Chapter Tower of God Chapter 389 Discussion / 390 Predictions

[kkck]

To me, it seems that Yuri, without any of her 13 months, is weaker than both Jinsung and Maschenny. But with those two weapons that she could both ignite at the same time, even Maschenny would be shitting in her pants against her; which is why she's been after the green April, trying to get it through a bet, rather than directly challenging Yuri. Hell Joe himself was so scared of Yuri with those two weapons ignited that he tried to negotiate with her and wished not to fight her in that mode.

Siu's words were therefore correct that Yuri is stronger than Jinsung.

As for the Karaka vs Yuri debate, Yuri has never tried a 13fh month on his sorry ass, which could terminate his immortality spell

huh? As of now the point made in the series is that neither weapon is all that power in the grand scheme of things. Even siu made the point that yuri had stronger weapons than that. The 13 month series aren't special because they are specially powerful, they are special because of what they represent. And recently we learned they also have high grade spells though as far as we know that isn't relevant here (though that is what hell joe was interested in when it comes to yuri back then). Mascheny and jinsung are both much older than yuri and also very wealthy, odds are both of them have much better weapons than the 13 month series. SIU afaik has not said yuri is stronger than jinsung.

 

[cash2088]

huh? As of now the point made in the series is that neither weapon is all that power in the grand scheme of things. Even siu made the point that yuri had stronger weapons than that. The 13 month series aren't special because they are specially powerful, they are special because of what they represent. And recently we learned they also have high grade spells though as far as we know that isn't relevant here (though that is what hell joe was interested in when it comes to yuri back then). Mascheny and jinsung are both much older than yuri and also very wealthy, odds are both of them have much better weapons than the 13 month series. SIU afaik has not said yuri is stronger than jinsung.

SIU also made the point that Yuri’s rank jumped just from gaining a second of the series. Also, although there may be technically stronger weapons the 13 month series are symbols of power and prestige, that is cumulative in effect as you gain more of them...

You won’t see my response because you couldn’t stand debating me but the point remains “they aren’t all powerful in the grand scheme of things” is a weak and lazy dismissal..

They hold parts of the keys necessary to access Zahard.. That makes them supremely powerful, even more so than what could be considered the more devastatingly offensive weapons of the tower. Even still they are top tier weapons no matter how you slice it.. In power, prestige, and symbolism etc.

 

[OneEye]

huh? As of now the point made in the series is that neither weapon is all that power in the grand scheme of things. Even siu made the point that yuri had stronger weapons than that. The 13 month series aren't special because they are specially powerful, they are special because of what they represent. And recently we learned they also have high grade spells though as far as we know that isn't relevant here (though that is what hell joe was interested in when it comes to yuri back then). Mascheny and jinsung are both much older than yuri and also very wealthy, odds are both of them have much better weapons than the 13 month series. SIU afaik has not said yuri is stronger than jinsung.

Oh no no no! The 13th months are not just ceremonial weapons. They may not exactly be the strongest weapons we have in the tower, but still they hold a monstrous amount of power in store for whoever possesses and successfully ignites them. On the floor of tests, Anak was all that special primarily because she had the Green April. There's just no way she would have made a draw game with Ran if she still had it. Princesses kill one another just to get one or two of them. And the best example at hand is Yuri igniting two of them and becoming more frightful than she was against Karaka though she even had the strongest ignition weapon back then

So then, indeed, the thirteen months are powerful in the grand scheme of things; seriously, we know of no one holding one and being termed " weak". Plus, I bet you, Jinsung will lost to Maschenny primarily because she will ignite her Yellow May

 

[Demonspeed]

Oh no no no! The 13th months are not just ceremonial weapons. They may not exactly be the strongest weapons we have in the tower, but still they hold a monstrous amount of power in store for whoever possesses and successfully ignites them. On the floor of tests, Anak was all that special primarily because she had the Green April. There's just no way she would have made a draw game with Ran if she still had it. Princesses kill one another just to get one or two of them. And the best example at hand is Yuri igniting two of them and becoming more frightful than she was against Karaka though she even had the strongest ignition weapon back then

So then, indeed, the thirteen months are powerful in the grand scheme of things; seriously, we know of no one holding one and being termed " weak". Plus, I bet you, Jinsung will lost to Maschenny primarily because she will ignite her Yellow May

They are strong, but they are not the best of the best either. Green April and Black March are B-rank and there is only one S-rank weapon in the series which is Golden November. Anak wasn't strong primarily because she had the Green April, she used it only once IIRC. She was just strong, back then only Androssi was stronger. Yuri became like that become a ghost possessed her, it doesn't meant that she was stronger than when she used Kranos.

