This is the last I'll post in this thread because I think I'm out of things to add. Superman is not really my favorite superhero. He's got way too many powers if you ask me. Which just happens to be the same reason I didn't like latter seasons of DBZ and why I despised GT.
For the sake of this debate I'll assume both Superman and Goku are at the fullest level of power they can be at. That makes it what, ssj 3 or 4 for Goku and Superman is in the presence of a yellow sun.
In terms of speed I think Superman has the advantage. At the height of his power he is able to travel 4 times light speed. Goku, on the other hand, is limited in terms of speed to well within "legal" speeds (as in not breaking any laws of physics, which Superman would have to to travel at such speeds). While Goku does have Instant Transmission that doesn't necessarily translate into super speeds - the technique requires a lot of time and concentration for Goku, something he wouldn't have during a fight with the man of steel.
When it comes to martial arts, Goku is the clear winner. He has had plenty of training while Superman (who may have had some training) has mainly relied on his super strength, speed, and other powers.
In terms of strength Superman is once again the victor. He has been able to move planets while Goku is "limited" (if you can call lifting a bus "limited") to weight much less than that of a sizable planet. Actually, I'm calling this one a tie. I suppose with an intense burst of energy Goku would conceivably be able to move a planet.
When it comes to raw power the winner is Goku. the amount of raw energy he is able to store is incredibly impressive, whereas Superman mainly relies on the sun for his power.
The most durable of the two heroes is definitely Superman. For an easy method of comparison, I just compared the number of times each character died in continuity. Superman-1. Goku-2 or 3.
It is my opinion that Superman would be the clear victor in a battle royale between the two titans. Superman outclasses Goku in speed and durability, the two factors I think would be the most important in this battle. This fight wouldn't be so much of a fight as it would be a collision - martial arts and techniques would quickly be set aside for epic charges and and massive blasts of energy.
The major problem in trying to compare the two was the different styles of comics they appeared in and the way the two attained their powers. Goku gained his incredible strength through intense training and a bit of luck. Superman's powers were his birthright. Villains in Dragonball use martial arts and massive ki balls to terrorize the universe while Superman's foes usually just use brute strength or advanced technology to accomplish their goals.
Well, that's my two cents on the topic. I can honestly say I can think of nothing else to add.
Goku has been hit multiple times by characters that don't move anywhere close to Superman's speed, so there's no reason to believe that he would be able to effectively avoid or counter Supes' attacks.
I say what I mean and mean what I say.
In the first part of this same post, I explain how Superman's superior speed would help in this fight.
hm... if we ever want this thing to be settled we'll need to set a specific playing field and conditions.
lets have both characters in their best, like goku in SS4 after eating a few of them beans...same goes for superman..well he doesn't really get much "upgrades"....
stage: a planet like planet nemic...that way we have all sorts of terrain.
rules: strictly one on one, no buggers on the side. no items (like dragon balls...or red kryptonite)
you didn't bother reading everything didn't you? i was talking to someone else when i said that, and i've made it quite clear that I GREW UP ON BOTH HEROES. the fact that i chose to stay neutral and not post anything as a form of rebuttal against pro-superman posts.
perhaps it's because you don't really know how i talk (i try to be funny at times and fail miserably), but please read all the other posts before making a quick judgement.
i know how to settle out little hero problem....let them duke it out....ina 10 round rock-paper-scissor match! lets see who lady luck will smile upon.
Last edited by Paper; July 04, 2007 at 08:44 AM.
Ok, i'm going to start again because it is getting no where. Bear in mind this is post-crisis superman which ibelieve were talking about.
You fail to mention that supermans martial arts training is only brief. Whereas Goku has trained all his life. There is a big difference there. So you nor anyone else can say Goku's martial arts is inferior to supermans. Not only that Superman doesn't apply them to fights, he uses direct brute force. (Partially taken from another forum)Quote:
You brought this on your self, the Respect Therad says he moves around 5x the speed of light.
Ok, now for the goodies:
Speed of light: 299 792 458 m / s
Goku in Namek = 300,000,000m/s, faster than (stated by Burter).
50x Base Form Goku = 15.000.000.000m/s (this is already faster than Supes at his best).
Do you want me to go on onto SSJ3 or is this enough to PROOVE Goku is faster?
The above two are taken from another forum about Goku been equal to and faster than the speed of light.
There was going to be more but my heads pounding...i'll post more later (after some research and you tell me which supermans been used)
A) They were completely arbitrary, and really only served to make people's scouters blow up.
B) No seriously, they were completely idiotic. No wonder Toriyama decided to do away with them the fastest he could.
Power levels don't show anything. Goku just doesn't have any solid feats to back up his faster than light claim. All that is shown in your post is numbers, absolutely arbitrary numbers, that do not prove anything.
Are the stat increases garnered from rises in power level linear? Exponential? Quadratic? We don't know! So even trying to use power levels as any form of argument is a waste of time. Akira Toriyama himself must've found that out after realizing he'd have to start making more and more ridiculous figures just to top old figures.
The only solid speed feat Goku really has, of moving long distances under his own power, without teleporting is traversing Snake way.
