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Nope, I use the term genius in Naruto as a broader concept then we do here. The physical attributes and how they are used are a huge and diverse part in Naruto, much more then here so being able to exell physically would be a genius attribute.
Naruto was unable to show his potential at a young age, even though he learned Kage bunshin in like an hour beause the Kyuubi chakra was disrupting his own. Later on Orochimarus seal was holding him back.
Lee was a genius, not everyone can open the gates, that was a feat that had Kakashi commenting on it to begin with. The rest of his ability, the speed and so on is a result of his hard work, but as it is stated in the manga it is hard to believe that people just by working as hard as Lee can get tot he same level.
Geniuses are unique, they are rare. It seems cheap and pointless to broaden the criteria just so you could include Naruto in that category.
Naruto certainly is unique, and he has talent, but I could never consider him a genius. Even if we ignore the fact that he's as dumb as rocks, and go with the idea that genius is the ability to have a great aptitude at something, that is ignoring the fact that Naruto achieved everything he has with much difficulty and can't do it in convectional ways that normal people can.
I feel strongly about this because if Naruto is suddenly a genius, it goes against everything he stood for and everything that made him Naruto. Naruto was able to be great despite his faults, and despite not being a genius. He could beat the geniuses with hard work and grit, and didn't need to be smart, or naturally talented to do so.
Naruto is unique, his chakra pool, even when worked against is insane, he is a quick learner even if dull in the head, this can only be becaus eof his physical attributes. No one is like Naruto. Naruto despite being dumb as a brick manages trough physical adaptation do what no one has done before. Despite havig the odds stacked against him he does the very same thing. Id definently call him a genius.
Just because he has a different learning process does not exlude him from being a genius and I can't see anyone more rare them him in this manga, except the god of Shinobi and the sage.
Much of what Naruto has been able to accomplish is thanks to the Kyuubi, something he was not born with, needed help taming, and then later it let him use it's power. The odds are stacked against him, and yet he was also given a gift unlike any there is in the manga.
Take away the Kyuubi from Naruto and he could have never created FRS, as he needed the stamina the Kyuubi gave him to create the clones needed for the training.
I've wanted for years for Naruto to do something on his own, but every time it looks like he's going to succeed by himself, he falls on his face and needs help. These are facts, that aren't my opinion. The geniuses of this manga do many things with little to no help from others. Naruto constantly gets hand held through everything, and that's Kishi's fault for writing his character that way.
As for his learning process, it's barely a learning process at all. Having things broken down so simply isn't a sign of an intelligence but a sign of stupidity. I fully understand there are different ways to learn, but not like this. If anything he learns by doing, but that is true for everyone.
He even accepts this fact himself. For all the praise he's been given no one has called him a genius. And despite him being a cocky individual, he's always said he isn't smart.
Then let's take Sasuke's sharingan away, Neji's b, Shino's bugs and so on... They all had "gifts" from their parants. Trough genetics or other ways but all of them count as gifts... What Naruto was able to do with Kurama is 100% feat for him.Quote:
Hell Sasuke gained MS and EMS because his BRO DIED FOR HIM....
Naruto is not really a genius if we go by the manga. Naruto was the hard working type of underdog guy.
Hell read what JMan and Oro are stating about him.
Thing is going by JMan this is not the most importat aptitude of a shinobi:
Now going by the above and the fact that nobody aside for JMan(resurecting himself from death for Naruto) himself can get close to Naruto's "never give up" stuff I gues Naruto is the best shinobi in the world.
Who cares if he is a genius or not. That is not what makes me love his caracter. Him never giving up on his frids is what makes me LOVE his caracter...
To sum it up... THIS IS WHAT I LOVE ABOUT NARUTO:
Yeah don't care for his versatility, how many jutsus he has or anything of this stuff. He is not a genius that the manga would grant him but he is a genius in my book.
Hell learning SC tech in a night, mastering Rasengan in 1 week (or whatever it was), mastering SM like NOBODY before him, gaining Kyuubi's trust and a few other events should grant him the "genius" title but the manga does not exacly agrees...
Last edited by xXan; May 20, 2013 at 03:05 AM.
but then again, why "using in base mode" is important again? is Naruto not capable of using Sage mode or Kyuubi mode? so far i can remember, he is.
The Kyuubi is a not a genetic gift, it was sealed into Naruto. The Kyuubi is as much a part of Naruto's power as it was Madara's. Only difference was that Madara went out and captured the Kyuubi, bent it to his will, and made it his personal summon.
The point I was making, was that the Kyuubi is what led to Naruto being able to create FRS. And the only way he was able to utilize the Kyuubi's power to do so was to have Tenzou there helping him. That had nothing to do with his intelligence, his hard work, or his linage.
At the time, Naruto wasn't using his own power to control the Kyuubi, Tenzou was. So basically Naruto had a massive chakra pool being monitored by an outside source (Tenzou) in which he used the most hax training method in the world.
I'll give Naruto credit for learning Kage Bushin in one night. For mastering Sage Mode. For a finding a way to do Rasengan (with a clone) in a way unique to him (because he lacks the skill to do it the right way).
But I won't give him as much credit as everyone else for creating FRS. It wasn't his idea, he showed massive stupidity through the entire process, and he needed a lot of help from Kakashi, the Kyuubi, and Tenzou to complete it. Was it impressive? Yes, but not genius worthy in the slightest bit by the manga standards or by real life ones.
