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I'm not even sure Lucci can win against Smoker both in pre-war, so it depends on some special circumstances when we compare one character with another one, Vergo is out of question, Lucci wasn't powerful enough to damage that harden body. Now get back to the main question: how strong are the members of CP0, at least all of them know how to use haki otherwise they can't do anything in NW, this means the weakest member is stronger than Lucci and in the level of VA. If the head of the CP0 has the same authority as Sengoku or even higher then I expect the power must also match up as well, we can compare him with Fujitora or Marco in term of strength or maybe not, it's still too early to tell but at least no one in CP0 is weaker than Lucci otherwise Law doesn't give a damn about their showing up on the island.
The best agent in CP0 should be a strong fighter similar to Lucci in Paradise. I can see that agent being around admiral level maybe, but I'm not quite sure about the rest. I do know that they should all be stronger than pre-timeskip Lucci. As I stated earlier I expect their abilities to be a combo of both haki and rokushiki, maybe a revised version of it. Or maybe a martial arts based on different haki applications. And yes Airgrimes, Sanji has been way overdue for a true New World battle. I will be serioiusly disappointed if he gets the screws put to him again.
Last edited by eefrit; May 08, 2013 at 07:38 PM.
Honestly speaking, Sengoku didn't go all out fighting Luffy, otherwise Luffy would have received something more than just an ordinary punch which didn't have enough power to knock him out completely. I think the main point is that the admirals are still weaker than WB in term of 1-1, otherwise all 3 of them could finish off the old man while Garp took care the rest easily without any fighting back, not to mention the shichibukai also joined in the slaughter too.
All this "level talk" is sooo not One Piece, could we end that, as we have neither doriki levels nor fights to compare characters like Akainu, Kizaru, Kuzan, Garp, Sengoku with each other or those lower ranked? Does anyone believe that Fujitora was not worthy of his rank two years ago? Would have a VA rank made him weak back than? No. The huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge range of viceadmirals, as those are the only reliable force for the Marines in the New World, will make up the majority of marines that the Mugiwaras will have problems with, not the admirals, not after Fujitora has appeared already and shown intentions to keep his mission and Luffy apart for now. At times like that I'm sad about the introduction of haki, it started all this comparability bullshit that was never really present in OP discussions before!
But why would the World Government have such capable character/s and not have much more power in the NW before? A person comparable to Borsalino in strength with Haki and Rokushiki would be perfect for assasinations and destabilization of Yonkou controlled countries/islands. I would abuse those agents to no end and try to bring those pirates up against each other, but no such thing is hinted to until now. All we know is that Akainu started to militarize the Marines and only started to conquer the New World when he got promoted to fleet admiral.
Does anyone think that CP0 will after this arc? Will they be of importance? If one of the is as strong as the current admirals, who is supposed to fight them with so much else going on all around the island already? Personally I can't see how any of those could be stronger than Doflamingo, that would devaluate him in an arc that's about himself.
Yeah, I promote a shift from the strenght/power talk to one including the actual plot and story. :P
Last edited by Schabrak; May 08, 2013 at 08:22 PM.
"But why would the World Government have such capable character/s and not have much more power in the NW before? A person comparable to Borsalino in strength with Haki and Rokushiki would be perfect for assasinations and destabilization of Yonkou controlled countries/islands. I would abuse those agents to no end and try to bring those pirates up against each other, but no such thing is hinted to until now. All we know is that Akainu started to militarize the Marines and only started to conquer the New World when he got promoted to fleet admiral.
Does anyone think that CP0 will after this arc? Will they be of importance? If one of the is as strong as the current admirals, who is supposed to fight them with so much else going on all around the island already? Personally I can't see how any of those could be stronger than Doflamingo, that would devaluate him in an arc that's about himself."
I think because the WG has to deal with Dragon and if one of the yonkou is murdered by an agent of WG, then there might be a possibility that 2 of the yonkou will join force to take out WG with some help from Dragon.
All right, so we have Fujitora, DD, and the strongest of CP0, Burgess, some strong fighters in this tournament, DD's 4 generals; on the other hand we have Law, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and the rest of the crew, then how do you match up this balance?
Does any of the Yonkou strike you as somebody to cooperate with another one? No one, not even Shanks to be that kind of type. To be honest, I didn't think of someone attacking the Yonkou themself, that's suicidal and shouldn't work with how the crews are made up so far. Rockstar is a CP0 member, waiting for the right time to take on Shanks when he's asleep. j/k Hm this reminds me of Ace failing to attack Newgate even in his sleep, so I don't really see how any of them could fall without a real fight.
1. Doflamingo has whole crew as big as the mugiwaras.
2. Does anybody really expect them to have even matches in this arc? I don't think any of the Strawhats will fight a CP0 member, Burgess or Fujitora, since all eyes are on the fruit, the citizens and most importantly, on Doflamingo anyway.
Last edited by Schabrak; May 08, 2013 at 08:52 PM.
They don't have to join force but the WG can't handle the situation if the remaining yonkou decide to attack directly (after knowing WG sent assassins after their heads and 1 or 2 of the 4 yonkou died as the result) and Dragon does some dirty work in the background.
Am I missing some important point or does your premise not make any sense at all.
