Madara/other random Uchiha
Other (please specify)
It's plausible that both of them can obtain rinnegan at this point since to take down obito now it must take another power up for both of them but the reasons why both might achieve rinnegan can be different.
Naruto might obtain it because it's very possible that once he took every biju chakra he might have a lot of rikkudou chakra inside him too and the result of using rikkudou chakra might be the awakening of the rinnegan.i think when rikkudou divided juubi from ichibi to kyuubi he placed some of his chakra in every one of them.
Sasuke will surely obtain rinnegan from uchiha+senju cells combination.oro has hashirama cells implanted on himselfe so why not implanting some on sasuke too? since he already knew the secrets of the rinnegan when sasuke was his subordinate
I think it might end up different
my theory is naruto gets all the tailed beast and becomes ''the body''
sasuke gets rinnengan and becomes ''the spirit''
together with their combined powers they essentially become the sage in a sense( no fusion dance) and they put an end to the long hate between senju and uchiha. thus putting an end to the war and bringing an era of peace with sasuke as hokage and naruto traveling spreading peace becoming the new sage and representing the world as its leader.
sasuke gets fataly injured and gives naruto his eyes making him into the sage and bringing his resolve for world peace to an absolute peak enabling him to defeat juubito and claim his place as hokage
kishi already made him the messiah so i can picture something along these lines happening
Well, I think theories are welcome, but many of you fail to realize how Sasuke cannot combine with Naruto. Sasuke is not going to be good, and you probably have seen some hint. Concerning their power, I hate every theory that seek to tie Naruto's fate to Sasuke, and this is my opinion.
Rikudo's power is not related to Rinnegan. Rikudo had the body and the spirit to perform six path technique, but Banbusu SOZO ( or creation of all things), Izanagi were possible to Rikudo because of Juubi chakra. In fact, I think Juubi contributed to Rinnegan as well. Thus, it is clear that only a Jinchuriki will attain Rikudo's level of power. In addition, Naruto is the only Sennin as for now among all of the candidate. Plus, Juubi clearly shown that Naruto is actually SO6P on his own. One of my strongest claim is that when things will get serious, Naruto's power will scale too high to the point that Sasuke will lose his mind again.
Aside from the fact that the series has gone out of it's way to connect Naruto and Sasuke's fates, saying Sasuke won't be good is just silly.
The Rikudou Sennin's power is directly connected to the Rinnegan. It's been spelled out several times and the entire reason the main villains have gone out of their way to claim it. Izanagi has nothing to do with the Juubi's chakra, and clearly the Rikudou Sennin already had plenty of power if he was capable of going toe to toe with the Juubi alone. And Juubi has shown no such thing.
Even though I want to write I don't care how it ends, I can't because I do.
That's all I'm waiting for. Depending how it ends or what happens to those two, will destroy every last
Hope or anything good I have to say about this manga. I wish Kish still had a shred of kind ness in his
This is factually inaccurate. Rinnegan is stated to be the eyes of Rikudou Sennin. It is the symbol of his spiritual energy and we even see him shown in the manga to have Rinnegan for eyes. This is why characters with the Rinnegan are stated to be comparable to Rikudou Sennin, or "one of the 6 paths". Because the Rinnegan is the embodiment of all of Rikudou Sennin's spiritual powers.Originally Posted by so6pww
Again, you're deliberately splitting the story of Rikudou Sennin in half because you don't want to accept that Naruto will never equal, nor surpass Rikudou Sennin aslong as he only has half of the puzzle: the physical half. He can NOT surpass him without the Rinnegan. Banbutsu Souzou requires spiritual energy to give shape to an object, and physical energy to give life to that object. Thus, it can not be replicated without Rikudou Sennin's spiritual energy. And his spiritual energy comes from the Rinnegan. Which Naruto doesn't have.Quote:
Izanagi is canon proof of this, as it's a downgraded version of Banbutsu Souzou. One can not use Izanagi without both the Sharingan (spiritual energy received from Rikudou Sennin) and Senju dna (physical energy passed down from Rikudou Sennin). If Banbutsu Souzou was only usable with the power of the Juubi, then Izanagi would only be usable with the power of the other Bijuu.