Same thing goes for his two part mastery of the Kyuubi. First he had help from Bee and his mother, and then the Kyuubi simply gave him power.
I wanted Naruto to kick the Kyuubi's ass by himself, but he had to be fucking handheld like always through the entire process.
---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------
And who knows if he'll have the Kyuubi forever? He only recently got the Kyuubi mode which allows him to spam everything.
The original point of this thread, and my argument that was only having FRS was and can be a hindrance to Naruto. If he had more variety he wouldn't have always needed people to save his ass in the past, and could have had defensive and AOE attacks to help in battle.
I believe Naruto needs some basic versatile win techs that does
- precise damage
- propel hisself or others
- fast initiation and damage
- adds cutting power to his kunai and other bladed weapons
- defensive wind ability
- a fuuton shield (instead of enhancing speed and defense like raiton shield it enhances his attacks and defense by having the wind chakra surrounding him slice victims on impact)
Just want to remind everyone who's claiming Naruto can use the FRS effectively without Sage Mode or Chakra Mode, that they're wrong. Naruto's FRS only stays active for 2 seconds before dissipating (in base mode). Meaning he has to be literally on top of his foe so that they can't dodge in time.
Naruto needs more wind techniques, but I think it's too late in the manga. He should've learned them long ago, because the FRS is NOT versatile. It's either a projectile explosive/cutting attack... or it's a close range explosive/cutting attack. Naruto used it to block spikes from the Juubi, which was a moment of ingenuity... but for the chakra cost you're not gonna see him pop an FRS any time someone's throwing their own projectiles at them. Not to mention, if someone throws an S-rank katon at him, he's just gonna flash-fry himself.
Also, clones. Naruto can't make dozens of FRS in Base Mode. He can make dozens of clones with Chou Odama Rasengan, and then ONE clone with an FRS (like he did against Kurama), but he doesn't have the chakra for dozens of FRS at the same time.
The perfect time to learn a whole new repertoire of jutsus was hi 2 years with jiraiya an his sage mode training, but unfortunately each training only brought a new rasengan variant. Naruto is one of my fav characters (more so part 1) and in fact te main character but he has so much wasted potential that kishi failed to present
Blame it on Kishimoto. Pretty much every shounen manga keeps the main character limited in options for whatever reason. Goku had Kamehameha, Spirit Bomb, and then everything else was just powerups. Ichigo had Getsuga Tenshou... and then powerups. Yusuke had Spirit Gun, Shotgun, and... I think that was it.
I think it's because they want fans to be impressed with their willpower and emotion more than their attacks. This is also why their attack is most often just a basic full on offensive attack with no trick to it.
ugh pretty much. I dont understand why shounen heroes have to have this pattern and same personality characteristics. Its always been something that has irrattated me but it is what it is
I want naruto to infuse his wind nature to his bijuudama.
Then he must learn on how to use the shuriken kage bunshin.
Bijuushuriken + shuriken bunshin = The best of the best combination attack of all time.
---------- Post added at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------
jiraya always been sucks as teacher and naruto really not hard worker
---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 AM ----------
Last edited by flow like; May 21, 2013 at 01:26 AM.
Did you know that Chidori/Raikiri are an assassination jutsu? If those CHICHICHICHI that you can hear from a mile away can be considered the tools of an assassin i gues FRS is leaps and bounds above that :P.Quote:
Now depending on the enemy FRS could be needed. Example would be Kakuzu.
I was just pointing how they all got diferent types of "gifts".Quote:
And who exacly said it was a genetic gift? Who cares really? IT WAS A GIFT no different then Sasuke's special clan eyes... How about Madara and mokuton? Kabuto and the stolen power from a ton of people... Nagato's eyes who are actualy Madara's? In 1 form or the other all of them are "gifts". Sasuke's parents passed said gift trough genes and Minato trough hard work, sacrifice and faith in his son. If anything Minato's "gift" counts a ton more...Quote:
Now point is Kurama is a power he can use. How this gift got to him is not really relevant.
I made no claims about this. Of course Naruto had help in life. I see no problems there. It takes a great man to accept to can't do it all alone and to lean on others to add to what you don't have.Quote:
it was not a brain type of achivement that is true. It was more like trial and error type of training. Minato would probably learn FRS asuming he would have had the time.Quote:
I would agree that training does not show Naruto as a genius. Just a guy with a TON of time to do trial and error to the point he got it right.
He did show crazy power in SM to fight the Kyuubi even if he had help.Quote:
You also need to take into account that he did not simply gave him power. Naruto had to do the imposible and change Kyuubi's heart first. That was a work of genius just not in the sense of brainpower, skill or something like that. Naruto is a genius when it comes to changing people. He has a special "power" there.
And i have no problem there. I don't want Naruto to be this God type of caracter. I like him needing help and leaning on his friends. Something that even Itachi pointed out that he needs to do (when Naruto wanted to solo the war).Quote:
Considering what happened to Hashirama's face we don't know the specifics of his SM.Quote:
Take Kabuto (you mencioned him yourself) he was able to master SM by "stealing" power from other people. Naruto is the only one we know that mastered it in a "fair" (no idea if its the right word here) way. Even asuming Hashirama has the same level of it then we have 2. Still good enough for me :P
Last edited by xXan; May 21, 2013 at 02:20 AM.