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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
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Even among the Yonko, Whitebeard was extraordinary. Comparing him to the other Yonko is I'll advised. The only reason Whotebeard didnt become Pirate King after Roger's death was because he both didnt want the title and was waiting for Ace's time to become the Pirate King.
Tbh, i dont remember Kaido saying such thing. Can you provide proof of this?
Yes, Whitebeard is above the other Yonkos, he is the only one capable of fighting Roger to a standstill, at least he was. He aged and his power diminished due to the age so he came a bit closer to the levels of the other Yonko but i agree that he still was ahead, which was even confirmed by presenting WB as strongest Pirate alive. His DF was very destructive and the number of underlings and allied forces is far greater than anything we saw from anyone else.
@ThatOtherGuy Well for a top tier, having no ground shouldnt be a problem but he wasnt able to stand in that moment even if there was a ground. You cant deny that he was defeated easily there and only appeared after WB died, if that is not plot working in his favor then i dont know what is.
We dont really know how non-logias would deal with Tremor power, we will have a chance to see. I seriously doubt that they are helpless against it, Roger dealt with it, im sure more non-logias will deal with it in future. One of BM's strengths is her amazing defense, for all we know she may tank the Tremor fruit better than Akainu. We will see when the time comes.
Again talking about tiers. Whitebeard's 'tier', if there is such a thing, is made up of Roger and Whitebeard. You have no evidence whatsoever that Big Mom is there. I mean, if we get technical about it, we already have confirmation that she failed to be pirate king in Roger's Era and in Whitebeard's Era, so why would you assume she's as strong?
Big Mom is not there with prime WB and Roger but she may as well be close to old WB. Not only she failed to be PK in Rogers era but all others as well who were in that era, Kaido included so thats not really a minus for her.
Why I assume that she is close is because she said it herself. If she was able to ally with Giants through Lola's marriage, she would have been able to become PK. Giants are not a match for WB so she would still have to deal with WB herself and she's confident that was what she lacked to become PK.
Yes, Kaidos durability is likely better since hes presented as unkillable but shes quite close to it since she was only taking damage when she has a mental breakdown, otherwise nothing ever injured her.
What i mean with "WB didnt have the benefit of CoA" is that he wasnt using CoA hardening to defend against Akainu which characters in post-time-skip are able to use. How do you think Luffy will fight Akainu? Lose all his limbs while hitting him or geting hit?
Yes, when Ace died WB wasnt affected by the age and probably was probably close to his prime, however there is still the stabbed heart and piercing by Kizaru and burned insides previously. When someone with such injuries wrecks an admiral then, imo, that admiral is not comparable in strength.
I am not sure if losing body parts against Akainu will remain a thing since it has to happen to Luffy as well then.
Hopefully, Oda will treat us nice in Wano and give us a proper show off when it comes to Yonko levels and their abilities.
Tbh, i dont remember Kaido saying such thing. Can you provide proof of this?
Yes, Whitebeard is above the other Yonkos, he is the only one capable of fighting Roger to a standstill, at least he was. He aged and his power diminished due to the age so he came a bit closer to the levels of the other Yonko but i agree that he still was ahead, which was even confirmed by presenting WB as stronger Pirate alive. His DF was very destructive and the number of underlings and allied forces is far greater than anything we saw from anyone else.
@ThatOtherGuy Well for a top tier, having no ground shouldnt be a problem but he wasnt able to stand in that moment even if there was a ground. You cant deny that he was defeated easily there and only appeared after WB died, if that is not plot working in his favor then i dont know what is.
We dont really know how non-logias would deal with Tremor power, we will have a chance to see. I seriously doubt that they are helpless against it, Roger dealt with it, im sure more non-logias will deal with it in future. One of BM's strengths is her amazing defense, for all we know she may tank the Tremor fruit better than Akainu. We will see when the time comes.