 

[cash2088]

They are strong, but they are not the best of the best either. Green April and Black March are B-rank and there is only one S-rank weapon in the series which is Golden November. Anak wasn't strong primarily because she had the Green April, she used it only once IIRC. She was just strong, back then only Androssi was stronger. Yuri became like that become a ghost possessed her, it doesn't meant that she was stronger than when she used Kranos.

They combine, in essence they are fragments of a whole... Like the thorn... I know you were of the opinion all thorn fragments are equal in strength but that opposes all laws of fragmentation as we know it...

When a glass shatters it doesn’t conveniently shatter into equal pieces, why would the 13 months? Or the thorn?

So should you say the Thorn isn’t supremely strong because it’s fragmented? Or would you say each fragment is powerful but as a whole it’s OP...

Either way her having both of them went from her not being able to use shinsoo to her killing Hell Joe underlings, offensive might isn’t the only measure of strength, that has been said repeatedly... What good would Kronos be against immortals on the floor of death? Therefore in that circumstance even as an S ranked weapon it is weaker and less effective than an ignited Black March or Green April...

In fact if Yuri ignited black March and attacked Karaka could he regenerate? Or would it’s spells interfere? In that instance again 13 month > Kronos....

 

[darkraoul]

Why some keep saying Jinsung is stronger? I though that too until i read blog post again. Siu said Junsung was weaker. Yuri has the strenght of a top 100. We dont even know if Macheney is stronger than Yuri we simply assume because she has a higher rank.

 

[cash2088]

Why some keep saying Jinsung is stronger? I though that too until i read blog post again. Siu said Junsung was weaker. Yuri has the strenght of a top 100. We dont even know if Macheney is stronger than Yuri we simply assume because she has a higher rank.

We assume a lot but Maschenny has directly spoken to Yuri as if she isn’t her equal in combat or rank. She invited her to her mansion to speak and it appeared as of Yuri was deferential to her. I have little doubt Maschenny is the stronger of the two currently.

And what blog post?

 

[axl2608]

And what blog post?

Blogpost, season 2, chapter 155.

"Among those whom Baam has met so far, he is the strongest ‘person’ yet. (Excluding Yuri and Mazino.)"

This was in the thread a few pages back .
http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/Vol.2_Ch.155:_36F_-_Hell_Train:_Hoaqin_(3)

 

[shaheer]

You guys seriously think Yuri can beat Jinsung? Thats cute.

 

[cash2088]

This was in the thread a few pages back .
http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/Vol.2_Ch.155:_36F_-_Hell_Train:_Hoaqin_(3)

Doesn’t say Yuri is stronger... and given it is translated from Korean can “except” be taken for a direct comparison? Maybe just a mention because Yuri is nowhere close to Urek.... So it makes little sense to say them two other than to maybe correlate Yuri’s potential strength...

One is a High Ranker and the other is not, one has been off the radar for hundreds of years the other has not, lastly Ha Jinsung has been described by SIU in that same blog post as “one of the most dangerous people still active ”

I don’t think Yuri is stronger than Jinsung.... She may have more potential to be but she is not currently..

 

[axl2608]

One is a High Ranker and the other is not

As far as I know, they are both high rankers.
The rank just differs. Yuri was in the 500 and Jinsung 100, but in the meantime Yuri climbed a bit more.
This is an interesting topic and unless SIU confirms it we will probably never know if Yuri is stronger than Jinsung.

I personally like Jinsung as a character and I would want him to win against Mascheny, but I don't think that he is stronger than Yuri or Mascheny. Yuri is considered the successor(not as she will inherit, but as she is similar) of the house head and she is also a Jahad princess which are stated to be the strongest beings in the tower.

 

[shaheer]

Yuri is a Highranker by a virtue of both influence (princess) and power. Jinsung rose the rank by sheer obliteration ie his power. If Jinsung wants he can kill Yuri and karaka till karaka cant come back, while Yuri is doing a piggy back tug of war with a novice slayer, thats how i see it.

 

[Demonspeed]

Why some keep saying Jinsung is stronger? I though that too until i read blog post again. Siu said Junsung was weaker. Yuri has the strenght of a top 100. We dont even know if Macheney is stronger than Yuri we simply assume because she has a higher rank.