But we know for a canon fact that all that is required is Senju DNA and the Sharingan.
All of this is baseless, because we've already seen ninja perform Rikudou Sennin-like feats without the aid of Bijuu (but ALWAYS with the aid of either the Sharingan, Rinnegan, or Senju DNA). This is just an attempt to distance yourself from the truth, because you hate knowing that Naruto needs Sasuke.Quote:
But, as for the original question posed by the thread creator, I think that if Banbutsu Souzou is to take ay effect in this story then Sasuke would have to have the Rinnegan. Which is horrible because I fucking hate the Rinnegan. Still, if Naruto is going to surpass Rikudou Sennin (which he actually doesn't even have to do), he will need either a ninja aiding him with the Rinnegan, or a Rinnegan.
What if Naruto and Sasuke kissing by accident at the beginning of the series was enough for the dna swapping necessity of the rinnegan? lol just a thought
1. The most denied fact, but the most tangile one: Kyuubi's speech when Naruto sealed him.
This is clear because Kyuubi after seeing the seal identified it (or Naruto) as the Rikudo. Some translations even say " This is the sage of six path's ...". No matter how you read it, it either mean that NAruto is acting as Rikudo would, or the Jutsu Naruto perform was one of Rikudo's six path techs. Giving your own explaination of what is written is a denial, and clearly, Naruto does not have the Rinnegan, but Kyuubi's chakra.
2. Hints from Madara teaching Obito the six path techniques, or Rikudo Jutsus
This page explained all Madara's knowledge of Rikudo's power.
First, Madara claimed that Rinnegan can open only if you have the power of Uchiha and Senju. This can be seen as a reconstruction of Rikudo's power, but there is a fact that we should not forget. When someone have been Jinchuriki for along time, his own DNA is affected by the chakra of the tailed beast, or you can say his chakra is mixed with that of the Bijus. Thus, Rikudo's power has transmitted to Uchiha and Senju is clearly an hybrid of his original power and Juubi's power. Moreover, we can see in Juubi's eyes that both Sharingan and Rinnegan pattern are present. Ignoring these fact is plain denial and fanboyism.
Second, without Rinnegan, one can control Gedo Mazou. Thus actually, a certain degree of combination of Senju+Uchiha that does not open the Rinnegan can still control the body of the Juubi, but with some imperfection. This is very interesting, and prove that even if Rikudo did not have Rinnegan, he could still control Juubi's body. The most intersting part is that Rinnegan allow to control the juubi's body (Gedo Mazou) perfectly. This make sense because we have seen that both Rinnegan and Sharingan pattern are in Juubi's eyes. If they are the symbol of his chakra, then Rinnegan allowing perfect control of his body make sense since it means that after taking Juubi's chakra, Rikudo obtained part of his eyes (Just as Naruto's eyes turn Kyuuibish), and has now enough power to control him.
Third, at the lower right corner, Madara stated that he will teach Obito the forbidden Jutsu of the Uchiha and the Rikudo Jutsu or six path techniques. How did Madara teach Obito without any of them having Rinnegan, if we assume that Rinnegan is a requirement? My opinion is that only basic Senju+Uchiha (without Juubi's chakra) is the requirement. Rikudo likely did not have Rinnegan because it would be non-sense that Rikudo has Rinnegan and Juubi also has the same power in his eye. This fact was even suggested in the previous chapter when HAshirama and Minato recognized Rinne Tensei has the forbidden Jutsu of Rikudo. None of these two ever has Rinnegan, nor did they see someone with Rinnegan during their life. For them to know the Jutsus, they have to see it in a record of forbidden Jutsu. And for it to be forbidden, this actually mean that some people without Rinnegan can perform it. This defeat your argument that Rikudo's Jutsu are Rinnegan granted Jutsus because they wont be forbidden for two reason: (1) Without Rinnegan you cannot perform them, and (2) With Rinnegan they are natural Jutsu.
