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Chapter Tower of God Chapter 389 Discussion / 390 Predictions

Namchan

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All of their fights show they are not in the same ballpark. If anything there is a good chance that karaka could try hitting an unsuspecting yuri with all his might to the back of her head and she'd still barely feel it.
I’d give Karaka a little more credit than that . No doubt he is weaker than Yuri, but he keeps surviving their meetings, which luck or not, he is still managing to do for all of Yuris great power . She also has acknowledged him a serious potential threat, so I’d say she only but so many times to get a easy fight with Karaka before he gets some type of power up, and becomes a serious problem.
 

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All of their fights show they are not in the same ballpark. If anything there is a good chance that karaka could try hitting an unsuspecting yuri with all his might to the back of her head and she'd still barely feel it.
You're thinking too shallowly.

in that way, from what we know Karaka is almost unkillable as he can use his save time slot(?) to revive himself completely in a fresh state, Yuri would also never defeat him.

What we COULD get out of this is that they're in very similar standing to one another. Especially how often the author stack them against one another.
 

kkck

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I would not really say that. They met thrice and Yuri has yet to eliminate Karaka, if she was so much stronger, she would have dealt with him already. Even while Baam and the others were in the data world, they were still together. Yuri is stronger, but Karaka isn't that far behind.
The first fight was right outside the regular's area. And yuri was trying to nor murder bam. And at the floor of death karaka was saved by the unstable shinsoo when yuri had trouble attacking. And now they are fighting within the hell train where yuri can't go all out for way too many reasons. Pit them against each other somewhere where yuri can afford to go all out and it will take yuri 2 or 3 punches to murder karaka's sorry ass. Karaka at the moment is nothing next to yuri. The only thing karaka has going for him is his respawn ability.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You're thinking too shallowly.

in that way, from what we know Karaka is almost unkillable as he can use his save time slot(?) to revive himself completely in a fresh state, Yuri would also never defeat him.

What we COULD get out of this is that they're in very similar standing to one another. Especially how often the author stack them against one another.
Shallowy? How? karaka can't even put a dent on yuri at all. Him being able to respawn doesn't change that at all. There is nothing about this that suggests they have similar standing. For one thing, their rankings are enough to categorically disprove such a notion. As far as performance goes given karaka's spells it doesn't even make a difference if he fights yuri or urek, in both scenarios karaka respawns elsewhere.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I’d give Karaka a little more credit than that . No doubt he is weaker than Yuri, but he keeps surviving their meetings, which luck or not, he is still managing to do for all of Yuris great power . She also has acknowledged him a serious potential threat, so I’d say she only but so many times to get a easy fight with Karaka before he gets some type of power up, and becomes a serious problem.
Karaka survives the fights because of spells, not because he is anywhere even close to yuri in terms of skill or power. And yeah, yuri did acknowledge karaka as an eventual threat. But eventually being a threat doesn't mean karaka is currently on the same level as yuri. Karaka to yuri is just a difficult insect to squish, nothing else.
 

Demonspeed

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The first fight was right outside the regular's area. And yuri was trying to nor murder bam. And at the floor of death karaka was saved by the unstable shinsoo when yuri had trouble attacking. And now they are fighting within the hell train where yuri can't go all out for way too many reasons. Pit them against each other somewhere where yuri can afford to go all out and it will take yuri 2 or 3 punches to murder karaka's sorry ass. Karaka at the moment is nothing next to yuri. The only thing karaka has going for him is his respawn ability.
During their first fight she used Kranos and even that wasn't enough. She didn't want Baam and the others to be noticed but it's not like she was restricting herself either, she didn't even know they were planning to go out at first. If Yuri is restricted inside the train then it's the same for Karaka as well and spells are part of Karaka's skill set. It's like saying that Karaka can't beat her because Yuri has her strong body.

Anyway, it doesn't really change what I said. If Yuri was so much stronger, Karaka would have been dealt with already. They faced each other thrice. Mazino crushed Karaka at 1% of his power, now that's an example of being much stronger, Yuri hasn't shown that. The gap is clearly not that big.
 

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During their first fight she used Kranos and even that wasn't enough. She didn't want Baam and the others to be noticed but it's not like she was restricting herself either, she didn't even know they were planning to go out at first. If Yuri is restricted inside the train then it's the same for Karaka as well and spells are part of Karaka's skill set. It's like saying that Karaka can't beat her because Yuri has her strong body.