How would one dead Yonkou lead to an alliance of others, just to start a war with the World Government? Why would they do that, an assassination would not show the affiliation and even if they got cought they wouldn't reveal their background. The Yonkou are as much Dragons enemies as everybody else, he won't do any of that or his cause would be corrupted Imo. He wants the citizens to fight, not some despot/tyrant who's in some cases would be even worse than the WG. Remember countries burning because of candy!? Gabull the revolutionary being hunted down by Kaidou's henchman? Those two aren't even questionable, they are exactly that what Dragon is fighting against.-_- If you start to discuss things, be realistic or at least work with what we already got.
I'm thinking about the yonkou independently attack the WG directly unaware of the other motive, well at least Shanks is willing to join force when the situation suits him well but I'm not sure about the others. this topics runs from comparison of strength into global war and you started it twice!
Anyway, I don't think the CP0 has the same goal as Fujitora, because the WG always has some shady business lying around everywhere. I'm not sure how it plays out in the meeting and whether Violet is a CP0 agent or not. In the last time, CP9 had 4 members on Water7: 3 males + 1 female, do you think they organized the plan the same again?
Nah, Mingo is/was a far to big ally to waste so many agents on perennial missions, just to observe and wait. Until the WG learned about the dark secret of PH and his connection to Kaidou, there wasn't anything interesting about him to start a mission Imo. We know he had connections to the WG, so he probably sent some good money their way too keep them silent about his practices.
We were discussing the levels of ranks beside CP0 anyway. This isn't down to you.
Others mentioned Aokiji in replies to my post anyway so the discussion of Admirals in addition the VA level characters was going to happen regardless.
Considering the mods didn't complain why attempt to kill discussions if it isn't any of your concern? The mods do a good job here no need to undermine them.
The Yonkou don't seem to necessarily on be great terms with one another. Not even the Shichibukai who pretty much supposed to be a sort of team can truly get along so well.
So far, all Dragon does is hover around the Blue Seas and take revolutionize small villages/towns/cities one by one and since Luffy has embarked on his journey, Dragon hasn't really bumped into any notably powerful WG employees be it from Cipher Pol or the Navy.
I'm assuming its that the WG has been completely unable to track him.
On top of that, even after the death of WB we had no reaction from Dragon being showed so the death of a Yonkou will probably just lead to a new guy replacing him and probably not much more than that.
If CP0 do actually fight the SH's in the same format that CP9 did which I doubt, then its gonna be one hell of a long arc.
And even CP9 were shown to have recovered from their beating and set out sail with an aim.
So knowing Oda, we never really see the last of anybody. I mean... Enel was last seen afterwards on the freaking moon, Miss Monday was last shown to now be a mother and the mighty Magellan was seen as the Vice-Chief of Impel Down. So I don't think it will be the very last, but certainly the last time they are an integral part of the storyline.
Last edited by Airgrimes; May 09, 2013 at 11:16 AM.
Why don't they just send a Vice-Admiral along with some Cipher Pol officials and Govt officials to the countries that have been revolutionized a while after the RA's have left?
At the Buster Call in Enies Lobby it seems to me that there are always Vice-Admirals with loads of time on their hands.
Vice-Admiral Yamakaji in particular looked like he does nothing all day.
Instead, it makes me think if the CP0 don't get finished in this arc, they will be shown again fighting against the Revolution.
I think the Revolutionaries are just as dangerous as a Yonkou.
I'm assuming Dragon is like a Yonkou in power at the minimum with some seriously strong commanders.
(I don't think it was confirmed Ivankov was the offical 2nd-in-command so there should be stronger foes)
Simply put, there must be some kind of specific unit for dealing with the RA's considering there has been no Marine who has been known to be targeting the RA's like how they target Pirates.
Lucci automatically loses to all Logia users.
To me the classification as CP-0 is not necessarily a matter of fighting power but overall indipendence. While the numbers from 1 to 9 may be an indication of the raw power, the number 0 could be the indicator of beeing superior to the others. I think they simply are able to operate on their own, not having to report back in a frequent pattern and that makes them more dangerous.
Still the purpose of an intelligence unit is to gather and eveluate information, thus fighting power shouldn't be the main factor. Since this is One Piece they have to have strong fighters to handle themselves though. At least superior to the New World standard, meaning those guys baffled about Luffys possible appearance in the tournament.
In my opinion this whole Haki thing is more a matter of Oda's evolution as an artist, rather than bad canon management. My personal guess is, that he on some point (likely pre-timeskip) simply sought for a cooler way to introduce armourment Haki (like the body becoming black) and to make it more visual to the reader. Therefore the whole concept was overhauled to let him be more freely with it in the future.
My wild guess is, when it comes to answering the big questions, Oda always wants to give 120% and thus the new appearance. If he had the whole concept earlier I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have held it back in the fight between Kizaru and Rayleigh.
Last but not least, a post-timskip Luccy should be on a level with Luffy, Law and Kid, given his potential and beaten opponents not becoming stagnant afterwards. I wouldn't take it too serious that there wasn't that much Haki shown back then, since the whole concept lacked a bit in my opinion. The reason we see it on every corner now is more likely because it is the New World and Oda finally made up his mind on which was he really wants to go.