Geniuses don't necessarily have to be intelligent people, just gifted. Sasuke was gifted, he was at top of his class. Itachi was gifted, he was pretty wise and graduated early. Minato was gifted, he was able to understand quickly, make up a plan on the fly, and create or use some complex jutsu. Naruto has trouble understanding simple explanations of Kakashi. -_-
And who do you consider the rookies? Ain't Neji, Rock Le, and Tenten, at the least, yo.
Understanding explanations (no matter how simple you may consider them) is not a prerequisite for genius. Naruto understands things well enough if explained in the right way for him - For example: As Gamitchi (whatever the frog's name was) explained not as Kakashi (or Pa frog) thinks is easy...
Why is the idea of Naruto being a genius such an anathema to you?
(here's a little secret)
guess that is me for this topic - not going anywhere...
Enjoy desperately trying to relegate Naruto to the category of moronic failure who only achieves what he has through blind luck/with no understanding whatsoever of what he is doing...
Naruto's inability to understand this is astounding, because learning from your clones is a passive ability, you don't need to concentrate to do it or even remotely try. Meaning, Naruto had been learning from them his entire life, yet was simply too stupid and air headed to realize he was receiving new information.
---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------
Now, in this manga, genius is identified early in life. Every genius in the manga was identified as a genius at young ages, immediately. This was due to their ability to learn complex things quickly, or even teach them to themselves. And all the while, they do these things with ease.
Nothing has ever come easy for Naruto. He's had to fight tooth and nail for every inch he's ever earned.
You point out not taking away from Itachi and Sasuke's genius. But why are you so hell bent on claiming Naruto's feats are acts of genius instead of being acts of hard work?
As for luck, every ninja needs luck, but not being biased here, don't you think Naruto (and is many ways Sasuke) has had a lot more luck than others? Both of them have had to rely on others to save their asses when they should have been dead (Kakashi, Minato, Itachi, and Kushina for Naruto) (Obito, Zetsu, Orochimaru, and Itachi for Sasuke). And both have had to rely on internal powers (Kyuubi and HATRED FTW!, respectively) to overcome and push them through dire situations.
So saying Naruto hasn't been lucky, is avoiding facts. Hell, he wouldn't even be where he is right now probably if he never farted in Kiba's face to help him win a fight in the Chunnin exams lol.
Where was it said other people couldn't shape their chakra to someone else? All I saw was Naruto shaping Kyuubi's chakra.
How is it not? If you don't understand basic explanations, then how does that make you a genius? That's like saying not understanding basic math doesn't make an adult dumb. Too many things work against Naruto being a genius.Quote:
Gamakichi basically dumbed it up immensely for Naruto to understand. If Naruto doesn't understand basic explanations without making it a metaphor, how does that make him a genius?
Because he freakin' isn't a genius. You can say he's clever, shrewd, or smarter than he lets on, but you can't prove he's a genius, not like Sasuke or Minato. Naruto being much smarter than he's shown makes sense. I'd accept Naruto possibly being much smarter if he had a better childhood, because Naruto's proven he's not a complete idiot.Quote:
What do you mean take away from Itachi or Sasuke? And yeah, I consider Sasuke and Minato to be a genius.
I'm not the one with desperate arguments here, though. Besides, if you actually do read my posts, you'd see I defend him and say he's smarter than given credit for. Naruto's the one who considers himself a failure, not me. You're bad at summarizations, though, or understanding posts. I never said Naruto was a moronic failure, all I said was that he's not a genius like people claim him to be. I don't consider Jiraiya a genius either, but I do think he's smart.
And "gifted" as in, natural talent and stuff. like how Neji was able to learn main branch techniques on his own, like how Minato and Kakashi are able to think quite complexly and figure out stuff, and like how Itachi had the wisdom of a hokage at young age and was quite skilled at fighting due to his intellect. Shikamaru wouldn't be gifted, even though he's one of the smartest.
Once again though, I guess despite manga stating otherwise, this is a difference of opinion.
A genius needs perceptive ability. In other words, a genius doesn't necessarily have to possess the IQ Shikamaru has, but a genius also cannot be someone who is borderline stupid in terms of intelligence.
Shikamaru, Sasuke and Neji are ahead of the pack compared to the other rookies. One is the best strategist of his generation, Sasuke was able to use Nature Manipulation as a child, Neji got a hold of secret Hyuuga techniques just by observation on his own, not getting trained for them at all. Gaara was one, using unrealistically powerful sand techniques as a kid.
Naruto most recently didn't understand a word Madara said (What was it again, I don't remember), so, I don't think in the end, he will be classified as one.
in which case the uchiha are usually geniuses because they are just born more skilled and stronger than others for example
He's no brainiac, but that isn't being stupid, is being ignorant.
Mostly because Sasuke scored last in teamwork
By your definition, except for saying/thinking complex things Naruto would be a genius:
-created one of the strongest jutsu in the manga and perfected it on his own
-one of the best shape manipulators in the entire manga, if not the best
-able to figure out things people couldn't figure out ( Raikage's scar, method to combine Nature & shape manipulation with KBs)
-quite skilled at fighting
Add a chakra control several tiers beyond everyone else, and Naruto for your standards is a top notch genius
Have to give it to Naruto, that Raikage scar deduction made him look like someone else, totally
---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------
But what I referred to wasn't a complex speech, it was a single word spelling. Naruto has gone to Academy and naturally, they all went through some sort of basic education. He should do better than that, as an orphan or not.
And probably believing that Luffy is popular because he's stupid, so maybe he believes Naruto will be more popular if he's more stupid
Say what you want about Ichigo, but at least he's not from the same Goku stamp everyone else's is
Well him and Oga, but Beelzebub is years ahead of other mangas