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by strongest I suppose you meant, the ability to win a to the death battle. CC was left off cause well.. he is dead.
This is my list, of top 5 strongest shinigami.
1. Yumichika Ayasegawa (how anyone can't see this is beyond me)
2. Zennosuke Kurumadani
5. Kurotsuchi Nemu
My real answer:
Though I guess technically, according to Shunsui:
(In that order, which I completely made up and based solely on how they look and how cool I think they are.)
1. Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai
2. Ichigo (Sword attached to hand)
3. Aizen (Hyougyaku)
4. Juha Bach
5. Aizen (Normal)
Had to add a 6, and a 7
6. Shunsui Kyoraku
7. Ichigo (Current Ichigo)
Last edited by Jabman; April 26, 2013 at 12:44 AM.
Ichigo is not a soul reaper -.-
Only going with living shinigami
3: (guess) post training Byakuya
Using the word strongest is vague in this manga. Strongest what? Strongest at performing his assigned tasks? Strongest because of his or her success rate? Strongest fighter? Strongest what? Strongest at winning no matter what? Strongest Kido user? Strongest in reiatsu?
Anyway if it's just the Gotei 13 ex members or current members who are pure shinigami then it would go like this
3+) & Isshin, Gin & possibly Unohana (though her only demostation is near killing Zaraki hundreds of times for 3 days & 3 nights in a Zanjustu fight).
Byakuya would also be here due to his complete skills & also Shinji I think
If it's just whom as the most powerful Reiatsu then it would go like this
1) Aizen, Yamamoto
2) Isshin, Byakuya
3+) & the rest would fall below or around because they are just captain lvl reiatsu
If it's about the strongest sword fighter (Zanjutsu) then it's
1) Aizen, Unohana, Zaraki, Yamamoto,
2+) & the rest would be around or below these four in Zanjutsu
If it's speed then it's
1) Soifon, Yoruichi
2) Yamamoto, Byakuya
3+) the rest would be below
If it's about abilities then it's
4+) & the rest would fall around or under these 3 with Yama being dead last (No point in having such a inconvenient zanpakuto with it's wide range destruction, I'd rather have Omaeda's zanpakuto any day of any week of any mouth of any year, a million times over Yamamoto's zanpakuto).
If it's about the strongest Kido users then
1) Tessai, Hachigen
2) Aizen, Yama, Unohana
3+) Byakuya, Urahara & the rest would follow
The most balanced or rather versatile fighter?
3+) Yama & the rest
Pure brute force
1)Yamamoto (strongest destructive fire zanpakuto & hey Aizen already clarified that but it's not like it needed clarification)
2) Aizen (cuts bankai for breakfast)
5) The rest would fall below
1) Yoruichi, Soifon
3) The rest would fall below
So again the strongest isn't a clear thing to really say. If it's about who would win then what determines who wins is what actually happens in a fight not who is necessary superior in power. Examples of that are
Komamura & Hisagi vs Tousen. Tousen was far superior to these two in power
Gin vs Aizen (cheap shot but that's the point). Aizen was dimensions superior
Fullbring vs Captains & Vc. The momemt Yukio trapped them, they were at his mercy but hey, Captains & Vc had to advance thus Yukio had to be brought down no matter what. Giriko is also a big example, Instead of manipulating the circumstances of time, he want for the brute force approach. Tsukishima is also a small example.
Barragan vs Soifon. He had Soifon even without his release but his power is age & that made him very arrogant & allowed Hachigen to score the win.
Tousen vs Zaraki. Tousen would have one shotted him with bankai but we know it was not to be.
SS vs Sternritters. The Sternritters should have had zero Casualties but once again, If Kubo made things like this, we wouldn't have character's left would we? lol
Some individuals are excluded like Ichigo because they can't be classified as just Soul Reapers (Shinigami, DeathGod). But if he were included then he would steal first place in Speed & agility, he would join first place in pure force, he would be in first for most convenient zanpakuto (imo the best overall zanpakuto in abilities. It's simple but it's simplicity is one of the best qualities, not to mention it's fits really well ), he would destroy the reiatsu ranking by a very very large margin because he has the reiatsu of http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-10.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-11.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-14.html
The reiatsu of Yamamoto (who has about twice of that of a captain), Isshin, Soifon, Yoruichi, Byakuya, Toshiro, Zaraki, Unohana, Shinji, Love, Renji, Ikkaku, Komamura, Tensei, Urahara, Tessai, Ukitake, Shunshi, Rukia, Mayuri, Sasakibe, Omaeda, Matsumoto, Kira, Hasagi, Momo, Nanao, Isane, Iba, Yachiru, Nemu, other division members (considering Hanataro, who is a 7th seat) if not all officers & Possibly Hachigen, Rose, Lisa, Hiyori. WTF, I honestly never though how ridiculous this number would be until now.