Big Mom is not there with prime WB and Roger but she may as well be close to old WB. Not only she failed to be PK in Rogers era but all others as well who were in that era, Kaido included so thats not really a minus for her.
Why I assume that she is close is because she said it herself. If she was able to ally with Giants through Lola's marriage, she would have been able to become PK. Giants are not a match for WB so she would still have to deal with WB herself and she's confident that was what she lacked to become PK.
Yes, Kaidos durability is likely better since hes presented as unkillable but shes quite close to it since she was only taking damage when she has a mental breakdown, otherwise nothing ever injured her.
What i mean with "WB didnt have the benefit of CoA" is that he wasnt using CoA hardening to defend against Akainu which characters in post-time-skip are able to use. How do you think Luffy will fight Akainu? Lose all his limbs while hitting him or geting hit?
Yes, when Ace died WB wasnt affected by the age and probably was probably close to his prime, however there is still the stabbed heart and piercing by Kizaru and burned insides previously. When someone with such injuries wrecks an admiral then, imo, that admiral is not comparable in strength.
I am not sure if losing body parts against Akainu will remain a thing since it has to happen to Luffy as well then.
Hopefully, Oda will treat us nice in Wano and give us a proper show off when it comes to Yonko levels and their abilities.
It's beside the point. The point is that such long fights have hype purpose and are an exaggeration. 10 days? Pff, git gud. Dorry and Brogy are in life and death battle for 100 years and its still not over. Totally irrelevant.
Real fights, when you take hype and exaggeration away, dont last long, not even with main character.
I get where you're coming from, and I've been thinking the same thing for months as well. However, where's the proof of this? I mean, Akainu was tanking hits and kept on fighting, it's not hard to believe he has stamina to go for long.
This is how I see it akainu>big mom mainly becuase we don’t big Mom abilities to the fullest but I still believes that big Mom>=akainu big Mom is to be believe to be the weakest yonko while akainu is consider the strongest admiral (fleet adrimal)
Who believes Big Mom to be the weakest Yonkou? There really is no way to tell given that she's still an Emperor. We can assume Whitebeard was the strongest because of his hype, what little he showed in his old age, and the fact that the Marines were the only ones to wage an all-out war against him just to get rid of Ace.
I get where you're coming from, and I've been thinking the same thing for months as well. However, where's the proof of this? I mean, Akainu was tanking hits and kept on fighting, it's not hard to believe he has stamina to go for long.
I am not trying to sh*t on Akainu, I am just saying that these few-days-long fights are an exaggeration. Also, the reason why those fights happened wasnt really a life and death matter. Ace wanted to kill WB while Jinbe wasnt going to allow that. Ace and Jinbe had no real reason to kill each other, fight may as well have ended within a day since there was no real kill intent but to hype it up legend says it lasted 5 days. The same Ace who didnt last a day against Blackbeard on Banaro island.
Akainu and Aokiji had no real kill intent either, they decided to fight it out to decide who will lead the Marines. Even someone as brutal as Akainu didnt end up killing defeated Aokiji. Again, if there was serious kill intent fight would end up much sooner, as we saw how long the same Akainu lasted against Whitebeard. Akainu was tanking everything but it was all fodder level to him until he faced raging Whitebeard, imo undeniably plot worked in his favor as he re-appeared only after the only man who was a threat for him was gone.
If we put Akainu against Big Mom and we exclude plot armors, my money is on Big Mom, more because of her status and what she said was needed for her to become PK than because of the feats, because we didnt see much of her.
What's actually really funny is that is the only accurate answer we can come up with no matter how long we debate the issue.
@nik87 : I actually have a hunch on why exactly the 10 days may not be exactly 10 days. Jinbe vs Ace's 5 days is factual, since it was shown in panel, and correct me if I'm wrong but Jinbe told that story, it wasn't a myth. Jack fighting for 5 days and nights is also factual, so for all intents and purposes, admirals fighting for 10 days is not a stretch. What bugs me though is the very fact that they would fight for dominence at all. These aren't chimps in the forest, they are admirals of the navy. We've been shown that they have their differences in how to do things, but after Akainu expressed indifference towards Aokiji hanging out with Blackbeard, I realised that there is no true mistrust between them. So the reason for the fight itself doesn't seem convincing anymore.