Anyway, it doesn't really change what I said. If Yuri was so much stronger, Karaka would have been dealt with already. They faced each other thrice. Mazino crushed Karaka at 1% of his power, now that's an example of being much stronger, Yuri hasn't shown that. The gap is clearly not that big.
No, there is a difference there beyond it merely being a part of his skillset. Karaka uses spells to respawn, killing karaka isn't merely a matter of strength. Hence why I mentioned it doesn't matter if karaka fights urek or yuri, he still respawns. Urek could nuke karaka with his strongest shinsoo blast and he'd survive it the same as if it was half of urek's finger. And of course it would be ridiculous to suggest this feat means karaka is close to urek. Defeating karaka's immortality should require something to beat his spell, basically a higher spell.

Karaka survived kranos but he did so at great cost, he was bleeding all over, lost a limb and even and also an armor inventory. And then when karaka stepped out of line when attacking the other regulars yuri straight up ended karaka with her rose shower attack. After which point he respawned. In turn literally nothing karaka did put so much as a dent on yuri. And it is not because yuri had a broken skill which made her immune to damage or anything like that, she was simply that tough.
 

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Where is your source that Hagipherione is around the same age as Yuri? She defeated White, who has been trapped in the HT for a long time. I am not sure about this.
Mathematics
Urek was the first person to ever successfully pass Arie Hon's special test. Urek entered the tower after Phantaminum. Yuri was already a princess when Phantaminum entered (she was not a regular). Hagipherionu can not be much older than Yuri. Hagipherionu should already be climbing the tower when Urek entered (she did the test after him). I'd say that Hagipherionu is 100-200 years older than Yuri. Yuri is ~600 years old and the only princess to receive a 13 months in the last 500 years.

Anyway, it doesn't really change what I said. If Yuri was so much stronger, Karaka would have been dealt with already. They faced each other thrice. Mazino crushed Karaka at 1% of his power, now that's an example of being much stronger, Yuri hasn't shown that. The gap is clearly not that big.
This is not much stronger. This is very much much stronger hahaha. Karaka has the hax. He can't damage Yuri and was only able to survive against her because of his hax. You see, he was able to survive even against 1% of Urek.
 

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I don't think Adori can beat a Family Head.
True :XD, they're immortals and she was ordered to kill Po Bidau family (but it would be impossible to kill the leader himself), it sound a bit that Zahard's order was a strategy to weaken Gustang's influence and power in the tower, but I also wonder if we will see more about the contracts of immortality, there has to be more layers to it than just "only administrator can remove it", also why Hendo was excluded but adm. accepted giving him immortality under other conditions.

Time to learn more about the feuds between the 10 families and Zahard, I guess.

- The item or power that Gustang gave to Rachel CURRENTLY HAS the Bracelet that Data Zahard wanted to give to Baam
- Let's not forget that Rachel also has Wangnan's Zahard ring in her possession as well before entering the Hidden Floor
- That makes it 2 key items now!!!! (Zahard Red Ring and Bracelet from Data Zahard)
- If translation is correct (what was posted on this forum) Maschenny in addition to following Zahard's will, is also following Adori's will. It seems for now. If that's true, that can be extremely dangerous right now.
I don't like how Rachel gets those key items, but it seems to be something an irregular could acquire, it's still annoying she gets those :oh

[TN: Strange, it should be 8, but on the blog post it says 7…]
I think that's because Enne was number 7 and Adori was 8, but when Enne was sealed, Adori became 7.
 

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True :XD, they're immortals and she was ordered to kill Po Bidau family (but it would be impossible to kill the leader himself), it sound a bit that Zahard's order was a strategy to weaken Gustang's influence and power in the tower, but I also wonder if we will see more about the contracts of immortality, there has to be more layers to it than just "only administrator can remove it", also why Hendo was excluded but adm. accepted giving him immortality under other conditions.
I'm sure people that have shinsu control above the administrator can directly bypass the immortality contract. Urek can't as shown against Hell Joe, his shinsu control is lower than a part of the administrator.

Only Enryu could do it, and also Baam since he has the thorn which is from Enryu.
 

Lady pompom

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I'm sure people that have shinsu control above the administrator can directly bypass the immortality contract. Urek can't as shown against Hell Joe, his shinsu control is lower than a part of the administrator.

