over others so he can keep them safe.

This hints that there was something (or maybe not one particular thing but many things) that threatened Zahard and those he cared about. He sacrificed who he was (a great adventurer) to protect them and in the end he felt that they had betrayed him (or at least Arlene had). The ends justifies the means in his opinion and in the end those that don’t understand that are unworthy of his protection and the sacrifice it required.

Bam on the other hand believes the means IS the ends. I believe Bam is walking the philosophical path that Zahard walked but Bam is making very different choices.

I also think that Data Zahard is not only sad but I think he also regrets what has happened. He deleted the data of his companions out of a sense of duty to himself (which maybe his young and old self shared), but I’m betting that Data Zahard still cares for his friends deep down. Real Zahard I’m not so sure.

 

[Demonspeed]

They can not go up with him anyway
They must pass the guardian test
The tests will be incredibly difficult even for the irregular

And who told you passing a Guardian test in necessary? Who told you that they can't pass them? Tests are usually for teams. Anyway, if Baam has to separate from his friends to climb higher, he won't climb. That's just how he is. He trains so hard so that he can stay with his friends.

 

[shaheer]

Instead of a lifelong climbing forever. Zahard decided to settle down. That is not an issue. He started to get bored of the tests he got most likely and the hurdles he faced. To him I guess nothing presented beyond the 135 th floor. V (prolly arlene too) found their interest in the people and the mundane things around them and thus wanted to climb up.
Zahard had to ensure his reign wasnt questioned and thus closed off the door. I guess its like Infinite stratos and its following manga where the MC of IS becomes a seemingly tyrant later. The key thing is this: the story we are seeing is Bams, doesnt matter how many protagonist completed their story before Bam, if they cross his ways they will be deemed as villains.

 

[tornidooo]

And who told you passing a Guardian test in necessary? Who told you that they can't pass them? Tests are usually for teams. Anyway, if Baam has to separate from his friends to climb higher, he won't climb. That's just how he is. He trains so hard so that he can stay with his friends.

what do you say ? Certainly a necessity
Zahard and the heads of the families did not pass until after passing the guardian tests
The tower is not a garden
You can not climb if you are not worth it
This is the law of the tower
Also we do not know his thinking and personality at the time
He may become a adventurous person and love the challenge like Zahard
Baam character is clearly changing over time
+ Getting away from his friends would be temporary

 

[Demonspeed]

what do you say ? Certainly a necessity
Zahard and the heads of the families did not pass until after passing the guardian tests
The tower is not a garden
You can not climb if you are not worth it
This is the law of the tower
Also we do not know his thinking and personality at the time
He may become a adventurous person and love the challenge like Zahard
Baam character is clearly changing over time
+ Getting away from his friends would be temporary

We don't know much about Guardian tests in the first place. And Team Zahard's situation was different. They were the pioneers. What is your source? I don't remember SIU mentioning something like that and I don't remember him saying that Regulars can clear a Guardian test. Of course you can't climb if you are not worth it and that's why they all train to be worth it. Baam is changing yes, but certain things never change. Changing to the point he would abandon his friends? It's as likely as Rak stopping to call people turtles. Even when Zahard stopped climbing, he made the others stop.

Instead of a lifelong climbing forever. Zahard decided to settle down. That is not an issue. He started to get bored of the tests he got most likely and the hurdles he faced. To him I guess nothing presented beyond the 135 th floor. V (prolly arlene too) found their interest in the people and the mundane things around them and thus wanted to climb up.
Zahard had to ensure his reign wasnt questioned and thus closed off the door. I guess its like Infinite stratos and its following manga where the MC of IS becomes a seemingly tyrant later. The key thing is this: the story we are seeing is Bams, doesnt matter how many protagonist completed their story before Bam, if they cross his ways they will be deemed as villains.

??? You think the tower doesn't have a top?

 

[shaheer]

? You think the tower doesn't have a top?

IDK. may be it does and may be they were 3-4 floors from the top. May be it doesnt who knows.

 

[tornidooo]

We don't know much about Guardian tests in the first place. And Team Zahard's situation was different. They were the pioneers. What is your source? I don't remember SIU mentioning something like that and I don't remember him saying that Regulars can clear a Guardian test.

Their condition is not different
If Baam and his friends continue, they will also be pioneers
Yes, the regulars can pass the guardian test
In this case it is a condition and not optional

Baam is changing yes, but certain things never change. Changing to the point he would abandon his friends? It's as likely as Rak stopping to call people turtles. Even when Zahard stopped climbing, he made the others stop.

Even things that you think can not change in his personality can change
It's not surprising that he turns into an adventurer like Zahard
Even if that meant a temporary separation from his friends
A bigger shift has already occurred

Even when Zahard stopped climbing, he made the others stop.

This is something to be expected
He has become a tyrant