Edit: actually, now that I reread the panel, maybe it wasn't indifference so much as it was annoyance that he had to answer for Aokiji, so disregard this.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
After thinking about it, I actually think I figured out who the weakest Yonko may be. First, let me preface this by saying a few things:
When speaking about te weakest Yonko, I understand that many people will not like the idea itself given that Yonko are not associated with weakness, and any reasoning that actually involves saying one Yonko is weaker than another would seemingly contradict the manga's established idea that the Yonko are the most terrifying force on the seas.
Luffy is clearly weaker than all 4 at this point in time, and until the next Yonko falls, what Morgan called him should only be taken as a prediction. So I'll ignore the obvious Luffy answer I gave above since it's pretty boring anyway.
When I say weakest Yonko, one should really think of it as the one least likely to win a 1v1 vs other Yonko. Military power, which would play a huge role in an actual confrontation to become pirate king, is kind of irrelevant in the contest of this thread, but we should still be aware that even if one Yonko can lose a 1v1 fight against another one, it is still possible for them to come out on top in a millitary confrontation, so it's not cut and dry that the strongest Yonko will come out on top in all possible confrontations.
All this said, maybe the key to figure out who the weakest is, is just to go about it chronologically. We know Big Mom and Kaido were pirating around around the same time as Roger. Big Mom is younger than Whitebeard by about 6 years, and Kaido is probably younger than her given his looks, or maybe he has some racial or DF characterictic that allows him to look younger (such as giants living longer than humans). But regardless of that, we know that when Roger's era came about, Big Mom and Kaido were not their own captains.
This means that they probably didn't reach their top power level and constructed their yonko empires until Roger was out of the picture.
We are also led to believe that Shanks was the youngest and newest Yonko two years ago, which makes sense since he was still hanging out in East Blue for long periods of time back when Luffy was a kid.
So if we analysed the power dynamic right after the Pirate King died, it would look something like this:
Whitebeard is on top, and he's pretty much alone there.
Big Mom and Kaido's empires grow more noticeable. At this point, Kaido seems to be the second strongest, since now he's considered the strongest, so Big Mom is probably third. Though it's unclear when Kaido surpassed her given that she's very likely a lot older than him.
Then Shanks becomes a Yonko, and even two years ago, he was talked down to like a brat by Whitebeard, so it is quite possible that Shanks is too fresh to have actually surpassed Big Mom by this point.
Of course, Whitebeard died two years ago, and the vacancy was quickly occupied by Blackbeard. At this moment in time, we are sure that BB is the weakest, given how little mastery he has over Gura.
But it's still inclear whether Blackbeard has surpassed Big Mom, or if he has surpassed Shanks. I think that he has given that he not only has Gura, which provides enough potential on its own, but also Yami, so he has more brawn than anyone, and quite a bit of hax to cap it off. Shanks stand more of a chance against BB purely because he doesn't rely on a devil fruit for offense, but I'm still inclined to come to the conclusion that after two years of having Gura, BB is the next strongest after Kaido.
So in my mind, figuring out who the weakest Yonko is comes out to Shanks vs Big Mom.
Militarily is doesnt seem like Shanks has an army backing him.
Shanks still holds lots of territory in New World without the numbers to protect them.
That's a clear indication of his strength in relation to the other Yonko.
Same with Blackbeard. but its hinted that even Black Beard has an army now because Jesus Bergess was excited at the thought of taking all of the Revolutionary Armies weapons.
Big Mom. Kaido. Whitebeard had/have huge numbers at their command.
The Gorosei respecting him is also a huge indication of where he stands within the heirarchy of not only the Yonko, but the world of Pirates as a whole.
