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On this board, I see a lot of conflicting opinions on just how powerful Yama-ji is. Some think he has power that rivals Aizen, while others don't even think he could take on the top several espada. I just wanted to know how people felt about him in a direct discussion of his power. I'm of the camp that thinks he's the only one close to Aizen's level right now if not currently more powerful than Aizen.
Some of the opinions are kind of silly. We can only judge him by what we've seen of him:
-His reiatsu brought a lieutenant to her knees
-Kenpachi gave him props
-He can hold his own against two of the strongest captains in the Gotei 13
-He has been complimented on having the strongest fire-type zanpakutoh
I don't see any reasons yet to doubt his strength.
^ I agree. His strength is real, but there's only so much to go by.
One thing though. I think it's safe to say, at least, that he's the strongest captain overall. He wouldn't be the head of the Gotei 13 if he wasn't. Seeing as there are several captains below him that can take the Espada, his being able to fight them isn't a very controversial idea.
But it becomes problematic once you get more specific than that. Which Espada could he fight? Assuming that he's the strongest, that Byakuya was able to manhandle Zomari, and that Zaraki freaked the shit out of Noritora, my best guess is that he'd at least be able to fight Ulquiorra. Again, we don't know for sure--he hasn't fought a complete match in the series yet, and we don't know much about how strong his students are so we can't use them as a measuring stick.
To be honest, I say that he'd be no weaker than Ulquiorra, but that's just a guess. Until we see him fight all-out, against an opponent we know well enough to measure against, we've no way of being sure. The muddled nature of the power rankings in the series makes comparisons difficult.
^ True, but we don't ever doubt that Aizen is stronger than the espada. So then, if people can make judgements comparing Aizen and Yamamoto (which many do), why don't they translate their opinions to him and espada?
2- (check no.4)
3- dont make a difference ,if aizen has become a hybrid , then hes stronger than when he left SS, even though he already has twice a captains powers (man hes really hit the shinigami wall) yamamoto is too "noble" to gain more power like that, so hes probably hit the shinigami wall as well.
4- dosent really matter ,at the time no one had encountered an espada, aizen was keeping his power under wraps, so he looked like the strongest.
im not saying he's weak but ichi is a hybrid with unbelievable power, capable of being as strong as shinji, maybe more, but still has no chance against espada no.1, aizen commands all espada so must be much more powerful than all of them. in my eyes anyone whos hybridized (except yammy whos the espada punching bag)is beyond the power where a shinigami would "hit the wall"normal shinigami can only get so strong, hybrids, as strong as they want to train to.
This topic isn't about Yamamoto being the strongest. It's about people either overhyping him or underestimating him. I was addressing the people who underestimated him because they didn't have an adequate reason to do so.
We know that he's stronger than the Espada. Hollows wouldn't follow a shinigami under any other circumstances. But since we haven't seen either Aizen or the Primera Espada fight all out--again, with someone whose powers we're well acquainted with--we can only specualte how strong Aizen is in a general sense.
Hell, we don't even know who the Primera is, so how can people judge Aizen against him (or her)? Or say how much stronger Aizen is than they are, or compare him to Yamamoto in any meaningful way? There's no hard evidence to base an opinion on.
^ You hit it right on the head, I think.
The comparisons between Aizen and Yamamoto are almost completely subjective. There's no real backing in the story for either side, no matter how you argue it--we just haven't seen enough of them to make any sweeping claims on who is stronger. All we can assume is that Yamamoto is the strongest in Gotei 13, and that Aizen is the strongest in Las Noches--but even that is anecdotal at best.
Plus, again, even if that's true, we still don't know what that says about who would win if the 2 of them fought. Hell, there are 4 or 5 candidates for the second strongest captain (Byakuya, Zaraki, Ukitake and Shunsui). If people can't even come to a consensus on them, when we've seen all of them fight several times, how can one possibly say that Aizen is stronger than Yamamoto, or vice-versa? Again, no hard evidence.
Last edited by gigantor21; December 08, 2007 at 08:49 PM.
Well considering he could fight Shun and Uki, whose complimentary powers make them near invincible, Yama-Ji is up there with Aizen maybe even greater than that. Look at his shikai, it has the highest attack power and it burn everything to ash, just imagine his bankai, he would be like the God of Fire.
^I agree. If yama's shikai already is so big, I cannot imagine his bankai(Going by the tradition that bankai is bigger than shikai). i think aizen is somehow as strong as any vasto lord arrancar. Aizen commands the espada through controlling how each of them behave. His personality makes him able to push people's button and make them do things to him. For example, his shikai makes it impossible to attack him at all, and im sure he cast kyoka suigetsu on everyone of the espada so it makes them useless in front of him.
well i dont see how you can underestimate or overhype someone who has never displayed anything but a released shikai....and with just that shikai, lets not forget that it is the strongest of all fire zanpaktoes and that it pretty much lit the whole area up in flames...im scared to see his bankai...holy crap lol
but still...i dont think you can guess whether or not he is weak or strong...but thats my opinion
Yamamoto is easily the most powerful shinigami if not the strongest character in Bleach, and perhaps the only shinigami capable of singlehandedly defeating a vasto lorde. If anyone is being wrongly estimated, I personally feel that would be Aizen. Aizen has been greatly overrated and would most likely perish before a vasto lorde. Yamamoto might be overrated or underrated, but Aizen is far from the being the strongest of the two. I cannot wait to see just what Yamamoto is capable of once he fully unleashes the fury of Ryujin Jakka onto someone. Whatever that might be like, no illusion could match its power. The moment Yamamoto does so much as announce bankai, the battle will be already over.
Last edited by Neuroff; December 09, 2007 at 02:20 AM.