Finally, my opinion is that the six paths techniques are the techniques of the original SO6P without any Rinnegan. Certainly, they were difficult to perform because they require a lot of chakra and could cause one's death as we have seen with Chyo's kind of life transfer Jutsu. Howver, after taking Juubi's positive chakra and obtaining the Rinnegan (signature of Juubi's chakra as Kyuubi's eyes are the signature of his chakra in Naruto), the so6p was able to perfect his Jutsu.
Madara was using genjutsu on Tobi, he could have taught Tobi the jutsu using genjutsu or at least, give Tobi the basic ideas of how to use the jutsu. We dont' even know how he trained or taught Tobi everything he knew. Rikudou Sennin's jutsu are affiliated with the Rinnegan, not the Juubi. Chances are, Rikudou Sennin was the one who forbade the jutsu from being used, thinking his elder son's lineage could possibly get or unlock Rinnegan.
I seriously doubt DNA can be affected by chakra. I don't know where you got that from, but whatever. While Madara did claim Rinnegan could only be unlocked if one had EMS and Senju DNA, it still took him decades and death to unlock Rinnegan, so it's something more than Sharingan/Uchiha and Senju. The reason why Senju would be able to control the Juubi/Mazou is likely because of their life force or body, which Hashirama was known for and had plenty of.
And about Naruto using Rikudou Sennin's seal... it can be attributed to the seal Minato used, since that was said to be from Rikudou Sennin's own seal.
1) Since the seal used on the Kyuubi was given to Naruto specifically by Minato, who learnt it from Kushina, how does that identify Naruto as anything? Your argument would only wrk if Naruto was the one who created it, but since he didn't, him having that seal means nothing, especially since Minato too gained the same seal upon his revival.
2) You're reaching. While it's true that a Jinchuuriki will absorb their Bijuu's chakra, there's nothing to suggest that such effects on Dna are passed down. If that was the case, then Tsunade should have the same power, since Mito was the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki too. And Naruto should have gained Kushina's power, yet he didn't.
3) Control doesn't mean anything, since both the Sharingan and Mokuton an inherently control the Bijuus. Madara and Nagato both still required the Rinnegan to even summon the Juubi in the first place, so it's not merely an unnecessary addition.
4) Are you forgetting that Madara did have the Rinnegan in the past? There's no reason he wouldn't have been able to show Obito the Rinnegan abilities in an illusionary world he completely controlled. And Hashirama recognizing a technique forbidden by the Rikudou Sennin isn't strange. Both Danzo and Obito knew about Izanagi despite never likely seeing it used, and Izanagi was a forbidden technique despite only someone with the Sharingan being capable of using it.
5) If the six paths could be used without the Rinnegan, then Madara and Obito wouldn't have gone through such lengths to gain it. And Madara wouldn't have had to transfer his own eyes to Nagato in order to have him eventually use Rinne Tensei. The Rinnegan is considerably different from Naruto's eyes when he uses the Kyuubi's chakra.
You shouldn't call someone else's understanding of the manga into question when you can't understand it yourself. Or rather, you can understand it. And that's why you're trying so hard to morph it into something it's not.Originally Posted by so6pww
Kurama simply recognizes that this is a sealing technique used by the Rikudou Sennin. It has absolutely nothing to do with Banbutsu Souzou, and thus, would have no need for both the Rinnegan and the strong body of the Rikudou Sennin to pull it off. It simply requires knowledge of how to perform the jutsu. Case in point? That technique right there is the literal EXACT jutsu performed by:
The only one of these 4 men with Bijuu chakra is Minato. Two of them have Senju DNA. But Sarutobi? He has neither, and yet he could use it just fine. Being able to use a non-doujutsu, non-kekkei genkai jutsu that Rikudou Sennin can use does not in any way, shape, or form count as proof of ones ability to be the next sage.