According to Vivre Card databook which was released last few days Shanks has been a Yonko before he met Luffy and thats why everyone was shocked when a man of his caliber returned from East Blue missing an arm. Databook also tells that Shanks mastered all types of Haki(to what degree its unclear), his age is said to be 39.
Big Mom and Kaido were on the pirate scene long before Shanks was born and they are probably around the same age. We can assume that Kaido is strongest since thats how he was presented but the gap with other Yonkos is most likely minimal. Ranking the other 3 Yonkos is imo pure guessing at this point, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Plot armor is favoring Blackbeard most likely.
We dont know if Shanks controls any territories, if he is like Luffy he probably has nothing under control since he doesnt really care about that stuff. There are territories who seem to be under his protection since we saw Bartolomeo taking it over. Blackbeard already has an infrastructure that we saw aka Pinkbeard.
Imo, all 4 Yonkos are quite close and of comparable strength and i think they can all defeat each other, details would determine the victor.
He also use Haki on Pica too. Won't really be use first opponent to use Haki on. Though Idk if Zoro is fully ready to combat a Calamity yet. We seen Luffy barely defeating his own opponents like Cracker and Katakuri and the last one could be count a tie. Zoro might have much more trouble than Luffy in this case especially when Hawkins was the first to damage him in Wano. Though Zoro does need a first serious fight as his opponents in NW has been too easy for him for the most part. Hope he gets one in Wano, but still rather have Shogun as his ideal opponent.
He also use Haki on Pica too. Won't really be use first opponent to use Haki on. Though Idk if Zoro is fully ready to combat a Calamity yet. We seen Luffy barely defeating his own opponents like Cracker and Katakuri and the last one could be count a tie. Zoro might have much more trouble than Luffy in this case especially when Hawkins was the first to damage him in Wano. Though Zoro does need a first serious fight as his opponents in NW has been too easy for him for the most part. Hope he gets one in Wano, but still rather have Shogun as his ideal opponent.
you know someone like shasha think zorois stronger than Luffy, some of these zoro fans come out with some scary claims.
But tbh, I need to see zoro take down a headliner first lol.
PS
Law will be about to finish hawkins and Enter Jack..."Whatare you doing to my underling"
You're right but not when he split her in two. Zoro overpowered Monet so much that she fainted when he use his move, cause she now she would be dead if he used haki.
Well not sure how do you picture that. Someone who hasnt even shown hardening CoA yet to fight a 1Bil Calamity with swords? Thats a good match up if you want swirly eyebrow to lose a leg or two. Even if he displays hardening its not improving his odds since we saw a more experienced hardening user(Luffy) getting cut by a weaker commander(Cracker) than Jack. Sanji is simply too fragile to fight someone like Jack. Only thing that could give him some chance against Jack is his raid suit which better makes superman out of Sanji or he stands no chance in such a fight.
Same can be said to the man who got puncture by nails and needed medical treatment to how 'fragile' he is and poor on not using his Haki compare to Jack who fucking took a giant elephant's nose to his whole body and was still active and not much pain. By that logic, mosshead is finished before he could even hurt him.
Got to stop undermining Sanji as you act like he never been through pain and fight through it before. The man has durability at high lvl as shown pre-timeskip to post-timeskip.
Sanji could show it this arc as just because we never seen hardening, doesn't mean he don't have it or train to get it as its the same with Jimbei who others question him having Haki or not, but showed it in WCI Arc. Can't have a mindset thinking characters can't get physical stronger especially he is prepping Sanji as one of Luffy's Commanders to his Yonko group and will get stronger especially with Raid Suit involve.
Also like I said, you need serious and struggle fights to make you stronger llike with Luffy vs Katakuri. Remember when people say Luffy will lose the fight, but prove others wrong as his Haki and power improve as it went on. Same thing can happen to others especially for Sanji and Zoro if they are pushed to the limit in their fights. So Sanji vs Jack would be more ideal for training and become more physical stronger while Shogun is more perfect for Zoro and swordplay as he hasn't really face off with a true swordsman and it won't feel same with Jack as he will fight different styles. Best he focus on fighting more swordsmen than fighters as I know others want someone to test his blades more just like others want Sanji to test his physical strength more too.
