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Thread: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Fairy Tail Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Well, the thread is simple. Simply discussing what might be the ancient connection between natsu and acknologia. We already know natsu is END in some form or context however that does not really clarify his connection to zeref or acknologia. For a bit of context:

    The manga showed acknologia in ancient tablets fighting a fire user. Perhaps the fire user was natsu or natsu in a presumably etherius form. In either case it would explain why acknologia would mobilize against FT twice, in either case the tablet would seem to hint that that guy could fight acknolgia. Or at least thwart him.

    When zirconis spoke of the past the presumed siluete of acknologia kinda resembled natsu. Now, obviously natsu won't be END and acknologia (plot twist?) but the similarity does hint at a connection between them. Interesting we can make the case that in itself natsu and acknologia seem to have opposing goals. So far acknologia has fought to protect zeref and has acted so as to prevent end whose sole purpose is ending zeref. In turn acknologia was somehow made by zeref which seems to suggest he is interested in keeping the guy alive.


    There might be a few more things worth mentioning although that is plenty of context for the time being. Anyways, for me this heavily hints at natsu and acknologia having a familial connection. Perhaps father and son or brothers. If we look back at rave there was a basically ancient conflict between the raregroove and the glory guys. A duality of sorts. Perhaps natsu and acknologia have something similar going on. However with the context given here it kinda seems like they would be related and eventually took opposing paths.

    Acknologia took a path of destruction. Natsu has so far taken a path to save those he cares about. Acknologia fights to protect zeref for some reason. Natsu fights to defeat zeref. Acknologia turned into a dragon. Natsu can seemingly turn into a particularly powerful demon.

    Now assuming a familial relationship the one that would make the most sense to be is that acknologia is actually natsu's brother. I was thinking father but that does not really work all that well within then context of the duality thing. So acknologia is natsu's brother who took an opposing path to natsu.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Holt; Today at 06:50 PM.

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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acknologia?

    I think they are brothers.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DemonKing888's Avatar
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acknologia?

    I had a funny conversation with a friend, He said what if Acnologia was really female before becoming a dragon and Zeref had a relationship with her. Natsu could be the biological child of two of the most powerful mages in the world. Now this seems very unlikely but it would be such a crazy plot twist. What if Zeref turned his very own son into a demon this could of enrage Acnologia, feeling betrayed choose to go on a rampage after losing her child, living in a world of war between man and dragons she felt that it was the world that needed to pay for taking her child away and could be why Acnologiais so hell bent on chasing down Zeref. Why she want's to destory E.N.D could be a sick form of motherly love, not wanting her baby to be a monster. But her mind is twisted and corrupt now.

    That's one crackpot theory, As for a simpler one Natsu as E.N.D could of been model after Acnologia, Zeref's best friend a person he admire greatly. Acnologia's human form could look exactly like Natsu but with maybe a different hair color.

    At this point it's safe to say E.N.D is Zeref's son, with Zeref wanting Natsu to surpass him something every father wants for their son. Where Acnologia fits in should be a very crazy plot twist.

    My friend thinks "Acnologia" could be a girls name.
    Last edited by DemonKing888; January 21, 2015 at 07:05 PM.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Holt's Avatar
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acknologia?

    Its difficult too say. I mean we can't even fully establish the relationship between END and Zeref/Igneel. However, acnologia and END were probably rivals of some form.

    Anyway, they might have both been trained to some extent by zeref. I know its likely he bestowed powers on both, but I think he might have also personally tutored them in some form.
    Eventually, acnologia became quite evil and perhaps played a similar role to what hades was trying to do on tenrou island. Going by END fighting Igneel, its possible END might have been trying to kill/defeat acnologia back then. Igneel decided to be a sort of peace maker and tried to dissolve the conflict. Also during the tartaros arc, Igneel seemed to be trying to dissuade acnologia from fighting END, even going so far as to say "the one you fear is no more".

