Madara is already revered as a genius at a young age. However, Hashirama has been shown getting the best of him in their sparring matches (it seems like it).
Is Hashirama stronger than Madara because of his desire to unify clans and create peace (which requires equally appropriate strength to rule over others) or is he naturally gifted because he's a Senju?
Hashirama is stronger than Madara for one reason and one reason only....he shampoos his hair. No one with bad hair can rule the world let alone rule his own clan. Hashirama's long silky flowing hair is proof enough for me.
Are you serious?
-Just about Tsunade level regen.
-Insane stamina, chakra...
-Super huge summon that dwarfs Kurama with Perfect Susano on it.
Do i need to go on?
Because if the bad guy was stronger then he would have won and the rest of the story would never have panned out. Villains have to lose by default, unfortunately.
In all seriousness they're evenly matched, but strength doesn't equal victory, and victory isn't always determined by technique either.
I think Harshirama is more resourceful than Madara with his strength. If you look at Raikage vs Naruto, in a straight fight Naruto would have no chance against him; however, Naruto used his resources and craftiness to take down even an immortal Raikage.
Emm Madara also had Kurama... If not for Kurama and Hashirama going all out i can't see how they could be on equal footing.
Kurama is not exacly part of Madara's power but that is just my opinion.
If Kishi changes nothing, then Hashirama was already well known, and Madara became well known fighting with Hashirama and surviving. Hashirama could have beaten Madara at Valley of the End via will of fire. But given what Madara has said about Hashirama, he should have easily dominated over Madara as an adult.
I don't believe Kishimoto would be so shallow as to state that Hashirama is stronger than Madara because he is of Senju heritage. It kind of goes against the power dynamics shown throughout the series where geniuses are bested by tryhard lower classed ninja (ie. Naruto vs Neji, Rock Lee rivalry with Neji, etc.)
I think the same applies to Naruto and Sasuke where Naruto went tryhardmode and most likely surpassed Sasuke at this point in time. It seems the only difference (fight wise) between the Madara, Hashirama feud and the Sasuke, Naruto feud is that Hashirama ultimately settled on killing Madara (and probably thought he was successful) whereas Naruto will not kill Sasuke.
---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------
I think the opposite occurred. The Uchiha dominated other clans after Madara came into power and it's been said when someone hired the Uchiha, they would be countered by Senju. I believe Uchiha were more well known due to their over imposing influence spread as a result of their fights.
Hashirama > Madara
The guy basically defeated Madara + Kurama, all by himself like a boss, as Xxan said, Kurama normally isn't included into Madara's arsenal, although the Uchiha have the means to control him
But Mito sealed the KYuubi in her during the fight, yet they were still equal.
Well you have to remember that both Madara and Hashirama wanted to save the world of ninja from what it was experiencing on a daily basis. Children killing eachother. Families existing for the sole purpose of becoming murderers. It wouldn't be accurate to say Hashirama "wanted it more", because we know now from Tobirama's info that the Uchiha are controlled by by emotion.Quote:
Well... that's exactly what he's saying. Or, in a sense.Quote:
Remember: the thing that places Hashirama above Madara is his sheer stamina and brute strength, both of which are the result of his Senju heritage. Even his Sage Mode is only possible because he was born with a colossal chakra reserve (as one needs a large chakra reserve to activate Sage Mode), thanks to being a Senju.
The will of fire..... it was started by him. He has something to protect. The series will boil down to Naruto and Sasuke being images of Hashirama and Madara. One powered by love to protect and one powered by anger and vengence.
Mokuton and all that shit is also with Yamato, yet he is weak as fuck.
I seriously don't see how she could be sealing the fox or even get close to those 2 fighting... Not only that Kurama is protected by that huge Susano.
We are going to get the specifics very soon but i am just about sure it was not during the battle.
---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------
The "will of fire" has nothing to do with Yamato's power level.
There has been one flashback picture where the Kyuubi was not enclosed in Susano'o at all. I think it was nighttime? So she could have snuck up and done the seal as quickly as possible, or Hashirama could have stolen control and made it more docile so it wouldn't go on a rampage or for Mito to seal in her.Quote:
Kushina could have been wrong, translation could have been wrong, or both were right. And if Kishi doesn't change anything, then the Kyuubi eventually lost its Susano'o protection (which I doubt would have prevented the sealing) and the fight lasted into the night, if it was day when the flashback started.
Besides, Madara himself wasn't fighting physically, he was on the Kyuubi augmenting its power. Hashirama was basically fighting Kyuubi with some aid from Madara. Durin that two-page spread flashback (when Tobi was talkin to Sasuke?), Madara was attackin Hashirama while the Kyuubi was roaring.
Either way though, now I wouldn't put it past Hashirama to have been easily dominant thanks to Mokuton but holding back, until like Naruto he realized or saw Madara couldn't be saved and killed him for the sake of Konoha and shinobi world.
''In that battle, hashirama gained control of the kyubi. And in order to harness its power, mito seal the kyubi within herself.''
Is this scan/kushina's statement isn't enough proof that hashirama gained control of the kyubi after he defeated both madara and the kyubi?
There's too much assumption and excuses. There's still someone who keep twisting the manga fact and making up things for their beloved uchiha.
The manga already stated that hashirama defeated madara together with the kyubi. And after that fight, hashirama gained control of the kyubi. Nothing more nothing less.