Idk if Jack is the "Katakuri" of Calamities as we haven't seen the others. Who knows Luffy and Zoro will face off with, but Idk if its Jack especially this soon.
I think Jack vs Sanji would be interesting further down the arc. We have no idea how much the raid suit will actually increase Sanji's fighting power. They definitely made a huge difference for the Germa siblings. This is a good tool for Oda to give Sanji some flex in his power. I know some are going to say Sanji using a RAID suit is BS, but I don't personally see it as being different to Zoro's swords, Nami's Clima Tact, Usopp's plants / sling shot, Franky's Armor, or Chopper's pills. Up until now, Sanji has been the only one on the whole crew to rely 100% on a non-modified body as his weapon of choice.
The other thing is Luffy has a bone to pick with Jack. Pretty sure that Luffy doesn't take too kindly to people committing genocide via a chemical weapon. If Jack shows up soon, there's no way Luffy isn't going to fight him. Forget about Sanji.. Sanji isn't even around at the moment. If Jack shows up, as O'kiku said he would if Holdem is injured, to raze the leftover town, then Luffy vs Jack is certainly going to happen. It would be a good way for Oda to kick off Wano with a huge bang. However, if Jack happens further down the line, then I could see a different Strawhat handling him, no problem. Possibly Sanji. I feel like Zoro is going to have to fight the Shogun, if the Shogun is a strong fighter (which I think he will be. Not sure why Kaido would elevate the status of a weakling so high. He has plenty of strong people willing to bend the knee to him).
@King Moe If you take a step back from desperately wanting Sanji to shine you would realize that you are making up some weird logic, arguing just for the sake of argument and putting Sanji into an impossible fight.
Same can be said for Zoro? No, it can not. Zoro has swords to block Jack's swords, Cat had a spear and Dog had a sword. What is Sanji going to use to block Jack's swords? I said, even if Sanji shows hardening its not improving his odds against Jack. Not even Luffy was taking on the sword attacks from Cracker and Cracker is most likely weaker than Jack. Luffy who is far above Sanji barely managed to beat the commanders and you expect the same feat from Sanji? Jack is an extremely durable opponent while Sanji and durable cannot go into the same sentence. Usopp's Alabasta fight shows more durability than anything Sanji ever did.
As much as you want it, Sanji is not ready for a fight of such caliber and Jack is a very bad matchup for him. He may shine against someone who's a level under Calamities and uses no sharp weapons. Vergo could have been a good matchup for Sanji to improve him but it didnt happen aside from small clash which didnt really look like Sanji has an upper hand and you want to put Sanji vs someone who is above Doflamingo and is a sword user.
Raid suit will improve Sanji's capabilities for sure but i bet it wont make him go from zero to hero. The only opponent i can think of that would fit Sanji could be Scratchman Apoo but even he had some cutting techniques. However, if he figures how to avoid that it could be a good fight and clash of punches and kicks. That's more than big enough of a bite for Sanji.
@King Moe If you take a step back from desperately wanting Sanji to shine you would realize that you are making up some weird logic, arguing just for the sake of argument and putting Sanji into an impossible fight.
Same can be said for Zoro? No, it can not. Zoro has swords to block Jack's swords, Cat had a spear and Dog had a sword. What is Sanji going to use to block Jack's swords? I said, even if Sanji shows hardening its not improving his odds against Jack. Not even Luffy was taking on the sword attacks from Cracker and Cracker is most likely weaker than Jack. Luffy who is far above Sanji barely managed to beat the commanders and you expect the same feat from Sanji? Jack is an extremely durable opponent while Sanji and durable cannot go into the same sentence. Usopp's Alabasta fight shows more durability than anything Sanji ever did.