    I think when acnologia became a dragon, END fought and defeated him or atleast bested/injured him. END was equally vile and perhaps there was a clash in ego between him and acnologia or some other reason.
    I think Igneel then intervened and tried to prevent anymore killing which led to Igneel and END fighting. Igneel won but ultimately couldn't bring himself to kill END (perhaps he saw some form of humanity in him). Eventually END (the etherious demon itself) was sealed in a book and partly separated from Natsu. Personally, I think in the past, Igneel might have been the strongest existence outside zeref. I think he could defeat both acnologia and END (as well as all the other dragons ofcourse). However, he and the other dragons later got their souls reaped by acnologia. Infact, I dare say acnologia was involved in END's sealing. It was supposedly a very powerful magic seal that couldn't be broken. Face was supposed to wipe out all magic thereby inadvertently breaking the magic seal as well. I'm thinking, the dragons soul acnologia reaped was used to this extent, that is, sealing END. Acnologia might not have directly sealed him, but I think he played a big part.

    Perhaps what Natsu would have to fight and overcome is his Etherious side which was removed from him. So its possible gray would assist in this as well.

    Acnologia and END therefore would be rivals at least (or old friends before a fall out). Although I think them being brothers is quite a stretch.

  5. #5
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    I think END was created by Zeref to kill him, but END was also a threat to Acnologia given that if a bein is powerful enough to kill Zeref, he can most likely take out Acnologia. Zeref either knew Acnologia's strengths as well, or the strength he gave to END was just accidentally enough to scare Acnologia.

    Same

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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I think END was created by Zeref to kill him, but END was also a threat to Acnologia given that if a bein is powerful enough to kill Zeref, he can most likely take out Acnologia. Zeref either knew Acnologia's strengths as well, or the strength he gave to END was just accidentally enough to scare Acnologia.
    I doubt END was created able to wield DS magic. So how was END a threat to any Dragon if we know one can't fight a Dragon without DS magic? END only through Igneel become a threat to the Dragons cause Igneel taught him DS magic. In the past END wouldn't have been able to put a dent on Acnologia's scales.
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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I think END was created by Zeref to kill him, but END was also a threat to Acnologia given that if a bein is powerful enough to kill Zeref, he can most likely take out Acnologia. Zeref either knew Acnologia's strengths as well, or the strength he gave to END was just accidentally enough to scare Acnologia.
    To be honest I don't see how END can be a threat to acknologia itself. The power difference we have seen between dragons and humans so far is nothing short of absurd. The weakest dragons we have seen so far are the ones that appeared during the eclipse events and yet any of them was easily more powerful than makarov or laxus. We are not talking about just a small difference though, we are talking about each dragon being capable of fderizing makarov. Acknologia is as far as we know overwhelmingly more powerful than any of the dragons there. The manga made the point that none there was as powerful as acknologia at least. How many hundreds of times stronger than the strongest people the manga has shown does zeref have to be to match acknologia, the strongest dragon by far? The scale of the whole thing seems absurd. To me the issue acknologia has with end seems to be more along the lines of end being an actual threat to zeref. Unless end is really a demon with DS magic in which case he would be a threat to zeref and acknologia without actually having to match the sheer overwhelming raw power a dragon has.

  8. #8
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Holt's Avatar
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Well END supposedly fought acnologia in the past. Even though he couldn't have had DS magic back then. I'm guessing if END is powerful enough to not only resist zeref's death magic that oozes out every time, but even strong enough to potentially go toe to toe with zeref and defeat him, then he's probably strong enough to take on acnologia. I mean in that picture, acnologia used a dragon's roar at literally point blank range, and END simply blocked using a somewhat thin wall of flame. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that when END and acnologia fought in the past, END matched him even without DS magic and maybe even bested him. Plus igneel specifically said "the one you fear". That's a lot. I think acnologia genuinely fears END or sees him as a threat and not just because he is destined to kill zeref.

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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohsen View Post
    I doubt END was created able to wield DS magic. So how was END a threat to any Dragon if we know one can't fight a Dragon without DS magic? END only through Igneel become a threat to the Dragons cause Igneel taught him DS magic. In the past END wouldn't have been able to put a dent on Acnologia's scales.
    What makes one able to wield DS magic? I dunno if one is born with the ability or if it comes to them in a way. But wasn't END a demon? I don't see why a demon created or made to beat Zeref doesn't have a chance against Acnologia.