No, I don't believe Maschenny is stronger because of her rank. I do because of her achievements, her experience and what we know about her. The most notorious princess of her family so far, member of a special branch, a genius and creator of her own style. The Lightning Spear technique she created is one of the greatest Spear Bearer technique in the Tower.

SIU directly compared Karaka who is young and talented but a rising star to Yuri, I get that there are fans saying that Yuri is much stronger, but the facts are that they faced thrice and he is still here, he can trade blows with here and doesn't seem particularly disadvantaged. And I don't believe Karaka is close to the level of Jinsung, his master, right now. So, to me, Jinsung has to be stronger than Yuri.

They combine, in essence they are fragments of a whole... Like the thorn... I know you were of the opinion all thorn fragments are equal in strength but that opposes all laws of fragmentation as we know it...

When a glass shatters it doesn’t conveniently shatter into equal pieces, why would the 13 months? Or the thorn?

So should you say the Thorn isn’t supremely strong because it’s fragmented? Or would you say each fragment is powerful but as a whole it’s OP...

Either way her having both of them went from her not being able to use shinsoo to her killing Hell Joe underlings, offensive might isn’t the only measure of strength, that has been said repeatedly... What good would Kronos be against immortals on the floor of death? Therefore in that circumstance even as an S ranked weapon it is weaker and less effective than an ignited Black March or Green April...

In fact if Yuri ignited black March and attacked Karaka could he regenerate? Or would it’s spells interfere? In that instance again 13 month > Kronos....

I don't think my memory is that great but when Yuri was possessed I believe she had both weapons in hands, they didn't fuse.

As far as I know, they are both high rankers.
The rank just differs. Yuri was in the 500 and Jinsung 100, but in the meantime Yuri climbed a bit more.
This is an interesting topic and unless SIU confirms it we will probably never know if Yuri is stronger than Jinsung.

I personally like Jinsung as a character and I would want him to win against Mascheny, but I don't think that he is stronger than Yuri or Mascheny. Yuri is considered the successor(not as she will inherit, but as she is similar) of the house head and she is also a Jahad princess which are stated to be the strongest beings in the tower.

He was talking about Karaka I think.

 

[cash2088]

I don't think my memory is that great but when Yuri was possessed I believe she had both weapons in hands, they didn't fuse.



He was talking about Karaka I think.

No but her power was boosted exponentially by igniting both simultaneously, as I said cumulative effect. The synergistic relationship between the weapons is apparent in the dialogue between both Ghosts of Black March and Green April.

http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/13_Month_Series

“When weapons of the 13 Month Series meet, they will resonate and their owners can feel it.”

Where did I say they need to fuse in order for their powers to stack?

And yes I was referring to Karaka not being a high ranker and yet pretty much Yuri’s nemesis, to which she said if left alone would come to be a problem in the near future. Thank you for clarifying for me ...

but you know the point of our debate was the relative power of the 13 months not whether they fuse or not. I agree with you though they aren’t the strongest or the best but they aren’t slouch weapons either. Especially given what we don’t know about the extent of their spell breaking capability.

 

[shaheer]

Spell breaking capability is advantageous when it comes to places like FoD. Jinsung is someone who is feared by the Fug elders and showed no fear when Machenny came with the whole RED squad, he isnt a brash hot headed idiot like Yuri who goes around acting like an over grown baby hitting Urek and igniting 2 weapon and what not. He is a calm calculating individual, for him to be that laid back as we see, implies he is really not at a disadvantage yet. While ofcourse he can be done in by folks in RED given they have adori and i m sure others who are definitely stronger than him but if its Yuri and hec i m kinda willing to even say Garam, Jinsung will be able to slaughter.

 

[Demonspeed]

No but her power was boosted exponentially by igniting both simultaneously, as I said cumulative effect. The synergistic relationship between the weapons is apparent in the dialogue between both Ghosts of Black March and Green April.

http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/13_Month_Series

“When weapons of the 13 Month Series meet, they will resonate and their owners can feel it.”

Where did I say they need to fuse in order for their powers to stack?

And yes I was referring to Karaka not being a high ranker and yet pretty much Yuri’s nemesis, to which she said if left alone would come to be a problem in the near future. Thank you for clarifying for me ...

but you know the point of our debate was the relative power of the 13 months not whether they fuse or not. I agree with you though they aren’t the strongest or the best but they aren’t slouch weapons either. Especially given what we don’t know about the extent of their spell breaking capability.

