A>B>C logic means A>B, B>C, so A>C. Go find that and don't come back without nice quote. And all I said was Tousen wasn't strong for a captain, not for a Shinigami.
Originally Posted by Torran
Panels, please? Are we sure it was Tousen? Are we sure it wasn't Aizen? If it was Tousen, are we sure they weren't Aizen's KS?
Something we've never seen in Tousen's case? He was a 5th seat and beat or killed everybody above him. What he used on Kensei was probably Bankai. This is what happens when Tousen actually aims to kill instead of trying to teach his opponents fear, as Kensei wasn't plot armored. You got it backwards, Gin has never shown to be able to take down a captain with such ease.
He could feel his power, he was helpless, he had more questions than answers, he felt like he was being used like a toy. Still, I wouldn't call it despair. He was in some serious shit, but it was different.
Ichigo doesn't have to be screaming or anything to be in despair. Against Ulquiorra he was fighting for survival, but against Aizen he completely gave up. And don't ignore how Ichigo's performance had dropped due to his fear of Hollowfying again, and how fucked up his resolve was during the entire arc. He was completely lost and had absolutely no idea on what to do, afraid to try anything.
Look up word "ignore" in a dictionary. I looked at every link you sent, and I almost know every panel by heart already.
Your tendency to completely ignore everything that doesn't benefit your argument is infuriating. Sure, go ahead, just ignore the evidence and say you have seen it a thousand times already.
Hey, kiddo, look "throat" up. xD The first link is chest, and the second is head. And aiming for the head is just Shunsui's personality. It served some purpose. Through the whole fight Shunsui was being shown as a person who doesn't care about rules and cares only about winning. And now, as a CC, he shows how much he shits on C46 rules.
And now you are going on the defensive saying that because it doesn't happen in the manga (when in fact it totally does
, and it ends here because I can't come up with more words to link to other pages). You should know you can't apply plot armor when trying to rank people by strength outside of the source.
P.S Quite frankly, I expected Tousen vs Shinji and Ichigo vs Shaz Domino.
Can take a punch with mask? Panels please. Reread the manga. His arm was CRUSHED. He can't take that punch. His hand being regenerated doesn't make him able to take it.
In a direct confrontation it shows how important some abilities like Tousen's or Shinji's are. All it takes is a split second to kill an opponent. Physical power is not the only type of power. But speaking of physical, how is it that Tousen could cut Kenpachi with such a laughable ease, and also chop Grimmjow's arm off with no effort, but Kenpachi can't even mortally wound Tousen with a slash like this? And not only that, Tousen with a mask can take a punch from Komamura's Bankai and with Hollowfication he can stop it with ease. And that is just physical strength; his sound based abilities also increase, making them a hundred times deadlier.
How many times have you sent those to other users? You are boring as hell, damn...
Yes, and being helpless is the same as not being able to do anything else and thus, not being strong enough to do anything else. Just say it, don't paraphrase it to make the impression it's different.
Both Kenpachi and Yamamoto being forced to be stabbed shows how helpless they were in their situation, nowhere does it say they are weak.
And Hinamori could have killed Yamaji while he was asleep like ten thousands times. And he was trying to cut vital spots. But as I wrote before, plot doesn't let people cut each other's throats. Plot is part of a story.
The only fact here is that Tousen didn't actually try due to plot induced idiocy. There were multiple ways he could have killed Kenpachi but instead he slowly approached Kenpachi and cut him everywhere but actual vital spots.
Strength? What strength? He was ability type, that was being trashed while opponent figured out a way how to fight. Couldn't kill Kenpachi, got beaten. Yup, he could, but that WOULDN'T make him strong. He was not like Aizen, who had outrageous strength, with which he could oppose entire G13 AND hax ability. He was decent fighter, pretty strong (For a captain class, not very strong), and had hax ability.
You should read my post instead. Not only was Tousen's ability incredibly dangerous, but his strength was also of use to Aizen. And by strength I mean actual strength. And Tousen willingly followed Aizen because his plan would change Soul Society and was more just than them. No manipulation from that side.
And how old are you? I won't explain what is manipulation and how to manipulate people to an idiot, who doesn't want to understand. Maybe when you grow up, you'll understand.
You don't even see, that Aizen was just using Tousen. Aizen knew what are Tousen's principles. He used it and made Tousen admire him. He made Tousen follow him. Then he killed him like a trash the first second he got beaten.
Aizen didn't move? How do you know he was there in the first place? How do you know he didn't have his sword prepared? And what conditional sentence is it?
Wait, whoa, hold it there. First of all, if Tousen felt obliged to protect Aizen, then why didn't Aizen move or try to block? He didn't even attempt to attack or defend because he was confident in Tousen's strength. And second, Gin was concerned about the others not being killed by Aizen?
"if Tousen felt obliged to protect Aizen, then why didn't Aizen move or try to block? "
You have answer in the very question... Aizen didn't block because he knew Tousen was loyal to him like a dog and wouldn't want him to lift his sword. Tousen was even surprised, that Aizen decided to draw his sword. He wanted to do everything himself.
Yup, he had to. He didn't kill Matsumoto, he cut Hiyori so Aizen couldn't kill her, he didn't fight Ichigo after he was winning, he just wanted to "watch", he didn't want to fight. And participating in this war fighting beside Aizen or ending up wounded with collateral isn't very wise decission.