    But I'm under the assumption that END was made/existed waaay before Natsu was born.

    Where is the proof for your claims? Assuming the manga didn't outright say that END was born as Natsu somehow.
    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    To be honest I don't see how END can be a threat to acknologia itself. The power difference we have seen between dragons and humans so far is nothing short of absurd. The weakest dragons we have seen so far are the ones that appeared during the eclipse events and yet any of them was easily more powerful than makarov or laxus. We are not talking about just a small difference though, we are talking about each dragon being capable of fderizing makarov. Acknologia is as far as we know overwhelmingly more powerful than any of the dragons there. The manga made the point that none there was as powerful as acknologia at least. How many hundreds of times stronger than the strongest people the manga has shown does zeref have to be to match acknologia, the strongest dragon by far? The scale of the whole thing seems absurd. To me the issue acknologia has with end seems to be more along the lines of end being an actual threat to zeref. Unless end is really a demon with DS magic in which case he would be a threat to zeref and acknologia without actually having to match the sheer overwhelming raw power a dragon has.
    Yeah, but I've always assumed END was a demon because it was created by Zeref, and there was Book of END or Zeref.

    But why did Igneel talk about Acnologia being scared of END? And let's be real, the manga has claimed a lot of enemies were strong or uber strong, but Natsu somehow managed to win thanks to asspull, nakama, or getting powerup. END itself doesn't necessarily have to be stronger than Acnologia to win, just have more conviction.

    Why would Acnologia care if END is a threat to Zeref? Maybe Zeref is the reason why Acnologia exists as it does?


    What I'm assuming:

    Zeref created END ages before Natsu was born
    END is a demon
    Zeref likely did something that made Natsu END or END become Natsu for one reason or another
    END is or has the potential to be on an even footing with Zeref, give or take
    Acnologia fears END's power as it could be the only thing to challenge it


    This is based on my understanding of what I read, which is likely wrong as I haven't really reread those chapters. But if it is, I would like links.

    Same

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Yeah, but I've always assumed END was a demon because it was created by Zeref, and there was Book of END or Zeref.

    But why did Igneel talk about Acnologia being scared of END? And let's be real, the manga has claimed a lot of enemies were strong or uber strong, but Natsu somehow managed to win thanks to asspull, nakama, or getting powerup. END itself doesn't necessarily have to be stronger than Acnologia to win, just have more conviction.

    Why would Acnologia care if END is a threat to Zeref? Maybe Zeref is the reason why Acnologia exists as it does?


    What I'm assuming:

    Zeref created END ages before Natsu was born
    END is a demon
    Zeref likely did something that made Natsu END or END become Natsu for one reason or another
    END is or has the potential to be on an even footing with Zeref, give or take
    Acnologia fears END's power as it could be the only thing to challenge it


    This is based on my understanding of what I read, which is likely wrong as I haven't really reread those chapters. But if it is, I would like links.
    End is without a doubt a demon. My point is simply that the power scale on which the dragons work is entirely different from how humans handle themselves. The stronger humans we have seen are fodder to a dragon so far. Any dragon for that matter. Demons themselves are pretty powerful as far as we have seen. And while all are extremely powerful it does not seem like their power is that much greater than what humans can get. Even mard geer's power was matched, if not surpassed, by natsu's dragon force. End having the sheer raw power to match acknologia without a specific magic which allowed him to do so would be weird IMO. Its simply too much power, far beyond any human, DS or demon so far... Matching any dragon with raw power alone actually is an overwhelming achievement to put it mildly.

    How can end have existed before natsu if natsu is end? Odds are natsu was present in the ancient war and for whatever reason zeref tried to turn him into a demon. Then igneel saved him. To me it makes more sense than end itself presents a threat to zeref rather than to acknologia directly. And acknologia, for whatever reason, needs zeref....

