What? He fought with his sword the entire fight. And it doesn't matter if you like the fact that Ichigo completely curbstomped him with the random power-up, that's how it is. He dominated him with pure brute force and physical power and that's that.Quote:
In the end this is what it boils down too. Also remember when Gin was talking about Aizen? He said that if Kyoka Suigetsu was everything in Aizens power then many people would defeat him by now. The fact was that Aizen was a monster when it came to his physical abilities. He was fast, strong and had insane defenses. He was able to grab Ichigos bankai at SS with his mere fingers.
Not to mention it's common logic that in shonen mangas "The more you can destroy, the stronger you are"
He didnt mean sword fighting. He meant unseal his zanpakuto aginst Ichigo so that he could use his illusions.
It's not that he didn't unseal it. He was already at full power, and he went even further by changing into the multi-headed monster which puked nuclear explosions. As Yamamoto and Aizen said, a certain Kiddo or ability won't work if your enemy outclasses you in power.
No, you're still mistaken. He isnt saying that Aizen's physical power was held back because his sword wasnt used. Hes saying Kyouka Suigetsu's illusions would have given Aizen the win without needing to match Ichigo in power. He's literally saying power would'nt have mattered. And he's right.
EDIT: She I mean. She's right, lol.
Last edited by ninjabot; June 21, 2014 at 06:55 PM.
And I'm saying that Kyoka suigetsu wouldn't work on Ichigo because he outclassed him in power. When someone is way more powerful than someone else nothing you can use at him will work.
"A battle between shinigami is a battle between spiritual pressure, I can easily overwhelm your ability with my spiritual pressure".
As such if someone is far stronger than another all his attacks, kiddo, special abilities will be useless. And because of that Ichigo which was far stronger than butterfly AIzen cancelled out his sword with his mere fingers, his kiddo with a simple swing of his hand and would definitely cancel out Kyoka Suigetsu ASSUMING that Aizen could even use it on his ascended form.
It's a bold assumption to claim that Ichigo would be able to repel the power of an illusion-type Zanpakuto, knowing that Captain-Commander, who was stronger than Aizen did not even consider such an option. An altering of senses cannot possibly be fought with.
But we are straying further off the topic, so, I'll stop the discussion here. I have made my points, anyway, so, I don't have much else to further elaborate on.
Certain things won't work against a significantly higher power, but if it was that simple Hisagi wouldn't have been able to push his sword through Tousen's neck and Gin wouldn't have been able to burn a hole through Aizen's chest. And since I presume this is comparing Byakuya to Zaraki I don't think Byakuya is so weak that a barrage from his Bankai wouldn't even scratch Zaraki. Gremmy, whose body couldn't even sustain Zaraki's level of power was able to rough him up quite well even before the vacuum of space thing.
Last edited by NoOneInParticular; June 21, 2014 at 06:07 PM.
Regarding Byakuya's power, which is the topic of this thread, he seems to have got a considerable power boost considering that his shikai is now as powerful as his old bankai. I'm not sure how and why he managed to improve his abilities to this extent since he had already mastered his bankai and I suppose further improvement would take centuries but the crux of the matter is he is very powerful now, I think his fight against these sternritters will allow us to make a more accurate estimate.
You're taking that sentence WAY too seriously. If it was as you say then Aizen's illusions would never have worked on Yamamoto, and Tousen's Bankai wouldn't have worked on Kenpachi (though the gap in power between those two was practically negligible).Originally Posted by ANImouz
Also he didn't "cancel out" his sword. He blocked it. What happened there was a clear example of power, but it was also 100% irrelevant, because that show of power didn't mean the illusions wouldn't have worked (once again, if they work on Yama, they'll work on Ichigo). All it was, was one amount of physical power outclassing another.
Well, assuming they fight the remaining stern riter with the shinigami that are there the only alternative they have is that byakuya takes a leading role in the whole thing as a direct countermeasure against at least a couple of stern riter. Renji is insanely strong but he know he is under the effect of nanana's ability already which will without a doubt limit him soon. Ikkaku and hisagi will likely do something with their bankai but they are still only VC class people, they do not actually have the power to hold on their own. Rukia is perhaps the other big asset here considering everything. However its likely that she still can't use her full power just yet considering how strainful even her shikai is. All in all, under the assumption that no one else shows up byakuya is the one that is going to have to handle the bulk of the stern riter and I would think he is up for it.
