People have been going about the hyped and failed Espada, but Espada simply did know nothing about Shinigami.
Quincy truly know about who has Bankai and I bet they know who has what type of Bankai as well, in that daten they received, so, I'm assuming they were scattered across Seireitei according to a plan.
And his game abilities belong to his Zanpakuto, so it's a part of his strength. It's not cheating, although for the opponent it may seem as if it's unfair to battle through those games.
I believe Kyouraku's hype is a well-earned one, not to mention him being one of the first two academy graduates, a pupil of Captain-Commander for a millennium and someone who was praised by Captain-Commander himself to possess an unrivaled finesse in skills, alongside Ukitake.
It'd be a real letdown from me if we aren't shown Kyouraku and Ukitake's Bankais in this arc at some point.
---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------
It's a technique you use when you are so cornered that the sole chance to step aside is this. Kind of a trump card for a Shunpo user.
So, she was cornered by Byakuya actually.
But Byakuya himself is a very skilled Shunpo user, in fact, to the point that he himself can use that Molting Cicada technique.
As rusty as Yoruichi might be, we shouldn't take her words that seriously, I think.
How rusty someone nicknamed Goddess of Flash can get?
Ichigo stood in the stead of the fans & asked Shunsui in the last week's chapter of bleach "why'd they wait until soul society was in shambles" before they
Soifon is an emotional character who makes her emotions very apparent. I.e at the funeral of Yama (a father figure to her),
she behaved unprofessional & rudely by letting her emotions overwhelm her.
Soifon's character in the resent chapter fit the role similar to that of a scapegoat perfectly to ask the Zero Squad directly without hesitation why they sit
"idly by" during the massacre of SS.
Soifon is also a character who wouldn't permit any form of injustice hence she was the perfect shapegoat for Kubo to use to finally confirm to the fans WHY,
WHY & WHY they don't interfere even in the destruction.
The answer was then confirmed by the Zero Squad's monk (who I assume is the leader) that they are specifically following orders "by the will of the soul King
" (btw this was before Soifon's outrage).
The answers to Soifon's question (rather outrage) was revealed before she even asked it, signifying just how, she as a captain is still very immature by letting her emotions of her take control.
The Zero Squad (who obviously weren't there to waste time) ignored her & went on with business.
Soifon who is obviously on her period then yells again at the Zero Squad.
kuwabara finally got tired of her shenanigans & shut her up by setting her striaght by saying
"The imperial special forces's job is to protect the spirit palace & the gotei 13's job is to protect the soul society...
As someone who bears the name of gotei..Don't go crying to us bout how help didn't come just becaz you couldn't do shit.
It's already bad enough you're a disgrace to that title!"
So you saying "It was displayed to show Soifon's maturity lvl as a captain & more importantly, it was used confirm to the fans (finally) why the zero squads sit back & watched when SS gets trashed." is not the reason is OBVIOUSLY INCCORECT because that was the reason.
He had the fastest sonido. His speed followed by Byakuya.
He never even caught Byakuya once until Zommori used Byakuya's comrades as pawns. He was completely outmatched by Byakuya.
Also the use of afterimages in this manga does not connote who is the fastest in Bleach.
IIRC Stark never used any yet he's much faster than Zommori
Isshin is all about combat. He himself said his Zanpakuto is similar to Ichigo's Zan & to prove his worth, he fought equally with Aizen (in fact it seems he was winning).
I'm sure Ichigo (as of resent) is faster than Soifon without bankai. He matched Byakuya in SS arc & he's much better now.
Juha Bach will oneshot 5 Soifons Aizen style with speed lol. I can't believe you just questioned that one.
He has Hirenkyaku which was said to be superior to shunpo. He blitz Yama with it too.
I'm certain Ryuken is also much fast. Quincies are fast. Isshida has vollstandig.
Yoruichi was rusty, nuff said.
Yama also praised Shunsui for taking Nanao to a save distance in a single leap (Shunsui demonstated a very high speed shunpo
Stark is faster than Shunsui
I can prove she was telling the truth.
What you said about Gin also similarly applies to Aizen.
You are correct that Tousen just played along.
The plan was completed. There was no longer a reason to fight. Aizen knew his escape was guaranteed.
---------- Post added at 02:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 AM ----------
And this pages shows how much Byakuya really cared about her statement (he cared not) http://www.mangapanda.com/94-573-5/b...apter-119.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-573-6/b...apter-119.html
I read your whole post, and if you don't mind, I'd try adding my own opinion by using yours as a base to counter.
Nothing related to such comparison was included, as far as I know. So, isn't it just speculation that Starkk is faster than Zommari?
I'd love to take a look at your reference for this, if you have (=
It's just my feeling, though. I'd say they looked pretty evenly matched in the initial stages of the battle when they first clashed swords.
Bach showed his speed, I do agree.
Haschwald? No. Because a character is top tier doesn't automatically mean he's faster than Soifon.
I'm not questioning Haschwald's power level. He proved his capabilities by breaking Ichigo's bankai, but still, I can't see how that does ever make him fast or at the very least faster than Soifon?