As much as you want it, Sanji is not ready for a fight of such caliber and Jack is a very bad matchup for him. He may shine against someone who's a level under Calamities and uses no sharp weapons. Vergo could have been a good matchup for Sanji to improve him but it didnt happen aside from small clash which didnt really look like Sanji has an upper hand and you want to put Sanji vs someone who is above Doflamingo and is a sword user.
Raid suit will improve Sanji's capabilities for sure but i bet it wont make him go from zero to hero. The only opponent i can think of that would fit Sanji could be Scratchman Apoo but even he had some cutting techniques. However, if he figures how to avoid that it could be a good fight and clash of punches and kicks. That's more than big enough of a bite for Sanji.
It's not impossible fight and coming from the guy who a true 'hype man' of Zoro when so far he hasn't done anything impressive to prove he can take on Jack at all really. Also blades? Your using blades as a weakness for Sanji? That's a weak excuse your using as you act like Sanji never fought anyone with swords or blades before. He took on Daifuku with his spear blade and still hold his own. Saying he need weapons to defeat him is dumb logic your putting there as it won't affect things in the slightest.
Also you said that and you mention Zoro being able to have better odds when the man got hurt by Hawkins who was just Supernova and wasn't even one of the top tier fighters of the Beast Pirates. Your overhyping Zoro a bit much on thinking he has more of a chance after early in the chapter. Also durability is a problem with Sanji? The man who took 1 billion bolts of electricity of Enel and still standing for awhile, the man who kept fighting Vergo through a fractured leg and even ran with that same leg afterwards? The man who took an explosions (Though Nami was in his body at the time) and still stood up afterwards with Nami complimenting how tough his body is? Sanji also was with Zoro in withstanding Kuma's Urusa Shock too and he has shown more durability when protecting Luffy from attacks during Big Mom pirates came attacking them. Usopp has not shown any durbality to surpassed Sanji and Sanji has stronger body than anyone give credit for. You need reread the series if you think Sanji is 'fragile'. Your letting your biased get the best of you on this.
Nah, Sanji is ready as like I said or better yet Rayleigh said, Haki evolve if your push in tougher situations to evolve it. It happens to everyone and thus Sanji and Zoro are capable of it and they can do the same thing as Luffy if they are push to the limits. You got learn to understand the series more than you know and again by your Logic, we haven't seen Zoro have a serious opponent and when he does, it turn against him as he got slammed hard by Fujitora, couldn't even cut Doflamingo's strings, got put to sleep (literally) by Yeti Brothers, and now recently took worse clash from Hawkins that left him bleeding and don't say "He need to do it to tank for Luffy and O-tama" as it doesn't justify Zoro has Haki. He can predict the nails and block them all or use Armament to cover his body to prevent damage. Make no sense on him taking damage on this subject and your saying Zoro has more chance to take on Jack than Sanji lately? Highly unlikely as he seems to be worse off atm than him on facing serious opponents. At least Sanji hold his on with Semi-Commander guys like Daifuku and Oven and he wasn't even trying. That give more glimpse on what type of character he can face down the line on this.
You got stop undermining Sanji just based on clashes when there are reasonable explanations and him was clearly holding back and wasn't looking for a fight. Listen I understand how Sanji been on fights lately, but guys like you over exaggerate on the subject too much thinking Sanji is done being stronger when he hasn't even shown much of his power as much as Zoro and has a Raid Suit to boot. If you think Sanji is incapable of performing more, your going to be surprise at it since your aiming at the wrong areas and poor false facts about him being 'afraid' with swords when we seen him defeat multiple people with blades before.
That like saying Luffy will lose to someone with blades since rubber can but cut, but he has shown he overcome that and never been a weakness to him especially when fighting with Zoro before in the past. So yeah, please try not to undermine characters and push Zoro to the moon while he has not have a 'stellar' performance lately in fighting serious opponents either. Just saying to you, not trying to hate or anything.