As far as aizen goes, I am not sure how the reiatsu clash thing would go. Its plausible there is an amount of power that would be able to repel the illusion however who would have that? I don't think even yamamoto would have that much power considering the sheer volume of reiatsu aizen himself had. If anything I would argue that aizen probably was pretty close with the main difference being that yamamoto's zampakuto abilities did have offensive more flashy applications while aizen did not have that luxury.
From the latest chapter Byakuya got a major power up indeed from the RR training.
5 v 1 against Volstandig activated SR and he has disabled/killed 3 of them with the remaining two stating the main reason they are still around is due to their abilities.
I honestly don't know if Byakuya has activated Bankai though or is he still in Shikai?
Incidentally I am really hopeful that Byakuya that the new skills Byakuya has picked up involve using Senbozakura better. Seriously imagine what would happen if instead of just slashing the skin a few of those million petals actually went inside his opponent and did direct internal damage? or if instead he just concentrated on sending his blades for vulnerable areas like eyes (as suggested by Kenpachi), mouth, neck etc?
From the chapter it is hard to tell if he is only at shikai. The cape completely covers his arms so we can't see if he is holding a sword. I do wonder though, how exactly did he refine his control over his sword? No matter how I look at it at worst he started his royal training with decades of experience with his sword over what renji and rukia have now. So his training in that regard can't have been the same. It would make sense that he did something similar to what yamamoto did with his own bankai over the past 1000 years. However how would such refinement, if at all possible, translate to byakuya? For yamamoto it was about the extent to which he could compress his flames and how he could maintain them in such a compressed state. Royd made the point that yamamoto's bankai released a great flame 1000 years ago and what we saw today is that now it compressed the flame but did not release it which enhanced his power further.
The only instance when byakuya has actually used his bankai to its fullest is when he fought ichigo. Other than that he seems to have only used his basic bankai form, the petals thing. Now, if we assume the true form of his bankai is not that of the petals but rather the compression thing he did with senkei and hakuteiken then the direction he can go is basically the same as yamamoto's. However that is a tad boring, its repetitive. Perhaps the true focus of his shikai and bankai is that he is able to compress them AND decompress them to whatever extent he wants? So the reason his shikai is so massive nowadays is that he could decompress it into more, weaker, petals. So he could potentially compress it again and enhance his offensive power. And then the same principle applies to bankai which could also potentially be as massive or minuscule as he wants.
Kubo went out of his way to have Byakuya describe how he analyzed Senbonzakura and reached a new understanding of it's abilities, so he is most likely setting up a reveal for a new and improved Senbonzakura Kageyoshi.
Going by Byakuya's words, it seemed as if it was more of a realization more than anything and he went from there. Like looking at something from a different perspective rather than outright training, the change in perspective in Byakuya's case being a lack of a Bankai. So he probably didn't need to train in that sense like Renji and Rukia, rather, all he needed to do was take what he knew and what he now understood and put it into action.
After thinking about Senbonzakura's abilities, I would hazard a guess and say that, in the case of his Shikai, when he said he needed to take a look at the larger picture, he probably meant that literally. Byakuya probably only thought of his as blade as just one cherry blossom tree and thus, only limited himself to the petals from that one tree. In actuality though, he had an entire grove of cherry blossoms to pull from, as the name of his Zanpakuto implies.
As for his Bankai, back when he fought Byakuya did indeed say that the Senkei form of his Bankai, was the true form, so I am assuming his Bankai will now skip the petals entirely and mostly be based on an improved version of this. Probably a type of combination between it and Hakuteiken. Thinking about it now, it'll probably be a sort of deal where he literally becomes a "humanized" blade, where he can use his body to cut and slice as if he himself were the sword.
Last edited by eefrit; September 01, 2014 at 05:19 PM.
I don't think there will be two different principles involved in bankai and shikai.... Zampakuto abilities in those are usually the same and what changes is mostly the scale and to a limited scale the scope. With byakuya in particular shikai and bankai are basically the exact same thing. Its likely that whatever it is he figured out for his shikai will apply in a grander scale to his bankai. Realistically speaking byakuya did not even have his zampakuto spirit with him when he took that look at his shikai and whatnot. He can't possibly have developed his bankai if it involved a different principle for what applies to his shikai. On the other hand if whatever he figured out applies somehow to his bankai it can work.
Perhaps it will be something opposite to what ichigo has done for the most part with his sword? Ishin made the point back when ichigo was training for FGT that ichigo was basically forcing stuff out of his sword. During the training he had to communicate with his sword and whatnot. So perhaps this is a case of him figuring out stuff he couldn't get out of communicating with his sword for whatever reason, stuff he had to take from the blade forcefully.