Last edited by Kay3795; April 26, 2013 at 09:52 AM.
I think Byakuya is at least as fast as Soifon if not faster. He doesn't use Hakuda, so don't see it often, but he could use Yoruichi's techniques, so I guess he should be higher.Quote:
You really have to like Byakuya, dammmmn. Shinji was shown bruised, probably after fight against sternritter, and looking for more, like his fight was nothing. Without using Hollow mask, he could cut Aizen, something none Shinigami could do before. And Byakuya didn't prove himself to be near that level in any fight. He is now in SP, because he was in coma, right? He got his ass handed to him. Rest of captains did MUCH better in their fights. There's no proof, that As is stronger than any other SR.Quote:
Unohana didn't show much regarding Kido in manga. Urahara, on the other hand, could have killed someone on Yama level with his Kido.Quote:
Byakuya's versatility didn't help him this time, did it? In close combat he could do anything, without his ability he almost died. Shunsui, Shinji, Ukitake, on the other hand are always doing good against enemies, and seem more versatile than him.Quote:
Not like he has ALL of their reiatsu. He has as much reiatsu as he can handle. He has bigger "container" for reiatsu, that Shinigamis are training. Their reiatsu was used to fill it up.Quote:
Except for maybe Byakuya, a Noble, exceptionally talented and supported by the manga, one of the best all around fighters and whom has polished his skill as far as it can get, and regarded as a genius too.
Nobody is twisting facts but you.
The only injury Byakuya ever got was that scratch in the shoulder.
The same Soifon, that was hopeless against Shunko Yoruichi. Nothing in manga indicates, that her speed is something that'd make Yoruichi piss herself. Or maybe you can't say difference between fighting an armed and unarmed opponent? Yoruichi IS faster, but not so fast to dodge every strike with Suzumebachi while blocking/evading other strikes. One has to be significantly faster to dodge eveyrthing. In Suzumebachi's case, blocking isn't an option. We'd get better picture if they both fought on equal ground. Byakuya outrun fastest Espada, using special corpses techniques, that even Yoruichi hasn't used in Soifon's case.Quote:
Nothing to support that claim. He IS genius, he IS strong, but saying he excels in everything by showing random panels is just overkill. His "mastery" in shinigami arts wasn't shown ANYWHERE. He excels in Shunpo, his Bankai is cool, but pure speed defeated it. And after losing that Bankai, his "Shinigami Arts" were totally useless.Quote:
That scratch made him unconscious? Get freakin' real. He lost because he was scared, because relying on ability wasn't an option against them.Quote:
Where? He wasn't stabbed, he used his reiatsu to block.Quote:
Shinji's ability makes his blow irrelevant, but Byakuya's feats based solely on his ability are big feats, that make him a genius. OK.
So what can prove a point? Situation in the middle of the fight? In the end, Byakuya lost. YOU CAN'T SAY, that As Nodt had the most dangerous ability. No basis, so stop with that half-assed arguments, you're better than that, I hope.Quote:
Not like healing kidos are any use in battle. Maybe healing kido works on entirely different basis. Next baseless assumption from you. About Urahara. If it was any other Shinigami, that is few times SLOWER and WEAKER, he could have outsmarted him, ending it up with the same Kido, that would KILL Aizen, as he stated. Aizen was shown pretty good match for Yamamoto, so I'd go with "Urahara's Kido would kill Yamamoto". And even if he couldn't do it, he can use simplier and weaker ones to wound his opponent, result would be the same. He is fast, profficient, can use high level kidos, and can invent his own. Anyone else who can do this? Links, please. Not baseless assumption this time, please.