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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Natsu fought with Acnologia in ancient war and here's the proof
    Spoiler show


    Answer is simple. Acnologia was Zeref's first experiment and he turned him into dragon but something went wrong and Zeref changed his mind. Later he just turned another dragon slayer( Natsu) into demon.
    But we dont know one thing. Does this picture show us fight between Natsu and Acnologia before he was turned into demon or after. If before we can assume why Natsu became demon. Even If Natsu and Ancologia were equals after acnologia was turned to dragon he became stronger so to stop him Natsu was turned to demon dragon slayer(END) and that is why acnologia is afraid of END.

    Etherious comes from Aether- The god of light and air.

    I will paste here some info about it.

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by dark123; January 29, 2015 at 04:36 PM.

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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    What makes one able to wield DS magic? I dunno if one is born with the ability or if it comes to them in a way. But wasn't END a demon? I don't see why a demon created or made to beat Zeref doesn't have a chance against Acnologia.

    But I'm under the assumption that END was made/existed waaay before Natsu was born.

    Where is the proof for your claims? Assuming the manga didn't outright say that END was born as Natsu somehow.

    Yeah, but I've always assumed END was a demon because it was created by Zeref, and there was Book of END or Zeref.

    But why did Igneel talk about Acnologia being scared of END? And let's be real, the manga has claimed a lot of enemies were strong or uber strong, but Natsu somehow managed to win thanks to asspull, nakama, or getting powerup. END itself doesn't necessarily have to be stronger than Acnologia to win, just have more conviction.

    Why would Acnologia care if END is a threat to Zeref? Maybe Zeref is the reason why Acnologia exists as it does?


    What I'm assuming:

    Zeref created END ages before Natsu was born
    END is a demon
    Zeref likely did something that made Natsu END or END become Natsu for one reason or another
    END is or has the potential to be on an even footing with Zeref, give or take
    Acnologia fears END's power as it could be the only thing to challenge it


    This is based on my understanding of what I read, which is likely wrong as I haven't really reread those chapters. But if it is, I would like links.
    First of all we have to consider Acnologia as a dragon and not a human anymore. The only way to learn DS magic so far that were shown are either being implanted with a Dragon lacryma or being taught by an actual dragon which means receiving the power from a dragon.
    END was said to be a curse user. Nothing besides DS magic functions against dragons. So how can END even be considered a threat to Acnologia in the past. I understand now cause Natsu is END but 400 years ago before Natsu tried to challenge Igneel he couldn't wield DS magic and it was Igneel who gave him that power.
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    End is without a doubt a demon. My point is simply that the power scale on which the dragons work is entirely different from how humans handle themselves. The stronger humans we have seen are fodder to a dragon so far. Any dragon for that matter. Demons themselves are pretty powerful as far as we have seen. And while all are extremely powerful it does not seem like their power is that much greater than what humans can get. Even mard geer's power was matched, if not surpassed, by natsu's dragon force. End having the sheer raw power to match acknologia without a specific magic which allowed him to do so would be weird IMO. Its simply too much power, far beyond any human, DS or demon so far... Matching any dragon with raw power alone actually is an overwhelming achievement to put it mildly.
    And thus, why would Natsu be lacking the power if he can become a demon dragon slayer? I'm sure almost everyone is fodder to Acnologia though, it's shown to be on a completely different level, beating dragons even before it became a dragon. If dragon slayers are incapable of slaying dragons, then they have no reason to call themselves dragon slayers.

    Natsu has plot on his side, but he also would have the power of a demon, dragon slayer, and nakama to boost his fighting power to the point that he'd be able to beat Zeref and could be a match for Acnologia.

    Raw power is not necessary though, just strong magic and resilience.

    Quote Quote:
    How can end have existed before natsu if natsu is end? Odds are natsu was present in the ancient war and for whatever reason zeref tried to turn him into a demon. Then igneel saved him. To me it makes more sense than end itself presents a threat to zeref rather than to acknologia directly. And acknologia, for whatever reason, needs zeref....
    Magic. END could have existed, but Zeref did something that sealed END away or put him in Natsu or rebirth him probably for a future fight or something. Isn't Natsu about 19? How can he be present in the ancient war, then? Though, I didn't consider that Acnologia might be protecting Zeref out of selfishness rather than because END was a possible risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohsen View Post
    First of all we have to consider Acnologia as a dragon and not a human anymore. The only way to learn DS magic so far that were shown are either being implanted with a Dragon lacryma or being taught by an actual dragon which means receiving the power from a dragon.
    END was said to be a curse user. Nothing besides DS magic functions against dragons. So how can END even be considered a threat to Acnologia in the past. I understand now cause Natsu is END but 400 years ago before Natsu tried to challenge Igneel he couldn't wield DS magic and it was Igneel who gave him that power.
    I am considering Acnologia as a dragon, and it's the most powerful dragon that we know. Even as a dragon slayer it was pretty strong, killing dragons. But why does that mean dragon slayers lack the potential to beat dragons?

