Those are two words you REALLY need to look up in a dictionary.
He was in HUGE despair while fighting Ulquiorra. I don't see him despairing while fight with Aizen. He isn't half dead, helplessly trying to save his friend, or he doesn't have his all family mindfucked and taken from him. He doesn't have his powers taken, he isn't being left helpless on the ground. Oh, and he is not screaming like crazy and crying.
Factual? Did I mention looking it up in a dictionary?Quote:
Tousen would have killed Zaraki with a simple sword to his thoat but instead wanted to teach him fear but by the time he went for the kill, Zaraki already caught on to the trick Zaraki avoided vital damage to the body at the last seconds But his ultimate stratagy to defeat Tousen was to get brutally stabbed sice reflexes would work alone against a captain THAT WAS ZARAKI'S ONLY WAY TO WIN!!
Tousen could have instant kill Zaraki the moment he used bankai & that is a FACT!![/QUOTE]
WOW, those are cool pages you showed me! I saw them like... 1000s times?
You're talking about Tousen's strength. This is shounen manga and NOONE cuts his opponent's throat at the beggining. Ichigo could have done so twice back in SS arc. And you know what... Hinamori could kill Yamaji during his sleep with cutting his throat too! :O But that WOULDN'T make her strong. Just as cutting Kenpachi who wasn't even fighting or trying to fight wouldn't make Tousen strong. And I don't know why Zaraki's way to win is relevant to disccusion about Tousen's strength. It's Kenpachi, he doesn't have any ability, doesn't know Kido. Swinging sword like crazy wouldn't make him win. By the way, Yamaji did the same with Aizen. That makes Yamaji weaker than Tousen? In the end, THAT WAS HIS ONLY WAY TO WIN! (I won't bold it like you). Oh, and there was that suicide technique he used... By your logic, using such means makes you weaker? Great logic, you would really shine in elementary school.
When Kenpachi started to do something, Tousen couldn't kill blind guy without any ability. THAT is a fact.
Tousen felt obliged to protect Aizen. Gin didn't care about saving Aizen, he was concerned about others not being killed by Aizen. Gin did his part. Tousen was always short tempered. He was Aizen's Orihime, or Juha's Haschwald. Always worried about his superior. I just need Tousen shouting "AIZEN-SAMA!" everytime someone attacks Aizen. Aizen was wary of Gin, not Tousen.Quote:
[quote]And are you going to take a piece of dialogue just like that and ignore the rest? Tousen didn't need to be immune to have served Aizen so loyally for years, and in the end it was always Tousen who was besides Aizen while Gin was doing unimportant things. Hell, Aizen even trusted Tousen to the point he would risk getting cut in half.
He was serving him loyally because of Aizen's strength and Tousen thinking, that with Aizen he can "change that rotten world". Aizen RISKING anything? How can you say that he was risking if you don't even know if it was real Aizen? It could have been illusion made specifically to lure Shinji so Tousen could cut him down. And it's Aizen we are talking about. Many tried to cut him from the back, noone could. Trust has nothing to do with power. Aizen knew Tousen would die for him. Tousen is the type who would abandon his life to change a world. And if he believed, that Aizen would change the world, he would GLADLY helped him in it by sacrificing himself. That doesn't make him strong.
Tousen felt, that Aizen's power will bring him success in changing world, and Aizen used it to recrute him. Thaaat's exactly what I call "manipulating".Quote:
Spanish names, so far, were trademark of Hollows. Shikai was normal, Bankai was traded for Ressurection, that's how I see it.Quote:
Aizen didn't care about them. He said himself, that he needs no trust or reliance, he doesn't care. It's natural for weaker beings to believe in stronger ones. He was interested in Gin, so he recruited him. Tousen was an easy and pretty strong asset, he recruited him. (He was one of 10 top fighters in SS, so...). And why was Tousen by his side all the time? Because he was Aizen's obedient slave, that thought he chose his own path, while he walked path of Aizen, that he thought was the same as his.Quote:
Because he WAS strong? The whole argument there was that Tousen wasn't one of the strongest captains, he was still a captain, but he wasn't recruited because of his strength alone.Quote:
Already wrote about that. 10 y.o. killing a 3rd seat was pretty impressive. He graduated from academy in a year, he was called prodigy. Aizen was interested in him despite knowing his intentions. He was pushing back Ichigo, who was said to be twice as strong as captain. And READ ALL POSTS, before you butt into discussion and write stupid things. I've never said Tousen was weak. I won't write what was my point AGAIN.Quote:
And perfect Hollowfication wouldn't help him in killing Aizen. And after failing it wouldn't help him escaping/staying alive.
