1. You can't add people together and get a total power level (as someone else stated) 4000 doesn't equal 400 x 10
3. Zoro didn't 1 shot Hodi...or he would have been defeated. The next time you see Hodi he is shouting on the loud speaker perfectly fine...then he gets several times stronger after that. If anything Luffy gets weaker and still does significantly more damage to Hodi's body with any of his attacks.
2. Pre-timeskip Zoro would never be able to keep up with Lucci, enough said on speed. Unless (and course we dont know) Zoro some how got faster than post time-skip luffy with his mastery over Gear 2 and Haki bonus.
4. Mihawk couldnt topple Flower Sword Vista. Does that mean Vista is a btter or equal swordsman? Know he didn't go out of his way to be known as the best swordsman he is just known as Whitebeards General while being an extremely master swordsman. Mihawk has a title, but whos to judge titles? Zoro will be the greatest swordsman only because he beat Mihawk, Luffy will be the Pirate King because he'll litterally be the strongest pirate in the world incluing Zoro.
All in all Luffy will always be stronger than Zoro in my opinion.
Ok, Vice Admiral Dolmatin is at the same level as other Vice Admirals, stronger than most of the swordsmen in Marines while his fighting style is the same as Lucci's, but with the aid of Haki.Quote:
The same Garp was given the posibility to be an Admiral and Sengoku was an Admiral and then Fleet Admiral, while he wasn't swordsman and I do believe that there are tons of swordsmen in Marine and they are weaker than any of these guys. Thus of course swordsman isn't always stronger than non-swordsman.
1. What was actually the point of this comment?Quote:
2. Why I actually can't prove that when Zoro use three swords that is the showcase that he is using the strongest level of his attacks? It's just obvious. If he didn't need it he would have used one or two swords.
The thing I tried to point was that Luffy's practically basic attack in this Arc made Pacifista explode, while even nameless but used with three swords (not with one or two) would be the strongest level of Zoro's attacks. It's the same for Luffy when he uses attacks without gears, with Gear 2 or with Gear 3.Quote:
My only argument was that Luffy managed to one shot a creature that is ten or more times bigger than Sunny in water and not with his strongest attack, while I don't believe Zoro would have managed to pull it neither in water nor on land, because that was one of the strongest attacks we've actually seen in the manga so far (not counting WB, Admirals and Enel it would be even the strongest).Quote:
Actually Luffy was using Haki all the Arc from Sabaondy. The only thing that he started to use Hardening effect on Hodi and also not from the begining. The thing is that Hodi was by far stronger than any antogonist in this Arc. When he had a skirmish against Hammond, Hyozou and another Fishman he just said that about Hyozou to showcase that he isn't a punchbag, because Hammond and the other guy were. Luffy actually didn't have any problems with them. He actually managed to make two shots and make two them out and Hyozou to retreat and all this in several seconds. I do believe he would have trashed the same Hyozou in the same way Zoro trashed Hodi before Hodi's transformation.Quote:
Also to compare Hodi with any villain in this Arc is just unfair. He was mocking the floor with the King and three Princes, I would even dare to say that he was way stronger than all the NFP Leutenants combined and of course way stronger than Hyozou individually, because he ate tons of the pillos even before the transformation, not even saying that he ate more than five after his transformation and we know that any of them increases your strength by 2 times.
Also Luffy had hard time against Hodi only because they were in the water, where Luffy had hindrance because of his DF and where Hodi had great increase in his speed, while Zoro or Sanji were fighting against there oponents on land. That's also a difference. While Luffy was fighting Hodi on the land he didn't have any problems.
Here is Zoro using just one sword but a named skill. This is a advanced skill. If post-Zoro would use this skill, it would be moer destructive than using 3 swords in a nameless attack. I think of any named attack as a advanced skill, while a nameless attack more a basic skill. Its true Zoro used three swords, but he has named skills with one or two swords which are more destructive than three nameless sword attacks.
As for the Kraken, I think all three would be able to oneshot it. Luffy used one of his strongest skill. While we know for sure Sanji and Zoro did not use their strongest.
Anyway, Im not trying to say Zoro is stronger or anything. Luffy is definitely stronger, but just by a small gap.
Last edited by BlackHair; January 27, 2012 at 05:22 PM.
I do believe that Luffy is a one tiny step ahead of Zoro,The Two have shown extreme toughness(Zoro at thriller Bark,Luffy all the way through Impel down to marineford)their fighting style are very different so it's more difficult to judge....
Moreover,a fight between the two will likely never occur.....I also want to point out Zoro's beautiful,unshakeable fidelity toward his captain,Zoro is often Likened to a samurai,then If Zoro is a samurai,Luffy would be his Lord
"All Of Lord Luffy's Enemies Die By These Blades" OP Version of Tenchu FTW!!!
I guess part of the issue as far as the difference between this guys is that asura is a bit of an unknown factor. Still, even if we considering the difference in doriki it is fairly impressive that zoro fought evenly with kaku in his hybrid form without any form of boost whatsoever and one shoted him with asura is fairly impressive. I guess it does come down to how kaku in his hybrid form would compare to lucci's normal form (luffy fought lucci's normal form without gears and seemed roughly even or perhaps a tad inferior).
I still don't think the difference between luffy and zoro is that large these days and it has never been so. If anything, that zoro had such an easy time with ES hyozu would be an indication of something considering luffy was impressed with regular hyozo and zoro was massively disappointed.
