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Page 10 onwards.
No idea. I'll have to think about that, the next time I'm visiting such a country.Quote:
I wen to Turkey, once. Hated it.Quote:
Imam Tabari is a great commentator of the QUran so is Imam Ibn Kathir but their historical books are not as authentic as that of Bukhari and Muslim,
the reason for disregarding is because Islamic source mandates that if you hear sth from a fasiq you should verify it
i dont have Al Bidaya, i managed to collect An nihaya only. So i wont be able to verify the exact quote from Ibn kathir's Al Bidaya, second off we barely have the books from Imam Tabari to verify it. And the most important Imam tabari s book has many fabricated hadith, until we have muhaddith classifying what is authentic in that account we cant say whether its true or not.
Now i dont know any muhaddith saying that this particular narration is true in Imam tabaris book nether did i hear them categorizing it as false either
but if you study the Usul al Hadith (science of hadith) there are 5 categories from which you can say whether or not a hadith is sahi or not
in ny relatively small knowledge of hadith study i think this particular one falls to be daweef if we check it in accordance with the 5 category , atleast
the first 3 catagory requires the knowledge of the chain of narrators as its unavailable to us here so i wont be able to comment on those
the last catagory is too high level for me to judge any hadith by, only a scholar who is EXTREMELY well versed in hadith can do that , and we dont have some one of that caliber alive after the demise of shaikh al albany rahimuAllah in 1999. In catagory 4 its showing out to be a daweef, not ie Daweeef Jiddan but atleast daweef
So we cant conclusively say what really was the case. Rather we should say we cant ascertain.
Last edited by shaheer; September 06, 2012 at 12:52 PM.
One thing I don't get though is honor killing. If I recall, I mentioned that here and someone told me it's not a part of the Muslim religion or tradition. So, does anyone know where the idea came from or how it started? Is it just an excuse for the murderers since it sounds better than "I just lost my temper and killed her because the harlot refuses to listen to me!" Cuz in my opinion, it just sounds like a shitty excuse for temper loss or need to be in control/dominant.
FYI: I'm an atheist, so my view on religions is negative by default.
hmm i said its not in Islam,Quote:
this mentality creeped in from the cultures Islam spread, a lot of people used to bury their children if it was a she.not to mention there are essence of honor killing in the Biblical scripts hence many converts brought some of the other concept in too
While I agree that apparently Islam is the religion which still stick to its origin, but in fact, the understanding of Islam itself is very polarized. There are many school of thoughts that are contradicting with each other on particular matters.
Last edited by Doraku; September 07, 2012 at 10:11 AM.
As for different schools of thought, yes there are many, but the pillars are all agreed upon : Praying, Fasting, Hajj, Zakat etc
4 out of 5 pillars? didn't remember the last one or are there more minor ones the existance of which I don't remember from religion class?
True there are multiple interpretation on particular matters in islam but the tennets are the same.
The largest section of people claiming to be Muslim is the Ahle sunnah wal jamah(sunni) which i belong to is roughly 82% of all the muslim mass. We do have basically certain degree of internal difference in interpretation which gives rise to different school of thought but it only exist on the fine issues of rulings which are vague in the hadith or Quranic verse. Like saying Basmallah before the surah fatiha(first chap in Quran) in prayer.
3 of the 4 popular school of thought believes that its not necessary one believes it is.
but no school believes that you cant pray 5 times a day that is not there.
The difference within the sunni mass is regarding the concoction of meaning from the vague verse of Quran or hadith which can be interpreted in many ways, thus there are no conflict when the differences of opinion arises in those interpretation.
the conflicts occurs with the different umbrellas in muslims like the sunni and shitte. There are some striking ideological differences between the groups.
Last edited by shaheer; September 08, 2012 at 11:55 AM.
How do you guys feel about honor killing? I'm asking for your thoughts on the subject, how you feel about it personally.
The idea isn't restricted to just Islam though, as I have read Sikhs or Punjabis do the same as well. I mean, why participate in the activity now when times are different?
I'm disgusted by the fact that such tradition is still exist on earth. Like in my previous post, I still believe that such tradition is more like a sociological thing rather than a religious one. In a place where the society is so isolated from the modern world, it's not really that strange to find that some of people still do such inhumane action.
So, I want to ask to Muslim people, do you agree with the application of traditional Islamic penal code in the modern society? like the one stated in Koran
Well truth be said the pioneer of the madhabs(school of though) were students of one another, their fatwas or religious verdict/opinion are similar in many instances. The major clashes in Sunni school are not issues regarding heretical practices. as for some one disregarding the 5 daily prayers that is not a sunni practice nor a non conservative practice, if you want to claim you are a muslim praying is one thing that you must establish, even if you are non conservative by your claim it is an incumbent practice.Quote:
i dont think such people can boldly claim that they are following the sunni practice in the first place to say that they are sunni muslims.
Now as for the sharia or legal rulings of the Quran, yes i am a Muslim its my belief that any practice sanctioned by the Quran or the authentic sunna must be obeyed by the Muslims or Muslim states.
now that is not to say that you find a street urchin pickpocketing you will have to cut his hand no, every ruling of the sharia is not just as it is
to give you an example during the time of the second caliph this particular ruling was not put to practice because there was a famine so people couldn't get food.
The Islamic system of penalty is not a stand alone system, you have to apply all the other practice into place before you go to penalty like you have to make the rich pay zakah you have to have a baytul Maal you have to have the thief stealing a big amount and not something petty and the prosecutor must take it to the court. if the one who stole some thing settled it with some one who he/she stole from the huduud doesn't apply.
i remember that during the time of a caliph called Umar bin Abdul Aziz the people payed zakah so much that there went poor people to give zakah from. now in that situation if a guy steal for the sake of stealing and not to meet is basic needs and that stealing is not like some one came and pick pocketed you its like some one came and stole your safe ie a large sum then yes. The law will be applied
The Sharia goes hand in hand with other practices
As shaheer explained it very well... Personally, the golden age of Islam is the era of the Four Righteous Caliph (and I can add Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz to that since he was considered as the Fifth Righteous Caliph)
Because in my opinion, only Abu Bakr, Umar Ibn Al Khattab, Uthman Ibn Afan and Ali Ibn Abi Talib and finally Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz grasped the essence of Islam