In Aizen's three-people group he was the weakest link for me. And yes, he was manipulated. Aizen blew him up when he saw he lost. He wouldn't have any use from his power, so he didn't bother letting him live.Quote:
While you're talking about Tousen: it's funny that Tousen never lost while blind. He only lost to Kenpachi in bankai (which, if I understand right, enables him to see) and then in Resurreccion which does the same.
Btw, I don't remember him being able to see. If he could, why wouldn't he go everywhere with his bankai? xd Komamura, I want to know how you look like! Bankai! Oh, you're ugly! And despite having this bankai, he didn't know how blood looks like. (He was very glad to see blood, sky, and Komamura). And it looked like it was the first time he was able to see. Which doesn't make sense IMO, because he was shown to be so happy about seeing. I mean, he wasn't training his Ressurection? He just... had it? He must have been able to see few times.
Well, we know that Gin is the same age as Rangiku and more or less with Byakuya, while Hisagi seems to be closer to the likes of Hinamori, Hitsugaya, Kira, Renji and Rukia.
Also It seems that Gin might have just been a shorty at that point. The same way Hitsugaya is now. Even though he is the same age as Renji, Hinamori and Kira, he seems by far younger.
But well, it's very difficult to talk about the age in Bleach. Especially since Royal Guards were introduced.
Byakuya should be considerably older. Remember, when Byakuya met his wife she was even older than the current Rukia (judging by her look), but when she left Rukia she looked closer to the current Rukia's age, while Rukia was a baby who was just born. At the same time we know judging by Renji's child memories, that he and Rukia have more or less the same age. Hinamori, Kira and Hitsugaya also have more or less the same age. While, Hisagi was just a grade or something higher than them in Shinigami Academy and seemed just a bit older than the same Renji or Kira.
Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; January 04, 2013 at 06:26 AM.
Your arguments are very solid, but still, I can't understand how there can be such a difference between Byakuya and Hisagi, especially when they were all portrayed to be kids in the same arc, alongside Gin and Rangiku.
The only explanation I can come up with is Hisagi took the Academy way older than Renji and Co. did, and he was their Senpai, not just by a year or so, but also with considerable age difference.
Well, it does seem that something is quite messed up .
Still, I've always thought of Byakuya as a person who is considerably older than Hisagi. Maybe around 30 or more SS years, especially since 1 year of SS seems to be way more compared to a Living World ones. Especially, when we look at Rukia who was 200 years old in the begining of the story.
Maybe, between all those people that look like kids, there is an age difference, too, but I don't know how big that gap could be. The age concept amongst the Shinigami isn't something we can get a hold of. Maybe they are already around 70-100 in TBTP, and when one looks like 7, the other looks like 10 and we tend to think they are peers or something
Well ppl not "looking their age" seems rather common in reality, too. (Guesses of my age are usually distributed around 16-21.) If we guess just a few years off, it's actually a lot more in SS, haha.
totally does, and it ends here because I can't come up with more words to link to other pages). You should know you can't apply plot armor when trying to rank people by strength outside of the source.
Both Kenpachi and Yamamoto being forced to be stabbed shows how helpless they were in their situation, nowhere does it say they are weak.
It's all justified anyway, because as shown during his fight with Kenpachi, argument with Grimmjow, TBtP and fake Karakura battle, Tousen can take on a captain with low difficulty.
You called from the past and said hi, Your posts are constantly downgrading Tousen, even if most don't directly say he's weak.Quote:
2- No actual reason to believe he was the weakest link
3- Aizen liked provoking people.
Besides, I don't really get the point of being more worried about the sword. Zanpakuto and the Shinigami aren't two different entities. There is no reason to make it look like anyone can wield the same katana and use that ability. Gin is the only one capable of shooting a katana at the speed of light to slice an array of buildings into two instantly.
And I don't think poison is even relevant in the respective battle. Ichigo didn't know Gin had such an ability, so, he didn't have such an idea in the back of his mind.
Gin also had zero intent to kill Ichigo. If he had, he already had the chance to do so, when Ichigo was watching Aizen's battle with his back turned against Gin. As he himself explained to Aizen, Gin was merely testing what Ichigo had as potential.