I will explain further. You said they can combine, but back then they didn't combine, she simply ignited both at once. The 13MS can combine, but only when they are all together. At least that's what has been revealed.

Yuri got stronger, but not because of a synergy, it's because she ignited two of them at once and the problem with that is that you lose control once you try it and become possessed by the Ghost, igniting only one would have been enough for the job but she didn't do it. Yuri could have ignited only Black March or Green April along with another IW like, let's say White Hoar for example and she would have gotten stronger too, since two is better than one. But there is no implied synergy.

The Thorn has been split in four and get stronger, unlocking new abilities when they combine. It's not implied to be the case with 13MS when they are incomplete(like with 2, 3 or even 12), Yuri(or rather, the Ghost possessing her) didn't show anything special besides the anti-spell technique which can be done with only one of them.

 

[kkck]

Oh no no no! The 13th months are not just ceremonial weapons. They may not exactly be the strongest weapons we have in the tower, but still they hold a monstrous amount of power in store for whoever possesses and successfully ignites them. On the floor of tests, Anak was all that special primarily because she had the Green April. There's just no way she would have made a draw game with Ran if she still had it. Princesses kill one another just to get one or two of them. And the best example at hand is Yuri igniting two of them and becoming more frightful than she was against Karaka though she even had the strongest ignition weapon back then

So then, indeed, the thirteen months are powerful in the grand scheme of things; seriously, we know of no one holding one and being termed " weak". Plus, I bet you, Jinsung will lost to Maschenny primarily because she will ignite her Yellow May

I didn't say ceremonial. I said their significance was mostly symbolic. As for the anak bit... Really? Of course it would give regulars more power than they could use. At the time half the people there could barely even use shinsoo... SIU at the point made the point that that other asshole having an ignition weapon is the equivalent to having a ferrari without having a drivers lesson. Anak having green april would be even more absurd than that. But in the context of high rankers as far as the lore goes the 13 months are not that big a deal. They are ok weapons of course but nothing beyond that. SIU could have of course retconned this but originally the black march was a B rank weapon... and there were as far as we know A and S class weapons. The only 13 month series that originally was all that was the golden november which was s rank. And even at the floor of death the reason the green april and black march stood out was because of their spells, not their raw power, which hell joe thought could serve to escape the place.

 

[OneEye]

I didn't say ceremonial. I said their significance was mostly symbolic. As for the anak bit... Really? Of course it would give regulars more power than they could use. At the time half the people there could barely even use shinsoo... SIU at the point made the point that that other asshole having an ignition weapon is the equivalent to having a ferrari without having a drivers lesson. Anak having green april would be even more absurd than that. But in the context of high rankers as far as the lore goes the 13 months are not that big a deal. They are ok weapons of course but nothing beyond that. SIU could have of course retconned this but originally the black march was a B rank weapon... and there were as far as we know A and S class weapons. The only 13 month series that originally was all that was the golden november which was s rank. And even at the floor of death the reason the green april and black march stood out was because of their spells, not their raw power, which hell joe thought could serve to escape the place.

You're pretty right for most of the part, but for one significant detail: while it's true that Hell Joe needed the spell-breaking ability of the 13 MS, but then, when he finally resolved to kill everyone around him, he clearly stated that if Yuri had ignited the two weapons again, things would have gotten very rough for himself, then he wondered why Yuri didn't ignite them a second time; in few words, Hell Joe feared to face Yuri with that great power.

But still, you're pretty right that the 13 MS aren't really weapons that would frighten a high ranker.

 

[kkck]

You're pretty right for most of the part, but for one significant detail: while it's true that Hell Joe needed the spell-breaking ability of the 13 MS, but then, when he finally resolved to kill everyone around him, he clearly stated that if Yuri had ignited the two weapons again, things would have gotten very rough for himself, then he wondered why Yuri didn't ignite them a second time; in few words, Hell Joe feared to face Yuri with that great power.

But still, you're pretty right that the 13 MS aren't really weapons that would frighten a high ranker.

If yuri could have gotten either of the weapons to work against hell joe then the attacks would have actually posed a threat to him because his immortality was at risk. This isn't a raw power issue, its a spell issue. For all we know yuri might not even have needed to deal damage on hell joe for the weapons to invalidate his immortality spell. And of course there is the question of whether the weapons would have worked once hell joe took away everyone's shinsoo control... Or even how garam or yuri would have performed against him had their shinsoo control not been taken.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah, they felt that the power Yuri had activated was dangerous for them.