Snake Way is 1,000,000 km, or about 621,370 miles. Now he covered this distance in less than a day. Alright, so let's just say, for simplicity's sake, that he took 3 hours. A big jump from the almost 200 days he took to go to King Kai's planet the first time no?
That comes out to about...207,123 and 2/3 miles per hour. 3600 seconds in an hour, so now he was going at about 57.5 miles per second.
Pretty fast, pretty fast.
Still, he comes nowhere close to the 186,000 miles per second needed to reach lightspeed.
And is absolutely nowhere close to the minimum 4x lightspeed that Superman has reached.
It seems Burtur suffers from a case of speech hyperbole...
Considering when Goku first rushed in to rescue Gohan and Krillin from Racoom, Jeice, and Burtur, they could actually see him coming. Well, except for Racoom, who was looking the other way.
Now, we can safely assume Goku got there as fast he could, considering his son and one of his best friends were on the verge of dying. According to the calculations the other poster from another forum put up, Goku's top speed should've been around 708,430 kilometers per second, or about 440,197 miles per second. However, Goku took about 3 seconds just to get from where Burter and Jeice were to the point where he was spinning Racoom around like a top.
That's hardly even a mile, let alone the 1,300,000 miles Goku could've traversed according to the other poster from another forum.
Case in point: His theory is crap.
3:49 - Goku passes Burter and Jeice
3:52 - Goku passes Racoom
Hell, he was actually moving faster on snake way.
Of course, you could say that Goku wasn't trying to get there as quickly as possible. Of course, then you'd just be calling Goku a total dick.
Last edited by KnightLancer; July 04, 2007 at 09:51 PM.
DBZ characters FIGHT at lightspeed. As you can see that they dodge ki blasts (which are LIGHT) and they disapear and reappear at will! Beings who can sense lightyears and dimensions away can't even follow their movements. Not too mention Toriyama ALREADY said that DBZ moves at lightspeed.Quote:
Nope, your post is wrong. Superman NEVER displays any martial arts against his opponents. he just throws punches and hits people with cars.Quote:
Goku beats Supes @#$ in NORMAL MODE (at the end of DBZ)! Curbstomp...
Been told to send you to another website in which i'm watching on the superman vs goku topic: http://www.moviecodec.com/topics/172...html#msg992815
You don't need to register to post so if you want you could post there. It seems to have quite few people posting in it as well. And like yourself a good superman debater.
p.s. i haven't researched yet for another reply will do soon
I registered and I am waiting my E-mail activation.
Tell you the truth a member is there that I already had smashed in th Naruto forums concerning this.
You don't have to register to post, just simply goto last page and fill in a name and the security code and type your message in at the bottom then click send.
He could fly in linearly, attack, fly out, fly in linearly, attack, etc...
If you suggested to me that DBZ characters could meet and exceed the speed of sound, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. Suggesting that they could exceed light speed, however, is ridiculous......
Like I said before, at what point have we ever been led to believe that any DBZ character could move light speed?
If anyone in DBZ could move at the speed of light, why would it take so long for them to fly around Namek? Why did it take them so long to chase down the Androids? Why did chibi Trunks not reach his destination instantly when SSJ3 Goku distracted Majin Buu? Why have they struggled to reach their destinations in the series time and time again?
Also, as I clearly explained above in this very post, Toriyama saying that they move light speed is very inconsistent with the events in his own manga.
Also, I know submission grappling and kickboxing, but if I get into a fight with someone considerably weaker and slower than me, am I going to bother to get fancy?
I'm just going to hit him. Hard.
Same principle with Superman.
Originally Posted by Ronson in the other Forum
All the scans I posted were from post-crisis comic books.
And, I even said, we were using current comic book Superman.
And current is POST-CRISIS.
The issue with a lot of DBZ "speed feats" is that barely any of them have any sort of concrete time frame, or at least one where the approximate amount of time could be determined. The only real one is when he crossed Snake Way.
Power level speed calculations are more or less pulled from people's asses, since none of us know how power levels directly influence a characters stats.
Case in point, if Goku's power level is 2x higher, does it make him 2x stronger/faster? 4x? 8x? We sure as hell don't know.
You can't create a formula to determine Goku's top-speed if we don't even know how his power level affects his stats.
And before you say "But KnightLancer, you're retarded because you did the same thing!"
I used the other guy's formula to show the inherent flaw in his argument. No more. No less.
Superman however, has at least several timed speed feats, as well as one in which the general time frame could be determined from things we already know, like bullets or light.
We NEVER said that. I even openly admitted that Goku was better at martial arts than Superman.Originally Posted by Ronson on the Other Forum
Haterade never said it either, he was just pointing out that Superman DOES have martial arts training, to counter the notion that Superman is completely untrained in formal ways of fighting.Originally Posted by KnightLancer
Besides, in the scans I posted previously, Superman lives through the heat and intensity of the BIG BANG.
The god-damn BIG BANG, which created the universe.
His durability is leagues beyond anything Goku can throw at him.
Hey Look Numbers, and they seem pretty damn accurate to me...<-It's a link.Originally Posted by Some Other guy From the Other Forum
Last edited by KnightLancer; July 05, 2007 at 09:51 AM.