@King Moe If you take a step back from desperately wanting Sanji to shine you would realize that you are making up some weird logic, arguing just for the sake of argument and putting Sanji into an impossible fight.
Same can be said for Zoro? No, it can not. Zoro has swords to block Jack's swords, Cat had a spear and Dog had a sword. What is Sanji going to use to block Jack's swords? I said, even if Sanji shows hardening its not improving his odds against Jack. Not even Luffy was taking on the sword attacks from Cracker and Cracker is most likely weaker than Jack. Luffy who is far above Sanji barely managed to beat the commanders and you expect the same feat from Sanji? Jack is an extremely durable opponent while Sanji and durable cannot go into the same sentence. Usopp's Alabasta fight shows more durability than anything Sanji ever did.
As much as you want it, Sanji is not ready for a fight of such caliber and Jack is a very bad matchup for him. He may shine against someone who's a level under Calamities and uses no sharp weapons. Vergo could have been a good matchup for Sanji to improve him but it didnt happen aside from small clash which didnt really look like Sanji has an upper hand and you want to put Sanji vs someone who is above Doflamingo and is a sword user.
Raid suit will improve Sanji's capabilities for sure but i bet it wont make him go from zero to hero. The only opponent i can think of that would fit Sanji could be Scratchman Apoo but even he had some cutting techniques. However, if he figures how to avoid that it could be a good fight and clash of punches and kicks. That's more than big enough of a bite for Sanji.
First of all Jimbe did block the attack from big mom with his hardening, and they are worlds apart from what we know and can see. weapon or not, we've already seen sanji stop an edged weapon vs Judge with his leg. Sure Judge is weak, but the only loss he really took was vs Big mom so cant really quantify where he stands atm.
Also you say sanji isnt ready for a commander fight yet, but was luffy ready for both that he won? No he wasnt. He took an ass whooping for the most of the fight so you seem to be arguing for arguing sake. Once again youre quick to bring up the vergo situation, but didnt katakuri puncture luffy's stomach? Technically luffy shouldnt have been able to breathe, but he still won. And in the fight vs vergo, if you actually read properly, you'll see that after the crack on sanji's shin, no otherattacks landed and sanji kept up with the attacks after, until vergo dipped(left).
You're now even being more ridiculous by saying scratchmanapoo has cutting edge technique when weve only seen him fight twice. Come on man, theres a level of trolling i can tolerate. Yeah he's strong, but barely any feat.
PS: Admins, I tried to stay out of the argument, the ridiculousness just got to me, but feel free to move this post.
@King Moe This gave me a good laugh. If you are serious at comparing Zoro's and Sanji's durability then you are fanboying over Sanji way too much. Also, please, dont twist my words to fit your argument. I am a Zoro fan but i intend to be objective about it as much as possible. Nowhere have i pushed Zoro to the moon like you present it nor have i said that Sanji is afraid of swords. If you are using Sanji and Zoro fights as Sanji's feats of dealing with swords i have to disappoint you, those are gag moments not Sanji's feats.
Let's take a look at the history of Sanji's fights so we don't "undermine Sanji" as you say it. Sanji vs Pearl, Sanji vs Gin, Sanji vs Kuroobi, Sanji vs mr 13, Sanji vs mr2, Sanji vs Satori, Sanji vs Wanze, Sanji vs Jabra, Sanji vs Absalom and Sanji vs Wadatsumi. Those were his fights.
He had small clashes with Enel, Vergo, Doflamingo, Daifuku and Oven and notice that he hit Oven while Oven wasnt in a fight with him, same as with that clash with Daifuku. Daifuku was trying to hit Carrot and Sanji only managed to block his one hit. Thats all you got to base Sanji abilities on. You are making a big deal out of nothing, same as you make big deal of the nails. Considering what kind of injuries Zoro handled in the past i wonder what are you even trying to accomplish by using the nails as your argument, lol.