Wrong. A Jinchuuriki's DNA is not affected by long-term bijuu hosting. Only their chakra. That's your first outstanding mistake. It's not Gaara's DNA that lets him still use sand jutsu. It's the fact that his chakra was mixed with Shikaku's for years to the point that they are the same. When a jinchuuriki has physical transformations on their body from hosting a bijuu, it's their body reacting the chakra received from the Bijuu. Not their body actually mutating. It's no different from a ninja with the Curse Seal receiving wings or horns.Quote:
And the Rinnegan/Sharingan eye of the Juubi doesn't have to mean it's the origin of the Rinnegan, nor the Sharingan. The Curse Seal of Heaven looks just like the Sharingan (3 adjacent tomoe in a circle). Should we assume that's Sharingan related too? Not to mention, if his eyes truly were of the same ilk as the Sharingan and Rinnegan, then why could Madara and Obito control it? It should've broken their control the instant they fused with it, because as proven time and again, the best way to counter Sharingan mind control is with another Sharingan to negate it. The Juubi should've broken free the exact same way Sasuke broke Itachi's Tsukuyomi.
The Gedo Mazou is simply a dormant shell of the Juubi. And even then, control of it requires Senju DNA. Once the Mazon reaches any level of real strength the Rinnegan becomes necessary.Quote:
None of that is even implied. Obito is an Uchiha who had Senju DNA. Though he didn't have the Rinnegan, he still had the Sharingan, which is a weaker form of the Rinnegan and thus, still represents the spiritual half of the Sage of Six Paths' power. Until you show us proof of a non Uchiha, non Senju ninja wielding the Gedo Mazou without the Rinnegan, you are wrong.Quote:
This would make sense if not for the fact that jinchuuriki's eyes only change to resemble the Bijuu in their body when they're activating chakra that they received from the Bijuu. Naruto's eyes only looked like fox eyes when either Kurama was in control, or Naruto was in control, but tapping into Kurama's chakra. And even worse: after he gained full control of Kurama's chakra, the eyes stopped appearing. Now they're just Naruto's own eyes.Quote:
If what you were saying was true, then either Rikudou Sennin's eyes would NEVER look like Juubi eyes because he had control over it's power...
Rikudou Sennin's eyes would only change whenever using chakra received from the Juubi (which would only be possible while it's in his body)...
Rikudou Sennin's eyes would be identical to the Juubi. Not just 6 rings. It would also have multiple tomoe.
You're counting on a bunch of coincidences that may or may not be true.
You're deliberately mixing up "techniques" with "power". I never said that Rikudou Sennin's techniques can't be performed without the Rinnegan. I said one can't match him in power without having the maximum in physical and spiritual power. Both. Remember that Rikudou Sennin created ALL ninjutsu. Meaning every single ninja in the world right now who's using ninjutsu is using a Rikudou Sennin technique. Yet none of them (not even Naruto) can perform Banbutsu Souzou. Because none of them have Rikudou Sennin's spiritual power, nor physical. Naruto only has the physical, received through both the Senju heritage of the Uzumaki clan, aswell as the chakra received from Kurama.Quote:
When the hell did I ever say that Rikudou's jutsu are Rinnegan jutsu? No wonder you're missing the mark with your arguments, you're not reading what I'm saying. I said that Naruto CAN NOT surpass Rikudou Sennin without having both his physical AND spiritual powers. And he can't have his spiritual powers without the Rinnegan. The whole point of bringing this up is because Rikudou Sennin's most powerful technique (Banbutsu Souzou) requires Inyouton to perform it. Mind and body. Yin and Yang. And Naruto only has the body. He doesn't have the mind.Quote:
And he won't. Not without the Rinnegan.
Last edited by ninjabot; July 09, 2013 at 09:57 AM.
- Naruto and Sasuke...on the verge of death...could the next episode make them both awaken their rinnegan?
i definitely don't want any of them to have the rinnegan...
Naruto's gonna look like a freak with Rinnegan lol.