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Goku is much, much faster than Superman battlespeed wise. Traveling speed is diff from battle speed. How do u think slow characters like Grundy, Doomsday can trade blows with Supes?
Besides Superman is not FTL within earth's atmosphere. Z fighters can boost their speed in battle many times over using ki bursts.
Last edited by PiccoloJr; November 13, 2008 at 03:21 AM.
Cause Grundy, Doomsday and all those guys can move at in insane physical speed as well.
Superman could easily catch Goku and fly him into space.
King Kai can easily trace the speed of Goku's spaceship which got to Namek in 6 days which is moving at least 300 times the speed of light and can tell exactly where he is but can't keep up with the speed of Goku's fight with Freiza.
Also here Vegeta can keep up with the speed of Freiza's ship to earth which is moving FTL and tell exactly where its gonna land and Yamcha cant keep up with that speed yet. Here at 3:30
Here Krillin who is obviously much stronger than King Kai at this point and can keep up with faster speeds than King Kai but cant keep up with the speed of Goku N Cell's battle to the point that they vanished from his sight. Here at 2:40
Here just another feat of speed. Blocked N Dodged like nothing at 8:55
Since when can Grundy N Doomsday can fight at FTL speeds? I'll give him above human speed but below sound speed.
It's the same with FTL speed travelers in Marvel. Thor gets beating from slow characters like Hulk N Juggernaut. Surfer gets punches from Hulk, Namor, Rhino, spiderman. I think I even remember Nova getting bested by spiderman too b4.
So their traveling speed is WAY below their battlespeed.
Last edited by PiccoloJr; November 13, 2008 at 05:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Haha...rape for Superman, he can move at FTL at best Goku moves at...what? 0.1% of lightspeed? Cause guys Gotenks took a minute to move around the planet earth 9 times.
And when Goku starts to play ping pong with planets then we can talk.
I also hear something about how Cell actually could bust a Solar System, if we had some feats of him doing anything near that level then we can talk. As of now it's BS hyperbole.
And then they'res something weird like Goku has to move "300x" faster then someone to be unseen.
@Above: Anime feats don't count at all because it's anime.
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; November 13, 2008 at 11:40 PM.
Let me know when Superman starts blocking/dodging attacks from slow fighters like Doomsday, Gog, Shaggyman, Grundy like nothing. Sorry Supes combat speed is very slow compared to his travel speed. In earth's atmosphere he's even below lightspeed.
Also let me know when Superman can shake the earth and nearly destroying the earth just by increasing his strength alone like SSJ3 Goku did. And Goku's energy reaches other dimensions, Supreme Kais planet.
DBZ travel speed is slow compared to superman's but their battlespeed is leagues N leagues above superman's coz they burst their ki. Goku will just toy around Superman's combat speed like it's nothing to be concerned with. Here's how it works.
Z fighters can detect the power of their enemies, they can tell if a blast can destroy a planet. The Z fighters would have known if Cell was bluffing.
Didn't those anime episodes happened in Manga too? I'll double check. It proves their speed in battle which is many, many times FTL
Last edited by PiccoloJr; November 14, 2008 at 04:14 AM.
Movement speed is normal movement or in other words how fast a person goes.
SS3 Goku shook the planet, because he uses Ki and in the DB world everything runs on Ki.Quote:
And honestly that doesn't really matter because shaking a planet in no way is as impressive punching a planet through space. And his power was sensed by the Supreme Kai that's not exactly impressive since a lot of people can do it. S
You've yet to show me anything that puts him on punching planets.
Again having your Ki sensed or shaking a planet is not a feat thats saving himself from getting killed.
Movement Speed= Battle SpeedQuote:
Reaction Speed=/= Movement Speed
And we all know how Superman holds back on everyone and their mother.
Not sure what this has anything to do with anything, because none of that is hurting Superman.Quote:
Until Cell does something on the level of destroying galaxies or before someone else destroys the galaxy and then we powescale then it's nothing but hyperbole.Quote:
And Busting a Planet=/= Busting a Galaxy.
Didn't Kai just sense where Goku was?Quote:
I've also got to wonder, first how big is the DBZ verse? And second why shouldn't a spaceship that has it's target not slow down?
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; November 14, 2008 at 07:44 PM.
So what's gonna happen is Goku's gonna land a lot of punches and Superman will try to connect but Goku will dodge it and Goku will try to connect a few more N block/dodge superman again over and over
So what if he uses ki, everybody in DBZ uses ki and not all of them shake the planet. In comics they use cosmic energy to increase their strength, they don't shake a planet just a side effect of them increasing their strength, so whats ur point? And Superman uses solar energy, right? It's more comparable to Hulk who is destroying eastern seabourg just by mere footsteps.
These guys can raise pyramids just with their minds even b4 the saiyans arrived and they got many times stronger from there. And their physical strength is stronger. They just control their ki to their target, no point in destroying everything else around them. Remember when Piccolo lost control of his ki while levitating a pyramid. It shattered the pyramid and caused a massive earthquake. He was so pissed of losing control.