So, all those opponents in Sanji past, lets see how many were worthy opponents and how many were fodder. Worthy opponents were Gin, Mr2 and Jabra and serious fight only happened with Mr2 and Jabra. Out of all those opponents, who was using a sharp weapon? Nobody. He showed some endurance by clashing legs with Mr2 and he tanked few hits against Jabra. Thats the legendary endurance of Sanji.
Well, are you trying to say that Sanji is anywhere close to Luffy? Luffy isnt ready for such fight and he has a rubber body to handle the damage better and far superior CoA to Sanji's and ppl still think that Sanji has even a chance against 1Bil commander/calamity level...
Even if Jack wasnt using sharp weapons i would give Sanji no chance and since his weapons are there he's completely outmatched.
Zoro is a far better match for Jack since he is a swordsman as well and can block Jack's swords while Sanji would lose his legs if he were to try blocking them.
Even tho Zoro is a better matchup i am sure he would have plenty of struggle against an opponent worth 1 Billion.
@King Moe This gave me a good laugh. If you are serious at comparing Zoro's and Sanji's durability then you are fanboying over Sanji way too much. Also, please, dont twist my words to fit your argument. I am a Zoro fan but i intend to be objective about it as much as possible. Nowhere have i pushed Zoro to the moon like you present it nor have i said that Sanji is afraid of swords. If you are using Sanji and Zoro fights as Sanji's feats of dealing with swords i have to disappoint you, those are gag moments not Sanji's feats.
Let's take a look at the history of Sanji's fights so we don't "undermine Sanji" as you say it. Sanji vs Pearl, Sanji vs Gin, Sanji vs Kuroobi, Sanji vs mr 13, Sanji vs mr2, Sanji vs Satori, Sanji vs Wanze, Sanji vs Jabra, Sanji vs Absalom and Sanji vs Wadatsumi. Those were his fights.
He had small clashes with Enel, Vergo, Doflamingo, Daifuku and Oven and notice that he hit Oven while Oven wasnt in a fight with him, same as with that clash with Daifuku. Daifuku was trying to hit Carrot and Sanji only managed to block his one hit. Thats all you got to base Sanji abilities on. You are making a big deal out of nothing, same as you make big deal of the nails. Considering what kind of injuries Zoro handled in the past i wonder what are you even trying to accomplish by using the nails as your argument, lol.
So, all those opponents in Sanji past, lets see how many were worthy opponents and how many were fodder. Worthy opponents were Gin, Mr2 and Jabra and serious fight only happened with Mr2 and Jabra. Out of all those opponents, who was using a sharp weapon? Nobody. He showed some endurance by clashing legs with Mr2 and he tanked few hits against Jabra. Thats the legendary endurance of Sanji.
Well, are you trying to say that Sanji is anywhere close to Luffy? Luffy isnt ready for such fight and he has a rubber body to handle the damage better and far superior CoA to Sanji's and ppl still think that Sanji has even a chance against 1Bil commander/calamity level...
Even if Jack wasnt using sharp weapons i would give Sanji no chance and since his weapons are there he's completely outmatched.
Zoro is a far better match for Jack since he is a swordsman as well and can block Jack's swords while Sanji would lose his legs if he were to try blocking them.
Even tho Zoro is a better matchup i am sure he would have plenty of struggle against an opponent worth 1 Billion.
If i wanted to say that, I will spell it out for you. I spoke from what was said in the manga, Haki blossoms when pressed. Sanji could blossom in his fight vs Jack. He could already have hardening and not have used it. Jimbei didnt use hardening until he absolutely needed it.
Although, Going by heirachy of strength in the manga, I'd say Jimbei has a better chance of defeating Jack over zoro and zoro has a higher chance over sanji. But nothing Stops sanji from actually defeating Jack is my point. It will be a hard earned win for sanji but the sword reasons you gave sound dumb af, when we've seen him block A spear with his foot.
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