    But how can being taught by an actual dragon help? Does one have to drink its blood, give the dragon its blood, or what? And where was it said that only dragon slayer magic affects dragons? That's like saying only demon slayer magic affects demons, even though Natsu won with dragon force.

    Same

  14. #14
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Holt's Avatar
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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Its not only acnologia that killed dragons. We were made to understand that the dragon slayers changed the tide of the war and after some time, started killing dragons on both sides. Its just that none did so more than acnologia. I dunno if its because this current 1st Gen DS is just that weak. Being taught DS magic directly from a dragon has to be the best option. Since Gajeel, Natsu, Wendy, Sting and Rogue are the only ones we know (taught by dragons), there's probably a reason why they couldn't defeat the dragons. Maybe they just are too weak compared to the original generation, or perhaps its because they were taught by dragons who weren't at full power (since acnologia reaped their souls), or maybe the dragons residing in them inadvertently limited their power in the process of creating antibodies to prevent dragonficiation or they are still too young/inexperienced.

    Between Mard Geer and Igneel saying that acnologia fears END, I do think END is really a match. Is there really any reason for acnologia to want to intervene because of zeref and not because END is a threat? I mean, it there's someone powerful enough to take out the most evil and powerful mage in history (Zeref), then its not really difficult to deduce that END is a match for anyone.

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    Re: Connection between Natsu and Acnologia?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    And thus, why would Natsu be lacking the power if he can become a demon dragon slayer? I'm sure almost everyone is fodder to Acnologia though, it's shown to be on a completely different level, beating dragons even before it became a dragon. If dragon slayers are incapable of slaying dragons, then they have no reason to call themselves dragon slayers.

    Natsu has plot on his side, but he also would have the power of a demon, dragon slayer, and nakama to boost his fighting power to the point that he'd be able to beat Zeref and could be a match for Acnologia.

    Raw power is not necessary though, just strong magic and resilience.


    Magic. END could have existed, but Zeref did something that sealed END away or put him in Natsu or rebirth him probably for a future fight or something. Isn't Natsu about 19? How can he be present in the ancient war, then? Though, I didn't consider that Acnologia might be protecting Zeref out of selfishness rather than because END was a possible risk.


    I am considering Acnologia as a dragon, and it's the most powerful dragon that we know. Even as a dragon slayer it was pretty strong, killing dragons. But why does that mean dragon slayers lack the potential to beat dragons?

    But how can being taught by an actual dragon help? Does one have to drink its blood, give the dragon its blood, or what? And where was it said that only dragon slayer magic affects dragons? That's like saying only demon slayer magic affects demons, even though Natsu won with dragon force.
    On the page that is linked you can clearly see that the dragons did give the DS a part of their power/soul or whatever it is that the dragon is giving that DS.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/301/13

    Besides that there are still some contradicting points in the whole dragon war fiasco. We have on one side Zirconis who says a few DS went crazy and started to turn even on the dragons on their side and killing them and the one who killed everyone was Acnologia. And we have Igneel question if humans will ever be able to surpass dragon during the GMG's. IF Acnologia and other DS actually were able to kill dragons wouldn't that mean humans already surpassed dragons long ago? Or did Igneel consider humans weak cause they never reached his power-level?

    @Holt: Well Marde and Igneel said that Acnologia fears END but Acnologia already answered it by saying he fears nothing and that he is the king of dragons. Actually at the time I tend to think that Igneel is the least trusworthy source at the time with his contradicting statements.
    2014 the worst manga year so far.

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