They had to deal with infinite Cero, Shinji moped the floor with Grimmjow without Shikai, who defeated Ichigo in his Bankai with "Insane speed". The same Ichigo, that defeated Byakuya earlier, when Ichigo was WEAKER. All those three haven't used their Bankais yet. Byakuya showed everything he could.Quote:
Read the manga again. Ukitake deflected Stark's Ceros, both of them fought with Yama and remained unscathed. Switching hands isn't "cheapshoting". Learn some martial art, that require sword fighting. Maybe not a martial art, but learn basis. It's normal, that people get used to some kinds of slashes. Twin-sword-styles prefer backslashes, it is shown in stances, even in Shunsui's fight against SR.Quote:
Their abilities are making them dangerous at every range, double sword makes them deadly in close-combat. Byakuya has safety-zone, that makes him useless in close combat. Only if he uses non-Shikai form can he fight up close.
How do you know, that his reiatsu is SEVERAL TIMES STRONGER? Link, not baseless assumption. Do you remember? Or should I write it bolded with bigger letters?Quote:
I didn't say, that Ichigo's reiatsu isn't stronger than captain's. I said, that his current reiatsu IS NOT a sum of all G13 reiatsu. They put a bit into that sword, not everything. It's not like he has 13 captain-level reiatsu, so he has 13x times captain-class reiatsu.
I don't get the argument about the vr invasion and byakuya. First of all he was one of the few with some one to protect in close proximity. Second, how many had their bankai used against them? Third, he got defeated by his bankai, not much can be gagued about him being weak or strong from that. If anything is to be taken from it it would be that senbonzakura is so strong that even some one not used to it can use it so efficiently that even a captain of byakuya skill can't do much.
Last edited by Sanadan; April 27, 2013 at 02:07 PM.
Aizen is not made of diamonds, only Ichigo can't cut him because he's sword is made out of Play-Doh.
First of all, that bullshit A > B, B > C so A > C logic, which doesn't work in the first place because you're blatantly ignoring the details again, and that you use all to prove that Byakuya has shown everything he could. But you are wrong in every point. Shinji almost beat an unreleased, near dead Grimmjow, and his Shikai is not even a power boosting type; Ichigo was NOT at his best when Grimmjow kicked his ass, which proves that you don't know what happened in that battle; Ichigo was not weaker without his mask, and beating Byakuya when he was at his best does not prove all around that Byukuya has nothing else to prove when even in his later battle with Tsukishima he displayed how he could always become stronger in battle.
I just feel the need to point out that it is pretty clear that Byakuya is one of the more powerful captains. First of all, for him to be Ichigo's first nemesis and for his strength to be referred to repeatedly in the manga, he has to be a person of exceptional ability. Add to that the fact that Kubo often has Byakuya appear alongside Kenpachi and the two threaten and compete with each other suggests a certain standing amongst the captains. While not the youngest captain, he certainly is one of the younger ones and yet he has a well developed bankai which he excels in using. That he uses advanced flash steps he learned from Yoruichi is another sign of his ability. His reiatsu causes fear in even his own advanced level vice captain. He fires kido spells as high as Danku with no incantation and uses a combination of power, ability and sound strategy to undo his opponents.
So, if he is so powerful, why did he lose to As Nodt, one might ask...
The plot reason...It is as simple as this. Kubo had to have a powerful captain taken down by his own bankai to show the destructive force of the VR's attack. If Byakuya was not a masterful fighter, if he did not have exceptional abilities and a beautiful and destructive bankai, having him taken apart like that would have made no sense and would have been a waste of pages. Kubo could have chosen to crucify another fan fave like Hitsugaya, but Toshiro losing wouldn't have created the same sense of WTF because we have seen Hitsugaya lose and lose badly before. We have seen Komamura lose repeatedly. And Soi fon has a ridiculously big and unwieldy bankai that she doesn't even like. Byakuya has only lost to one opponent...Ichigo...nuff said. We are accustomed to him appearing when Rukia needs her ass hauled out of trouble, and he usually delivers flawlessly. So this was Kubo's use of that expectation to unleash the gripping chapter Hear Fear Here, where we watched Byakuya freeze in battle and take no less that three solid hits with Senbonzakura's lovely, devastating bankai power. Definitely not something we'd seen before.