Gin didn't care about them, he didn't even care about participating, he was just watching them fall like flies one by one because he know he was the only one that could do it. Gin's part was to have no part in the matter, he was literally just tagging along.
Didn't expect you to understand. Tousen felt obliged to protect Aizen, you understood that, right? He was that villain-supporting characters, that goes with you wherever you are. Juha is being attacked? Haschwald cuts Ichigo's bankai OR shouting "YOUR MAJESTY!" Aizen is being attacked? Tousen goes for Shinji's head. Ichigo is fighting? Orihime "Kurosaki-kun" spam.
R.e.r.e.a.d.t.h.e.m.a.n.g.a. PLEASE. Path of justice? He was talking nonsense. Read his little talk with Komamura. Read about his motives while becoming Shinigami.
Tousen never followed Aizen because he could "change the rotten world". He simply followed the path of justice and Aizen's was more just than the Shinigami. Hell, if you compare Aizen to the Shinigami then Aizen is actually the good guy who everybody disagrees with. Just about anything Aizen could have done to Soul Society would be better by default.
Where did I write, that Tousen was weak? He was weaker than Gin IMO, he was weak for a captain IMO. Period. Nothing else.
Because Aizen was not going to show any weakness, and using Kyoka Suigetsu in a direct challenge would come up as cowardly. He also said that he would engage Shinji with his sword, so that makes it even less probable that he was using an illusion there. But anyway, seeing how Shinji can cut Aizen without much difficulty unlike Ichigo, it would have been dangerous for Aizen to take the slash. It becomes obvious that he was confident in Tousen's strength. Even in the end when all the Espada were down, Aizen said "in the end your strength would be below my own. Gin, Tousen, let's go". There's really more evidence towards Tousen being strong and trusted by Aizen than anything claiming otherwise.
Panels, pretty please? Where people are behind him and actually effectively hit him. Ichigo? Couldn't, Kido shield. Shinji did? Where? He cut his arm. Soifon? Not sure if Aizen even was there, he said he countered with sheer reiatsu, don't see why we should believe it. Shunsui could? Don't see a wound anywhere.
Shinji could, Soifon could, Shunsui could (?).
Yup, just ignore Aizen's ability and talk more about trust and all!
You are very wrong in two things. Tousen was afraid of death and would never sacrifice himself. Actually, both Gin and Tousen were afraid of death; they either had something they wanted to see completed (proven) or simply were afraid of leaving forever. And about that strength thing, I already said that Aizen trusted Tousen enough that he would just stand there with a sword swung at his neck.
And Tousen wouldn't mind dying for Aizen. He was so loyal.
You really don't know anything about people, do you? I think I wrote in my last discussion with you, that I study psychology. Aizen always was manipulator. He would say things Tousen would want to hear. Wouldn't be sure about "becoming Soul King". And the only reason Tousen was there is Aizen LET him follow.
You can only call it manipulating when you manipulate facts in such a way. Aizen promised he would become the new Soul King; Tousen found his actions to be more just than the Shinigami, so he joined Aizen. It was Tousen's decision that made him follow Aizen.
Don't call it HIS zanpakuto. It was his beloved friend's zanpakuto. And I always thought those different abilities came from 2 souls in one sword. About Grillo. It's Spanish, thus, Hollow-ish. His bankai was completely different.
And isn't Grillo just the name of his Zanpakutou in Spanish? And that noise ability related to his Zanpakutou? Whether his Zanpakutou was sacrificed or not doesn't mean the essence of his abilities vanished.
Tousen was the only one loyal and pretty strong. Stronger ones wouldn't follow Aizen and betray SS.
Recruiting is besides the point. Aizen had 2 captains, tens or maybe even hundreds of Shinigami and Rukongai citizens under his command, thousands of Hollows, hundreds of Arrancar, 10 exceptional Hollows out of which 4 were Vasto Lorde and one of was a big ape with humongous power. Why Tousen? Why didn't he chose somebody else to trust and have him follow at all times? It's obvious that he had to keep a close watch on Gin, but what about Tousen? Tousen was loyal, so why not pick somebody probably stronger? Or maybe it wasn't about strength, so why not have smart people like Szayel helping him? It seems that Tousen was more valuable to Aizen than anybody else, and stremgth seems to be the bigger option.
Show me panels, where he can take Kenpachi and Hisagi/Komamura with low difficulty. And remind me, how did he die...?
It's all justified anyway, because as shown during his fight with Kenpachi, argument with Grimmjow, TBtP and fake Karakura battle, Tousen can take on a captain with low difficulty.
And every captain would be even more worried.
Ichigo could have been 10x stronger or 100x stronger than a captain, but it wouldn't matter because Gin's Bankai was absurdly fast to the point that Ichigo was more worried about the direction of the sword rather than Gin.
1. Used, manipulated, have it your way.
1- Not manipulated
2- No actual reason to believe he was the weakest link
3- Aizen liked provoking people.
2. Judging by his feats, I believe he was weaker than Gin, who was prodigy, and could "kill" Butterflaizen. (yup, with ability, just like Tousen's strength lies in ability).
3. Provoking to manipulate. He wanted to cause certain reaction.