Remember the Itachi Kisame arc? Also, the save Gaara arc when Itachi's clone showed up, Itachi's flashback of Oro's bodysteal jutsu and Sasuke's comment to Oro during the same jutsu? Apparently there's a whole manual going around in the ninja world on how to fight a Sharingan user. "Don't fight one when you're one your own", "all your jutsu are useless before these eyes".
Sure the Senju may have awesome life force and stamina, but how do you "outlast" being stabbed while under a genjutsu? How do you counter the fact that your own jutsu are being copied and turned against you (which can be done as long as the Sharingan user is at about the same level or higher, take Kakashi vs Zabuza)? Kishi has failed to provide any answer to this. He has done too much Sharingan hyping in the past and now he's stuck with a clan that is supposedly superior to Uchiha yet without any justifiable explanation for it. Yes you can claim "Senju never fought alone", but don't tell me they constantly had to disrupt eachother's chakra flows while Uchiha were casting genjutsu all over the place.
By analogy, the senju are all about having the bigger car. Bigger tank, one that lasts longer. Winning the race that way. Uchiha, at least as far as the evidence available to us (Itachi and Sasuke), relatively small chakra capacities, they tire quickly, they make up for it with nifty tricks. Stealth, genjutsu without you realizing it, copying, turning your own jutsu against you. They're not about having the bigger car, they're about sabotaging the opponent's car (hence, Oro can have the awesomest jutsu and chakra capacity, it makes no difference before Itachi). Unless Kishi starts explaining how large stamina or even awesome jutsu can help with not being killed while under genjutsu that is incredibly easy to cast and hard to notice and without a Bijuu inside to help out, I'm calling BS.
Also, why hasn't he said shit about the whole copy thing in ages? It's all about MS nowadays. It's kinda like kaio-ken suddenly not being "a thing" anymore after we turn super sayan.
Last edited by Xrayz0r; June 14, 2013 at 06:07 PM.
The senju is the mortal enemy of the uchiha for so many years. So I think it's common sense to assume that they know a bunch of ways on how to deal the uchiha's genjutsu. And the fact that the senju knows how the sharingan awaken and how it really works. So yea, the sharingan's genjutsu never gave the uchiha an adge to the senju.
Don't fight an uchiha one on one'' is chiyo's opinion. It was her opinion /knowledge to the uchiha. So clearly, she knows nothing on how to deal the sharingan's genjutsu all alone.
Anyway: Uchiha clan has been hype more then any other clan including the Senju. They are deadly as kish makes them out to be, they just face much stronger opponents nowadays, and all the great ninjas plan for fighting a uchiha.
Also, the Uchiha clan doesn't have a small chakra supply, it's rather large.
well he's not entirely wrong. I clearly remember gai stating he could battle an uchiha by looking ay their feet. Sure, I know that when that was said he didn't account for techniques such as amaterasu or kamui. But in the end, a mangekyou sharing was/is rare.
So it is possible to battle them one on one if you know how and have the right set of tools to pull it of. Minato and jiraiya being pretty good examples.
Well, remember that it's also stated by Kakashi that "Only Gai could ever fight like that". It takes a godly taijutsu expert to pull off that feat.Originally Posted by scandalous
Basically, we have to remember that the Uchiha clan is the clan that cut a swathe through every clan out there aside form the Senju. Just like how Minato had a "flee on sight" order given to enemy village's ninja because no one knew how to deal with it except kage level opponents, Chiyou's rule is common knowledge to any "normal" ninja because they were all dropping like flies and were obviously trying to figure out a way to... not drop like flies. Lol.
PIS. That's literally it. It sounds like an excuse a butthurt fan would say, but it's true. He makes characters forget abilities in their employ inorder make fights go down the way he wants them to. It's the same reason why Deidara didn't go C0 the first moment he was revived as an Edo Tensei zombie.Originally Posted by Xrayz0r
Infact the only character Kishimoto allowed to pull a "genjutsu+oneshot combo was Madara (when he first started fighting against those fodder), and that's because he's a Big Bad who needed to be shown with the power to easily defeat chuunin level ninja as if they were nothing.
As I stated, the great ninjas plan for fighting a Uchiha, is is no exception. Kakashi was his rival and he has the sharingan, Gai specifically train himself to fight by looking at feet only for the sake of fighting the sharingan.