Goku's energy stretches to other dimensions to be sensed that far, even Gohan felt it. just like the z figters didn't sense Vegeta's energy til he was nearby earth coz his energy is not strong enough to stretch that far. Perfect Cell's energy reaches Namek.
Maybe I'll give him credit on speed of attacking. Superman is below FTL speed within earth's atmosphere so he can dodge Supes attack and if goku moves too fast for him to see, he's in big trouble. Im pretty sure Goku's attacks will land tho since he has trouble dodging/ blocking slow characters. Goku hold's back too against weak characters.
The scan mentioned how he amplifies his speed many times over. Same concept as Kaioken X4, X20 and increases as they get stronger.
The Z fighters would know if he was bluffing.Vegeta can destroy a planet at 20000 PL, Freiza destroyed planet Vegeta 10X gravity of earth. at PL 500,000. Cell's PL is around hundreds of millions. And the writer won't mention it if he didnt intend for Cell to have that power. TOAA is omnipotent he has no feats. DBZ is more of story logic and common sense.
King Kai can sense and TRACE Goku who is moving at least 300X lightspeed with the spaceship. It's the same as when they sense them in a fight, weaker guys can't trace them, stronger one's can. That's why Vegeta can sense and trace Freiza's spaceship coz he's on a higher PL and Yamcha can only sense Freiza but cannot trace the movement of his ship. So if Kai can sense and trace Goku's ship and can't follow Goku's fight with Freiza then they are definitely moving faster than the ship, in short distances anyway.
Superman Prime is very strong though, the one that takes a big bang to the face IMO only Vegitto or the Non-Canon SSJ4 can hurt him.
Last edited by PiccoloJr; November 14, 2008 at 09:17 PM.
He shakes the planet and then gets punched by Superman, he stays down. Shaking the planet is all well and good but it's not a durability feat, speed feat, strength feat etc.Quote:
Remember when Goku had trouble with 40 tons and had to go Super Saiyan to lift it? The difference in pure strength isn't even fair. Don't even bring up strength when it comes to Superman.Quote:
What is it with Supes, 40 billion tons? If I remember correctly.
Hell Goku in SSJ 4 had trouble lifting a building.
Yeah but King Kai can sense people really far away, AKA Goku, sensing people in DB really far away isn't anything special.Quote:
And he'll hold back against Goku too. Because if he went full out he'd massacre Goku.Quote:
And Supe's speed in earth is 99% Light Speed.
But will that put him at Supes level...?Quote:
Freiza started a chain reaction that blew up the planet. Thats not busting a planet.Quote:
Where was it stated that Cell's PL was in the Hundreds of Millions?
Naruto's writer stated that Kyuubi could destroy Mountains.
And until it's shown that someone has near Galaxy busting powers it's hyperbole. Because Hyping an enemy is a pretty normal thing for all Villains.
My question is this how big is the DBZ verse, where does the 300x lightspeed number come from?Quote:
And what do long distance tire the DBZ characters for some reason? They should be able to stay at the same speed no matter what.
Next King Kai can sense where Goku is but can he see how quickly Goku is going? Theirs a big difference between seeing and sensing.
And then theirs the fact that Supes can't run out of energy. Goku can on the other hand...
Hunter/Prey #3: weathers ground zero of the supposed "million nukes" blast on Calaton.
This is far more powerful then a lot of things that Goku has. Goku is too slow to even hit Supes, but if he did Superman wouldn't notice.
Superman #181: Takes a punch from the magically created Bizarro creature which slams him clear through the Earth, in the ground through Metropolis, through the curst mantle and core and out through China. No injury or loss of consciousness. Smiles afterwards.
And I just checked the page with King Kai, their wasn't even sensing in their, all Kai did was talk to him in his mind. They were communicating thats all, nothing else. No sensing was in their.
NO, Prime was retardly powerful.Quote:
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; November 15, 2008 at 02:06 PM.
You don't get it. That's only their traveling speed, they can boost their speed in battle many, many times over by ki bursts and if u add the kaioken superman would be scratching his head "where the hell is he"
Shaking the planet as a side effect of increasing your strength is definitely a strength feat.
Well you don't know the gravity of the planet where they are. King kai's planet is 10X gravity of earth. It could be 400 tons or more. Goku in the beginning of DBZ can carry a redwood tree all the way home, those trees are at least 100 tons, heaviest one is over a thousand tons. And pyramid weighs 6000 tons and those feats are way b4 he turned super saiyan.
You can't really say he was struggling coz he's yelling. Goku looked like he struggled with the bus too while the avalanche was falling on top of it, then he left piccolo holding the bus with 1 hand while firing a ki blast. Goku seemed to struggle to pick up Pikkon's turban, then later he didnt just pick it up easily, he tossed it too. The only clear part that they struggled was pulling the Z sword that's about it.