Only Enryu could do it, and also Baam since he has the thorn which is from Enryu.
Bamm will probably be able to do it, since FUG's wish is exactly giving him more power to become a slayer.

My point was: Enryuu can do it, but can Zahard do it too? If he can't his point in chasing down Po Bidau family would be to weaken Gustang and not actually to kill him, but Zahard is still a mystery we don't know which sort of contract/conditions he had with adm. and why he locked upper floors (I mean, could it be he has powers to kill adm, but never used it for some reason? I doubt it, but...). SIU also stated Gustang is an antagonist, so maybe this fight has more it (besides Enne) or it's just Zahard trying to catch a traitor rat :XD
 

Kiibou

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Bamm will probably be able to do it, since FUG's wish is exactly giving him more power to become a slayer.

My point was: Enryuu can do it, but can Zahard do it too? If he can't his point in chasing down Po Bidau family would be to weaken Gustang and not actually to kill him, but Zahard is still a mystery we don't know which sort of contract/conditions he had with adm. and why he locked upper floors (I mean, could it be he has powers to kill adm, but never used it for some reason? I doubt it, but...). SIU also stated Gustang is an antagonist, so maybe this fight has more it (besides Enne) or it's just Zahard trying to catch a traitor rat :XD
I would like to think that if Zahard had the ability to kill an administrator, he wouldn't need the contract in the first place since if that was the case, his own shinsu control should be good enough to give himself the immortality. But since he has the admin's contract, I think his shinsu control ability is lower than the admin's too.

I think Zahard actually meant in his order to annihilate the the entire family, most likely including Gustang. Even if he can't be killed, he could maybe be sealed.

Gustang is a true bro.
 

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Bamm will probably be able to do it, since FUG's wish is exactly giving him more power to become a slayer.

My point was: Enryuu can do it, but can Zahard do it too? If he can't his point in chasing down Po Bidau family would be to weaken Gustang and not actually to kill him, but Zahard is still a mystery we don't know which sort of contract/conditions he had with adm. and why he locked upper floors (I mean, could it be he has powers to kill adm, but never used it for some reason? I doubt it, but...). SIU also stated Gustang is an antagonist, so maybe this fight has more it (besides Enne) or it's just Zahard trying to catch a traitor rat :XD
I think this is sort of the point in regards to the "po bidao" family. Zahard can kill the entire family but he can't kill gustang. Gustang was worried that urek might target his family as well. If zahard wanted gustang dead then he would have likely targeted him by name. But then again, that would have been an impossible request.
 

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I wonder how immortality works. Is it absolute? For instance, if a great force were to atomize or obliterate an immortal's body, would that person still be alive? I would venture that Enryu's power prevented the administrator from regenerating, but would incineration have the same result or would an immortal be imune to incineration prior to shinsoo negation? I ask because it seems that immortals can take damage but can't die or do they in fact take damage outside of shinsoo disruption/negation?
 

Kiibou

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I wonder how immortality works. Is it absolute? For instance, if a great force were to atomize or obliterate an immortal's body, would that person still be alive? I would venture that Enryu's power prevented the administrator from regenerating, but would incineration have the same result or would an immortal be imune to incineration prior to shinsoo negation? I ask because it seems that immortals can take damage but can't die or do they in fact take damage outside of shinsoo disruption/negation?
It’s most likely the unlimited regeneration type of immortality.

you could atomized them and they would still regenerate unless your powers works at a higher level than shinsu or maybe just higher than the administrator’s control of shinsu.
 

Demonspeed

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No, there is a difference there beyond it merely being a part of his skillset. Karaka uses spells to respawn, killing karaka isn't merely a matter of strength. Hence why I mentioned it doesn't matter if karaka fights urek or yuri, he still respawns. Urek could nuke karaka with his strongest shinsoo blast and he'd survive it the same as if it was half of urek's finger. And of course it would be ridiculous to suggest this feat means karaka is close to urek. Defeating karaka's immortality should require something to beat his spell, basically a higher spell.

Karaka survived kranos but he did so at great cost, he was bleeding all over, lost a limb and even and also an armor inventory. And then when karaka stepped out of line when attacking the other regulars yuri straight up ended karaka with her rose shower attack. After which point he respawned. In turn literally nothing karaka did put so much as a dent on yuri. And it is not because yuri had a broken skill which made her immune to damage or anything like that, she was simply that tough.
Reading this it's like you are saying that Karaka is completely immortal, it's not invincible. I am pretty sure that if Urek really wants to kill Karaka for good, he will do so. Same for all the other people who are much stronger than him. Karaka's Infinite Past Lives is still one of his abilities and he hasn't needed this since their first battle.
 

