Bound or not, hashirama's wooden dragon was binding the kyubi's movement and at the same time, t'was absorbing the kyubi's chakra. So somehow, the kyubi becomes useless. So I think we can consider that as a win to hashirama. Right?
And my point to RK is that hashirama has the power to fight kurama and madara at the same time. He doesn't need his wife at all. Saying that mito helped hashirama to fight madara is just a bad excuse and at the same time a baseless assumption. They want to believe that madara was defeated by hashirama because mito was there to helped him. As in, what the hell is that?
If hashirama don't want the landscape to be destroyed by their jutsu, then why would he want mito to help him to fight madara? Is hashirama is that just desperate? Why would he, anyway? Hashirama knew that he's superior to madara. That's why he said that he don't want to kill him.
uhh... so discussion is about Hashirama, Madara, Kyuubi and Mito. well, i don't care if Mito sealed Kyuubi after or during the battle. for me, Hashirama overpowering Madara with perfect susanoo armored Kyuubi is a proof good enough.
And actually, the previous chapter would prove the opposite. We clearly saw Hashirama with no edge over Madara and the Kyuubi. If Mito came in later and "aid" Hashirama by sealing the Kyuubi, that would easily grant Hashirama the edge enough to "defeat" Madara. Mito taking down the Kyuubi would in no way reflect upon Hashirama's ability to fight Madara, so there would be no issue with Madara respecting him. There's no downplaying going on, especially since I'm going by what we are actually being shown.
My two cents puts it all down to chakra.
The huge difference between Madara and Hashirama is in the amount of chakra the each have and while they have techniques matching each other in strenght, Hashirama can keep them going for longer and that's why he won.
When you factor in Kurama, it's a two edge sword, while it's chakra is much bigger than that of Hashirama (something Madara likely accounted for) said chakra can only be used by a Jinchuriki whereas Madara had to spent his own chakra controlling the beast and rely solely on it's brute power against that of Hashirama.
In the end, probably both fighters were exhausted, however, Madara would have won if Hashirama didn't remove the fox from his control and that's were Mito came in to take Kurama down before Madara could recover.
Afterwards, Madara and Hashirama were on a pure 1x1 and Hashirama's greater stamina and chakra reserves ended up besting Madara.
Also, keep in mind that Madara was not actually aiming for a victory there but actually to steal cells from Hashirama so that he could awake the Rinnegan and start the Moon Eye Plan.
In the flashback of Kurama, right before Madara took control of him, the latter was already speaking about the tailed beasts coming from a single being and that was strong evidence that his Moon Eye Plan was already clearly set on his head.
His goal was to obtain Hashirama's power and the Rinnegan before disappearing from the world view so it's likely that even if Madara had won, he would have pretended to have died alongside Hashirama to keep his plans going.
It's likely that Madara's original Moon Eye plan was something more simple like getting the Rinnegan, releasing the Mazou from the Moon chasing the tailed beasts by himself and reviving the Juubi to brag about it on Hashirama's face.
Indeed, the way Madara speaks, he likely planned to make an astounding comeback armed with the Mokuton, the Rinnegan and the Juubi to beat Hashirama soundly and tell the world to bow before him like the god he think he is.
However, things didn't go as planned, Madara grew old with no noticeable results from his implant whereas Hashirama kicked the bucket on his own and by the time Madara finally awoke the power he sought it was to late to use it on his available lifespan.
Hence he had to drag Nagato and Obito into the whole bullshit and the latter managed to pull it off spectacularly.
Last edited by 1337 haxor; March 18, 2013 at 03:59 PM.
well after todays chapter we can say Hashirama is always naturally stronger then madara
And what do you mean about being shown?
Hashirama run away from madara at the forest to avoid the destruction of the landscape. Have you seen him worrying on mito? No. Did madara even said that mito sealed the kyubi at that fight? No. Did madara said that mito helped/aid hashirama at that fight? No. The fight in the vote is just between madara and hashirama, nothing more. Saying that mito was there to help/aid hashirama to defeat the kyubi or madara is just a baseless excuse/assumption.
So, what's up with Mito coming in a battle where mountains are getting sliced and nuclear explosions everywhere ? Is that even possible ?
Beside, Hashirama was shown talking to the Kyuubi (battle-worn) most likely after his battle with Madara.
Last edited by Schabrak; March 19, 2013 at 02:16 PM.
That's pretty much been the main argument for why he's was stronger then Madara for some time: the fact that his Senju body would allow him to outlast Madara, especially when the latter as throwing around a bunch of high cost techniques. Throw in regeneration and Sage Mode, and it becomes less about raw power and more about durability.