So, I tend to think that Aizen who began fusing with Hogyoku is superior to Aizen at Sogyoku, so, I wouldn't compare this two scenes, to be honest.
Hmm, isn't the escape tech one of her invented technique???? Using it is considered irrelevant in s speed fight?? How ridiculous.Originally Posted by Kay3795;3173764
She used an escape tech to escape Byakuya. She never outmanoeuvred. In fact these pages calls her out on her bluff inregards to the chase [url
I haven't response to your point of the carrying Ichigo and his Zan is not relevant. Bleach is a manga, but it doesn't mean that it defies basic law of physics. When you drop something in bleach, gravity will pulls it down like everything else. The more heavy you are, the harder it is for you to defies gravity. Does it ever occur to you that big chars like Yammi, Omaeda, Kommamura are not that fast compared to small char?? A zanpaktou, no matter how big it is can be wield easily by the Owner (Except for bankais) because it is a part of his/her soul. However, when being carried by someone else, that's a difference story. Bleach uses reiatsu to fight, true. But carrying someone on your back while running has nothing to do with reiatsu battles, it's just plain strength. Having something heavy attached to you diminished your speed, this can also be justified by this page: http://www.mangapanda.com/94-7110-19...apter-360.html, http://www.mangapanda.com/94-7110-20...apter-360.html. That's pretty much sums it up, Soi fon > Yoruichi+Ichigo & zangetsu > Byakuya.
The pages you've shown about no one could defeat Byakuya at that time was pretty much irrelevant to. First, it doesn't say anything about speed comparison, Yoruichi has no zanpaktou, but Byakuya has a bankai, so obviously it would have been very hard for her to fight him while still protecting Ichigo and the others. But that doesn't say that she is slower than him. In addition, she has no ground to say that no one could defeat Byakuya because she haven't seen him in 100 years, her knowledge about his power is outdated.
Furthurmore, Byakuya is a proud guy, when he realize that he can't chase Yoruichi, will he say to Ukitake that: "I can't catch her"? Lol the phrase: "I lost my interest" was just to hide his shame for not being able to catch up with her despite 100 years of training.
Last edited by River_Capulet; November 24, 2012 at 11:21 PM.
And then you are saying that Starrk is much faster, even though the only true example of speed was when he kidnapped Inoue. Zommari proved that he was faster than Byakuya. Now it's Starrk's turn to prove he's faster than the fastest Espada.
And he just didn't blitz them. He used Hinamori and Hitsugaya's blind rage to distract them for a second before cutting them down.
Starrk was way faster than Shunsui but there's nothing to prove Shunsui is even that fast. Actually, he's never been shown to be much faster than the other captains.
He no doubt proved he was faster than Shunsui not just foot speed but reaction too.
Yoruichi at that point (atleast without using her enhanced abilities) wasn't who you would call a competent captain level fighter at all.
I mean she was outright blitz by Soifon without her being able to percieve what was going one. If characters don't have speed, they'll have tip top reaction (i.e Kenpachi). Yourichi couldn't react whatsoever. Soifon can not hope to do this to anyone the gotei 13 captains. Never!! She is not capable of killing them in just under a second with pure speed. Come on, she fast but not that fast. She's not Ichigo.
---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------
You last statement is your own interpretation. I can easily say Byakuya's character isn't going to permit him to play a game to cat & mouse, he is too proud for that.
This page http://www.mangapanda.com/94-573-20/...apter-119.html is convincing enough to say Yoruichi had gotten much weaker than she herself initially suspected, so we have no way of finding out how a game of cat & mouse would have turned out.
---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------
The zero squad are likely very shady (that's atleast what Kubo wants us to think since the Aizen vs Ichigo battle ended), however they were given specific intructions from the soul king to rebuild Gotei 13. They didn't waste anytime in there mission. Shutara already grabbed Byakuya, Renji, Rukai & Tensa Zangetsu in seconds. The monk guy broke up the fight between Soifon & Kuwabara because they have a task to complete. They didn't come to waste time. They came to rebuild SS & in the proccess set them straight as a result of SS incompetence. It's not their job to protect SS, Soifon wants to make it their job THAT'S THE POINT.
Aizen didn't use KS against the 4 captains when he blitz them, he just blitz them. Sure Toshiro was mad but that didn't stop the concentration of all the captains, they were just worried about Toshiro's outrage. Aizen still blitz them.
But saying Byakuya's speed amongst the captains isn't impressive is a hollow statement. So far, Byakuya has only got into three speed battles. One with Yoruichi and he gained the upper hand so that Yoruichi needed to use Molting Cicada to get away. Second is with Ichigo, where at that time they looked about even for the most part, especially before Ichigo's inner hollow interfered. Yet, Ichigo isn't a captain, so, he's irrelevant. And the third one was Zommari.
These are Byakuya's speed battles and he didn't have any against the other captains, as far as I can remember.
Stating his rank in terms of speed shouldn't be this easy.
Again, I don't understand how you can say unreleased Starkk was faster or slower. It may well be your own perception from watching the anime.
To me, Ulquiorra in the second stage of his release looked faster than any other Arrancar, but it's just an illusionary view of point to go with, I believe.