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It’s most likely the unlimited regeneration type of immortality.

you could atomized them and they would still regenerate unless your powers works at a higher level than shinsu or maybe just higher than the administrator’s control of shinsu.
Like Karaka’s ability to the extreme almost...

I’ve been thinking Karaka’s powers have been offshoots of Zahard’s in ways... His gold and black baangs, his black tendril move (which looks exactly like Zahard and Wangnans horns) incomplete regen.... Wangnan also has shown an offshoot of immortality of sorts. When he was stabbed in the heart and his use of antimatter...

I guess it’s logical they would have Zahard powers to the minuscule degree...
 

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Reading this it's like you are saying that Karaka is completely immortal, it's not invincible. I am pretty sure that if Urek really wants to kill Karaka for good, he will do so. Same for all the other people who are much stronger than him. Karaka's Infinite Past Lives is still one of his abilities and he hasn't needed this since their first battle.
That's a fairly big claim considering urek didn't actually end karaka when he fought him. He simply recognized the spell and that is it. There is no evidence of this being the case. To go further, there is no evidence that a spell like karaka's can be overcome with sheer might either. Urek as far as we know cannot simply sneeze a spell away simply because he wants to. As far as the manga has told us how you overcome a spell is either by overwriting it or using a higher grade spell. Out of which only one of those requires skill, the overwriting one, and even that wouldn't necessarily be a reflection of strength. In the case of the soul spell at the floor of death even gustang made the point that he couldn't simply undo the spell (at a minimum it would be difficult) and urek didn't seem to have the means to deal with it either.
 

cash2088

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That's a fairly big claim considering urek didn't actually end karaka when he fought him. He simply recognized the spell and that is it. There is no evidence of this being the case. To go further, there is no evidence that a spell like karaka's can be overcome with sheer might either. Urek as far as we know cannot simply sneeze a spell away simply because he wants to. As far as the manga has told us how you overcome a spell is either by overwriting it or using a higher grade spell. Out of which only one of those requires skill, the overwriting one, and even that wouldn't necessarily be a reflection of strength. In the case of the soul spell at the floor of death even gustang made the point that he couldn't simply undo the spell (at a minimum it would be difficult) and urek didn't seem to have the means to deal with it either.
I’m inclined to agree (but Kkck has long since ignored me hahaha)

The only thing I would say is Karaka’s regen isn’t absolute nor is it complete we just have yet to understand the mechanism by which it works. Once that is revealed I’m sure one has ways of countering the spell given enough knowledge.

Urek wasn’t worried about it at all though, and Karaka was smart enough to realize he wasn’t in his league at all..

He is even deferential to White, but then again White is a known sorcerer..
 

Demonspeed

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That's a fairly big claim considering urek didn't actually end karaka when he fought him. He simply recognized the spell and that is it. There is no evidence of this being the case. To go further, there is no evidence that a spell like karaka's can be overcome with sheer might either. Urek as far as we know cannot simply sneeze a spell away simply because he wants to. As far as the manga has told us how you overcome a spell is either by overwriting it or using a higher grade spell. Out of which only one of those requires skill, the overwriting one, and even that wouldn't necessarily be a reflection of strength. In the case of the soul spell at the floor of death even gustang made the point that he couldn't simply undo the spell (at a minimum it would be difficult) and urek didn't seem to have the means to deal with it either.
It isn't absolute. SIU himself said this. And it was clear that Urek was superior to him in every way, but with Yuri Karaka was able to trade blows with her and stop some of her attacks. He only needed to use IPW once against her during 3 confrontations. When Baam and the others came back I wasn't expecting to see them still fighting. The time spent in the data world is probably different ut still, I doubt it was like a 30 seconds or two minutes in the real one.
 

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One is in the top 500 high rankers the other isn’t even a high ranker yet. How is there a power comparison ?
 

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One is in the top 500 high rankers the other isn’t even a high ranker yet. How is there a power comparison ?
There isn’t....

If there are valid arguments for Karaka to be had it’d be that he smart enough to survive his encounters with Yuri, but he’s nowhere near her (power) level.
 
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