The Reason He Lost...If he was so powerful, why did he freeze like that? Remember that although on the outside Byakuya goes on about following the law and he seems aloof and apathetic, inside he is a very different person. He defied the law to marry Hisana and again to bring Rukia into the family. And after Ichigo defeats him, absolving him of the responsibility of going after Rukia, he repeatedly shows concern, not just for her, but for Renji and Ichigo as well. He is not overt about it, but he finds ways to express it (Like encouraging Renji and Rukia to go and help rescue Orihime.). And remember too, the fact that his first words to Ichigo when Ichigo arrived to find him beaten an dying were "Are Renji and Rukia still alive?" Byakuya has an obsessive need to protect the people he cares about, and he finds ways to do that, even when it violates his obedience to the law. This came into play in his battle with As Nodt.
Byakuya didn't get overpowered by As Nodt's ability. He was taken off guard and injured because of it. It caused him to freeze up, but remember this?
Byakuya clearly overcomes that debilitating fear and attacks As Nodt head on. (Perhaps not the best strategy, but he had been paralyzed by fear and tormented with his fears about Rukia dying, so he was pushed to the brink mentally.) And, recognizing that fear isn't enough to kill Byakuya (as the fear thorns had the lower level fighters), As Nodt turns, not his own Vollstandig or other powers, but the destructive power of Byakuya's own bankai on him. That puts Byakuya on his knees, but he isn't done yet. Faced then with a direct threat to Renji, someone he was shown to care deeply about, he gets up and attacks with his shikai, even knowing it isn't enough to stop his bankai. It appears to take two more hits with that bankai to put him down. Remember when Renji fought him, he was nearly killed with one hit with that same bankai (Remember also that Byakuya has had more than 17 months of training to improve it since he fought Renji.) This is not a battle in which a lower level captain falls, it is a heretofore exceptional captain, one of the most feared, falling to a bankai that, arguably, would have destroyed Ichigo if not for the interference of his inner hollow in his battle with Byakuya. Byakuya is a powerful captain, who in the fullbring arc showed that he still has the ability to grow as a fighter.
http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/472/18 (LOL, ends with a reference to his strength, no less!)
He may not be THE most powerful among the captains, but he is ONE OF the most powerful captains, a point the manga has reinforced throughout. Byakuya's battle with As Nodt was the only thing I have ever read that had feelings of absolute terror making my heart pound and my knees feel weak while I was reading. The reason that worked was because he wasn't expected to be so thoroughly undone. I think Kubo did an excellent job of showing the VR's power by completely unhinging a character who we had been led to believe was so strong. I can't think of another captain who would have functioned so well in that role.
Reread that fight. It was Soifon who activated it first. She was explaining it when Yoruichi activated it (It DOES have a name and then...), she nullified Soifon's attacks and defeated her. It's not like she was faster in activating it.
Byakuya is shown as one who uses Kido in battles. Do you know, if others suck at it? They fight differently.
Swordmanship? Kyoraku is far better swordman. And don't even bring up Stark fight, because you don't understand anything about mutu or sword fighting. I don't like, when people discuss on topics they only believe they know something, because they read the damn manga...
Still nothing to indicate, that he is above other captains. Or above senior captains. It's just sound more and more ridicoulous, that he is closest to Yama and Aizen level in Shinigami Mastery. xD
He is later UNSCATHED, alive and kickin'. Not to mention, that he couldn't really switch, he was making them believe he was there. That fight was completely rigged and fake. But you really want to make Soifon's attack her big feat? He wanted them to let their guard down, he made them believe they cut him.
That logic works to judge simple matters, not people overall. You read somewhere, that this logic is bad and started to write it everywhere, like a kid, that was told, that God exists. He doesn't know why, but he still says it and believes it.Quote:
We discussed it before. They were burnt just by being there, but they got no cuts. And I don't believe they were serious. They were hesitant to use even Shikai, let alone fight. Yama was serious, as he values rules, and his past is now known to us. He is not so gentle, he is the same person, that found peace in few people and some rules, that he believes in. If those people betrayed him, the only thing he can value are rules, so he'd follow them, as they gave him steady and peaceful life.
Last edited by Duniak; April 29, 2013 at 08:25 AM.