Actually in this Arc this attack was really Luffy's basic. And I see it's quite logical that for Zoro any three-sword attack is more advanced than one or two-sword attacks.Quote:
I agree with you, but the attack with which Zoro took down Pacifista looked like one of his special attacks Oni giri, thus I believed it was one of his strongest attacks.Quote:
Talking about nameless attacks... Sanji here clearly used Diable Jambe http://www.mangareader.net/103-58198...apter-601.html
but he didn't announce it, but still it was Diable Jambe. So I do believe that my logic is quite correct.
I can believe that Zoro or Sanji can take Kraken, but I don't see them one-shotting it. Luffy used really one hell of an attack, but unless Zoro or Sanji will show such level of attacks I don't see them one-shotting it.Quote:
Also I believe a little gap is between Zoro and Sanji, but Luffy is considerably stronger. I see the difference between them at least as between Lucci, Kaku and Jabura. But, it's my point of view, I won't insist.
Where is it stated that the pirateking is the strongest pirate in the world? Because then Whitebeard would have been the pirateking after roger. You are pirateking when u find and reach Raftel, get one piece and can announce it. You dont even need to be the strongest, the only thing you need is the skill to survive in the new world.
I see Luffy and Zoro still as equals. Luffy got his DF to his advantage and Zoro his swords. Zoro cant oneshot Kraken? Did you guys see his "one sword stye 360 pound cannon?" this with 3 swords and kraken is at the end. ^^ To be honest after Thriller Bark i was sure, that Zoro was stronger at Ruffy at this point, he just was too badass.(defeating Ryouma, fighting against OZ, taking some really bad hits, then Kuma and all of the damage Luffy had taken..."Nothing at all") After Impel Down and Marineford they went equal again and now they got training from the best possibles trainers for their fighting style.
Also Zoro fights often injured and not in his 100% so that he is on the level of a henchmen of the boss. Arlong and Okta... against the Catbrothers without 3 swords... don creek he was wounded by mihawk, against kaku he had sogeking on his arm... thriller bark we saw his full strength at this point and it was topnotch. ^^
The problem lies within the concept that Luffy has to overcome as least some of the Yonkou with Blackbeard standing as his last strongest rival before Raftel, who has amassed some of the strongest pirates and has enhanced them with strong DFs too. If Luffy isn't the strongest at that point, he will just have not a chance to become Pirate King.
Yes Zoro hasn't shown all he got, just as Luffy couldn't go all out under "normal" circumstanes.
Early Display of Haki maybe:
Is it possible that Zoro already possess the ability to use Haki, but he just lacks the mastery over it?
Zoro's ability to dodge those falling debris can be linked Kenbunshoku Haki. And his ability to cut Daz Bones can be linked to Busoshoku Haki.
Welcome to the forum. It's a bit overloaded with all the pages, better to just post a link to the starting page to a streaming site with the mention to read a bit further.
I remember discussing the possibility of Zoro showing haki at that point, but it seems like the community is split on that matter. While it could explain Zorro's actions, I would like to keep the mistery about swordfighting the and cutting of hard materials seperate from haki till told otherwise. It would give them something of their own, to overcome problems like harder materials with experience and training.
Let me say this.
When Luffy's DF power was first introduced, they gave that whole thing about how "blunt" damage doesn't harm him while "sharp" objects cause him pain. For some reason, that registered in my mind as "Omg Luffy takes double damage from sharp stuff!"
I guess I imagined it like Pokemon. Luffy is Resistant to Blunt Damage but takes a x2 weakness to sharp stuff.
..but then I read a post on this forum a couple of years back that changed my perspective entirely. Luffy is not "weak" to blades. If Luffy is weak to blades then so is Sanji, Zoro, Nami, Chopper and every other human being in the story.
It's not that Luffy is WEAK to swords. It's the fact that, out of all the brute force Luffy can take without damage -- damage from swords isn't one of them. His limbs can be cut off, his skin can be lacerated...his DF powers can't protect him from that.
Once I was able to understand that, my entire perception of how the fight would go changed dramatically.
I think Luffy would win. Would he get cut up? @#$! yeah. But in the end...I see Luffy coming out victorious.
Well it's in fact true that Luffy does not take more damage if he's hit by a sword than any other normal human being. But still it can be considered a weakness compared to non sharp weapons. That said since we are talking about a swordman that is able to cut a person completely made of steel I don't think it matters that much if he takes more damage than a normal person or not since a hit would be in most cases fatal.
I want to add that this post should not be a statement of who would win the clash it should rather show that realising that Luffy takes not more damage than any other person should not weigh that much in an argument.
I forget about this thread completely. Sry for my late replay.
But regardless, Im still with my original idea. Luffy is stronger than Zoro, but not by a great margin. I stand by my opinion, and it seems you do with urs. As such there is rly no point for a discussion, since we won't change our minds. Lets agree to disagree
I don't want to argue about such fits as raw power and destruction power, but still Luffy's speed is ways above Zoro's, especially after the last chapter, where Luffy managed effortlesly dodge joined CC's and Slime's explosive attack from point blanck and get behind CC in a blink of an eye and not only CC was surprised, but also Luffy's crew and it seemed that Luffy was playing around and he could have move even faster. I don't believe that Zoro can move even near as fast or react to such movements, at least for now as he didn't show something close.
P.S. Still, I can agree to disagree.)
Not sure how the last chapter can be used to suggest luffy is that much faster than zoro. Honestly, we have never had a chance to compare their speeds. If anything, as far as we know zoro is also capable of similar feats of strength. More so, we don't even know how fast ceasar is to begin with, for all we know ceasar was slow as hell(ceasar does not seem strong at all at least).