Can u come up with a scan that shows he is clearly fighting at lightspeed within the earth's atmosphere. He has too much trouble against slow characters, one even managed to kill him It's Supe that has to find a way to keep up with Goku's speed in combat.
Freiza used a mere ki blast to destroy Namek, he just didnt want to destroy the planet right away, its a contingent just in case he can't beat Goku. Coz Goku can't survive outer space. freiza wasnt even in full power, only 50%. Freiza easily destroyed planet Vegeta, which is 10X gravity of earth on his weakest form, PL 500,000
Daizenshuuex stated Cell's PL which was considered canon by Toriyama at one point.
If this is anime Goku, it will be no contest at all, they showed Buu destroyed a galaxy and SSJ3=Kid Buu, at the end of DBZ after 10 years Base Form Goku is as strong as Uub, final form of Buu.
We assume its as big as real world unless proven otherwise just like how we assume in comics. Goku's spaceship got to namek in 6 days, it takes like 5 years/1825 years for light to get to the closest star. So the ship is at least moving 304 times the speed of light. I was being generous actually Namek could have been at the next solar system since Goku passed by a solar system b4 namek.
That's how their ki bursts work in short distances, in DBZ it's from ground to sky, in GT its from continent to continent and from ground to space.
Dude that's how they see them even in fights. they sense and trace them to see them, piccolo explained that to Gohan. They don't just use their eyes but their entire body.
King Kai sense and trace them to see them, that's the same thing he did to the Ginyu force on its way to Namek, And Freiza when Goku mentioned about him in Namek. Same with the Saiyans, he was able to identify Nappa N Vegeta in the spaceship and exactly when are they gonna land on earth.
They control and aim their ki to avoid damage in their surroundings, Piccolo was levitating the pyramid and wasnt doing any damage to its surroundings. When he lost control he pretty much split the entire island.
He had to sense and trace Goku first and King Kai admitted that he was having a hard time tracking him coz his spaceship was moving too fast. And King Kai can't follow Goku's movements with his fight with Freiza, what does that tell u?
Supe Prime is more of a challenge in strength anyway not speed. Maybe end of DBZ goku might take him down, but Vegitto or SSJ4 has a better chance IMO.
Last edited by PiccoloJr; November 15, 2008 at 09:18 PM.
1. Doomsday and anyone that fights in Supermans leauge and trades blows has insanely fast reaction and combat speed...thats why they can fight with him in the first place.
2. Superman is about infinity times more invulnerable than Goku...I don't see how Goku could really even damage him with his lack of power. Goku can't even survive unaided in space.
3. Superman Prime would not be damaged by anyone from the DBZ universe...period. Neither would Superboy-Prime or probably even regular cannon DC supes.
4. Buu didn't destroy the a galaxy in one blast...he travelled from planet to planet crushing all.
5. Name one Instance where anyone in DBZ moves at lightspeed physically. If Supes was in the DBZ universe where movement didnt affect his physical surroundings drastically he would move at an insane speed all the time. But because if he even used fractions of his real power he would cause disaster everywhere.
6. There are about a billion instances of Supermans power being absolutely insane...
7. I used to think Goku would win...then I started reading comics. Now I understand.
1. Superman and anybody that fights at Doomsday's league and trades blows has slow reactions and combat speed. That's why they have a hard time. Fixed.
2. That's speculation N exaggeration, Infinity? If ur talking about Post Crisis then he goes down. Goku can hold his breath for a good long time in space.
3. Maybe Vegitto or End Goku can take Prime, In anime they have a universe Buster, it's Mystic Super Buu, and Super Vegitto is much stronger than him.
4. In manga Buu was stated that he destroyed many planets, but in anime they showed him one shot a galaxy.
5. Here follow this link. 96th post http://lounge.moviecodec.com/topics/56922p5.html And Superman's speed will be the same in DBZ. Superman can't manipulate his powers like DBZ can easily manipulate their ki, Trunks can drop his PL to 5 and increase it to 40 Million at will. So superman can't pull his attacks as much as DBZ can.
6. Same with Goku. But not billions, superman doesnt even have that much comics. One of the reasons why superman looks like he's stronger is coz he fights in outer space.
7. I used to think Goku would win, then I learn more about Supes, I had doubts, then I learned more about Goku, I realized Goku would win all along
Last edited by PiccoloJr; November 19, 2008 at 05:56 PM. Reason: missed a few points
Who is the genius that reopened this thread? This is just going to end in a flame war.
Superman vs Goku...tough call.
Batman+Superman vs Goku= The Wolrd's Finest of course!
Batman would make a machine that would transform Goku into an ape. As an ape, though stronger, he would have no sense of strategy. That's when they would make him fall into a giant hole, previously prepared by Batman just in case some giant monster ever tried to attack them, and then Flash would trap Goku in the Speed Force. The end.