In my opinion, Starkk was evenly matched with Kyouraku. He was good enough to counter his opponents' attacks, but at which point he blitzed Kyouraku on an attack so that we refer to him as the faster out of two.
I don't think dodging an attack simply makes you the faster one.
So, that makes Captain-Commander faster than Soifon, yes.
I'll combat your negative reason with reason.
No other captain has moved as fast as her. Whenever she's onscreen the words "fast as fuck" hover around her.
But since you keep going about Yoruichi being rusty and all that, how about this. Soifon was able to create these many clones despite losing her arm being out of reiatsu, out of breathe and literally fainting from exhaustion. And ever since that point until her last appearance that arc, she was sweating profusely. Unlike Yoruichi who only said she had gotten weaker by exaggerating and laughing to herself. Once.
---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------
Having Aizen commenting on your skills is enough to prove something right? Not to mention she did that after battling Vega + Barragan and firing 2 Bankais and exhausted herself. Those clones are even a "Spectacle" for a guy at Aizen's level.
Ichigo's Zangetsu in shikai is light??? Have you ever tried to lift a real long sword?? http://www.palus.demon.co.uk/Sword_Stats.html The heaviest two handed blade listed here is 13 pounds (5.8 kg). It's dimension is only 53.4 inches x 2.1 inches (130x5 cm) Zangetsu is clearly much bigger, at least 3 times bigger. So I'd say that it weight at least 15kg (33 pounds), it is not light by any means.
Yoruichi said that she got weaker, but that doesn't mean she's not at captain level. Why can't you just accept the fact that Byakuya was unable to catch her even though she is carrying an extra 80kg (175 pounds)
Nobody complained about the weight?? Why didn't she save more people??
Oh, and if you take so seriously how she said she've gotten a lot weaker, than you also should take it for serious that she said: "To be still able to OUTRUN Byakuya". She said that herself that she out-runned him, why is that so difficult to take?
http://www.mangareader.net/94-47010-...apter-392.html look at their panic faces + Aizen's words. Why did you think he used Hinamori as a decoy?? He wanted to mess around with the captains' head in order to have them lose their calmness for him to strike.
Last edited by River_Capulet; November 27, 2012 at 03:17 AM.
Taking that into consideration every character in bleach (who aren't normal humans) can create afterimages. It's that simple.
Zomomari's so called speed was matched by Byakuya. No once was Byakuya caught off guard as a result of his speed while Stark proved that speed is especially his forte as the prima espada.
Initially Stark wasn't serious however he got serious after some time but his character doesn't permit him to rage seriousness like other characters, like Grimmjow for instance.
Byakuya wasn't a match then, he wouldn't be a match now.
Sure he wouldn't be a match now but before? Nah. In fact all you gotta do is prove this statement of yours.
An outrageous behavior like that is never acceptable. It's uncalled for. I will never permit my emotions to take over & take my anger out on others. NEVER!
What Soifon(considering her position) did is not professional thus proving my point about her immaturity. Tell me what she did to Tensei was acceptable?
The royal guard (regardless of what their methods are) are there to do their Job. You don't run to others (who ain't part of your team) & beg for them to help you do your Job just "cause you couldn't do shit". Their Job doesn't concern SS fullstop. They came to rebuild & get out of there because their Job doesn't concern babysitting SS.
Toshiro let his guard down & as a result he made his ally worry however to suggest they weren't keeping their eye on target is a preposterous thing to say. They were all keeping eye of target aka Aizen. So for Aizen to blitz them is a feat of speed.
Also I say what I think is logical. Yama has proved that he can oneshot highly capable captain level fighters with speed. Fake Bach (though he had blut vene) was completely surprised by the speed Yama hit him. WW (the same character that took Utitake by surprise in speed & even Urahara) was completely blitzed by Yama's speed.
3 sternritters did a sneak attack (no doubt full speed) & Yama (with his keen sense) was a able to react & burn them all.
Another sternritter (the one that took chojiro's bankai) was also oneshotted by Yama's power & speed. ALL the fights Yama was involved in, he displayed incredible speed (yet no clones lol). Has Soifon done any of that against a competent captain lvl fighter before? IIRC the sternritter she fought is very much alive so....
Yama proved that he has the ability to oneshot capable captain lvl fighters with speed (captain lvl fighters that seem to be making all the captains look like a joke btw). He could do this to Komamura & many of his captains. Do you think Soifon as a chance in hell to do that with speed? Do you think she can nonchalantly oneshot Komamura or any of the captains with speed?To what ridiculous extent will you overrate a character.
She is an assassin so speed isn't her only specialty.
Do you think Kuwabara looking Royal Guard can easily & nonchalantly blitz Yama or Aizen in the same manner that he did Soifon?
& There we have it. That's what I meant by logical.
No. Byakuya never once matched Zommari. He was attacking clones that Zommari made easy to targets. In speed it wasn't even a match.
He did against Aizen, though he wasn't amused by neither the speed or the power of his fist.
He wasn't far from Driscoll the entire time, and when he finally decided it was enough, he just reached his arm to get a hit.