Really what chiyo said is correct. Either you train yourself to fight sharingan or have back up.
I said that it was chiyo's opinion, but it doesn't really mean that its not a fact.
It's like I've never read anyone in naruto who said that than chiyo. And chiyo stated that based from her experienced. So she got some truth from that.
And that reply is specifically for the OP who just said that it was the ninja world's manual on how to fight a sharingan. I'm just pointing that out that the manga clearly shown that ''don't fight an uchiha on one on one'' is chiyo's opinion.
granny chiyo says if its one on one dont even attempt to fight a sharingan
And as we saw throughout the manga, one-on-one fight against Sharingan is possible.
True, but it was always extremely exceptional ninja who managed to do this, making them the exception to the rule. Either they had a gross amount of chakra to outlast chakra taxing MS jutsu, or their physical speed was godly to the point that the Sharingan couldn't even follow it. You won't find two ninja of equal skill and speed, one with the Sharingan, and see them fight to a standstill. On the contrary, the non-Uchiha ninja would have to resort to clones to trick the Sharingan, bijuu shroud speeds, or sheer stamina to outlast them.
Then again, Naruto used that logic against Itachi and it didn't help in the slightest, lmao.
1. not all Uchiha had Mangekyo.
2. Could be different back during the era of strife, but it's been said Sharingan was rare among the Uchiha.
3. Senju could have double-teamed an Uchiha.
4. Senju fought more non-Sharingan Uchiha than they did Sharingan Uchiha.
Different reasons as to why Senju could have beaten Uchiha.
Please notice that this was a wood clone using sharingan genjutsu, implying that all of them can use it, and so he could spam them against the alliance at any time, protected by susanoo from physical attacks, and rinne chakra drain from ninjutsu.
Last edited by winterwyrm; June 15, 2013 at 01:03 AM.
Like I already said many times: Kishi has overpowered Genjutsu to the point were it becomes inconvenient for his storytelling, and thus characters suddely forget about their abilities (aka P.I.S). Otherwise most fights would end in a matter of seconds without the characters even moving.
Obito is the prime example for this. He has Genjutsu to put people into a trance like paralysis (Fuu and Torune) or can outright kill a person (Konan). Yet he never even tries to use it in battle. Kishi could at least come up with some cheap explanation, like that its hard to control a moving persons chakra or something and that only extremely skilled individuals like Itachi would be capable to pull it off.
But apparantly he doesn't give a crap about such details, so we have to make up our own explanations like "Obito didn't use Genjutsu on Minato because he was already controling the Kyuubi" or "That his mask was overshadowing his eye, making Genjutsu only possible at very close range". Problem is there are tons of situations when not even such explanations are possible, like in case of Madara.
I think it's Itachi's genjutsu that was portrayed as almost unbeatable, although Orochimaru was still able to try and break out. I don't see what's impossible about believing that Tobi couldn't use genjutsu on Minato because he was controlling the Kyuubi, which arguably needs a lot of focus/control. I'm not sure if genjutsu can outright kill a person, but I'm assuming that the genjutsu was Izanagi. Genjutsu like that could have a high price to pay, while paralysis genjutsu could require lots of concentration or something that Tobi is incapable of without time.
And I think Kishi did in Part I or Part II in Naruto's genjutsu breaking flashback. He did say exceptional chakra control was required, which few lack. Tobi probably can't control his chakra well enough to use genjutsu on the fly, he needs to concentrate. People like Kakashi and Itachi are already extremely skilled at chakra control, and even they usually stand still when doing genjutsu.
Dunno about Madara, but likely because he's on the move? But everything about him is basically plot, considering he can summon meteors after meteors or use perfect Susano'o and commit a mass murder before you can say 'onomatopoeia.' If he was allowed to go all out, the Alliance wouldn't have stood a chance, and I'm willing to bet Naruto would have lost within ten minutes of Madara joining the fray.
Of course, it also begs the question why Naruto doesn't use his intense speed to move unpredictably or zigzag, whatever is harder for Sharingan to follow. He attacks his opponents in a beeline movement, just goes straight at them and lets them react when he could probably be hella harder to see or keep track of. Hell, even the Kyuubi chakra arms can't be predicted by the Sharingan, which Naruto should know, so why not take advantage of that? Though, Sasuke did comment on the unpredictability in his mind, not out loud.