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You guys think Grimmjow could play a vital role in the war now? Personally I think he's toast if he joins. Maybe he can take a few low level stern ritters but aside from that hes a dead pussy cat.
I don't think there is even a slight chance of ryuken somewhat matching batch... Leaders of organizations in bleach have one thing in common overall. Yamamoto was stronger than the rest of the gotei 13 combined, aizen was stronger than the 10 espada combined and we can be sure as hell that juhabach is stronger than the stern riter combined. Its why yamamoto's shikai took out 3 relevant ster riter in one move, its why juhabach gave kenpachi the fodder treatment, its why aizen beat the everloving crap out of 8 or so captain class enemies without much difficulty.
And that said, the stern riter have not yet proven to be that much stronger than the captains. They simply walts into SS with their badges which limited the power of the captains to a fraction. Granted we have not yet seen everything from the stern riter however what we have seen does not altogether imply the ster riter plainly outclass the shinigami captains. At least we won't know for sure until the captains are able to use their bankai properly in battle.
Shunsui was the only Shinigami who forced SR to use Vollstandig, and that speed was enough to catch him off guard. Maybe if he had known SR'd power up quickly he wouldn't have gotten that wound... So far, SRs are clearly stronger than Shikai captains, but Bankais of captains will win in the end, of course.
I also wouldn't say shunsui forced that guy to use volstandig. Neither of them had an edge or disadvantage at that point in the fight, that guy simply used the technique to catch shunsui offguard.
As for the captains being weaker than base stern ritern in shikai.... I don't really get that impression. Byakuya was the only captain who actually lost a battle and that was against his bankai. The rest of the captains were at most bandaged after the fight. Worth noting it does seem like the quincy have some degree of regeneration available to them. Quilge had a hole opened by urahara which miraculously disappeared later on. As nodt had his arm cut up by senbonsakura and later on we saw no wound whatsoever on him (I doubt kubo forgot). If the stern ritern can use blutz to regenerate or heal faster then obviously how wounded they appear compared to the captains is not a good reference of how they actually compared. Heck, even ichigo himself says old man zangetsu used quincy blutz to help ichigo during the fight with zaraki. If the quincy can manipulate blood then enhanced healing is almost a given. I would think the most likely scenario is that at large the stern riter had just about as much trouble with the captains as they had with them except that the quincy had the tools to limit the power of shinigami and look better after the fight.
Byakuya couldn't cut As Nodt with shikai, Komamura didn't fare well against Bambietta (he ressurected because of Yamaji... xD), no captain won against his opponent. I never said base SRs are stronger than captains. Base is tricky as well. Without Vollstandig? If base SR was weaker than captain they'd go Vollstandig, at least few of them. It seems like they're roughly equal, or even superior in their base abilities. Bankai Ichigo would own SR with Vollstandig, as even Kirge was surprised, that Ichigo was above him, despite Kirge absorbing Allon as well. If captains had Bankais, they'd probably own SRs as well. Ichigo against Kirge wasn't that godly.
Regarding Shunsui. He kicked SR in a gut and almost cut his spine. SR escaped with Grimaniel. I'd say it's clearly forcing SR to use Vollstandig. Why would he use it only to escape if it wasn't for escaping, but for wounding Shunsui? He would have used it before attacking, not when his attack failed and he got countered skillfully.
Is Sklaverei Kirge's ability, like Jail? Enslaving people in jail, enslaving reishi. It'd be too overpowered in SS, so if it was only his ability it'd be good. It fits perfectly.
Any ideas on letter A? Now that Uryu is 'A', and Yamaji got killed with an arrow shot by a bow, used like a sword, I'd say Kubo will troll us with A for Arrow.
Last edited by Duniak; September 05, 2013 at 01:48 PM.
You really weaken your argument when you state something so blatantly WRONG!
Byakuya's ability to cut As Nodt in shikai was not affected, although he seemed unable to cut him with his unreleased sword.
PS. Would you stop using caps lock everywhere you can, please? I can perfectly read normal letters. No use writing so many words capsed. You're american, so use your language like you should and don't just repeat yourself all the time. You should also learn how to use caps lock, because emphasizing VERY OBVIOUSLY WRONG in that short sentence looks, and is, ridicoulous and shows me how uneducated and mad you are.
And would you discuss anything that's not about Byakuya? You are boring, and you have pretty much NO knowledge on other characters, as you already proved to countless people in countless discussions. Maybe it's time to change the subject of your fanboyism? Gain some knowledge on other shinigamis before you post about Byakuya again, what do you think?
Last edited by Duniak; September 05, 2013 at 02:41 PM.
Byakuya did cut nodt with his shikai. Its true that he failed to cut nodt right before his senbonsakura kageyoshi came into the equation though. Komamura had trouble however he did not actually fall against her. Thats not the same as being defeated. I didn't make the point that the captains won, I made the point they did not loose. They fought with their shikai against a bunch of quincy using their base abilities and none of them got to the whole being defeated thing.
That guy basically walked in into shunsui's foot though. I don't get the impression he intended anything differently from what happened. More so, if shunsui had the sort of advantage that could "force" that guy into volstandig I would argue it would have been consistent through the fight. Yet as far as we saw that guy did not use volstandig at any other time nor did shunsui pushed him significantly beyond that. The worst case scenario that could be made is that the guy got caught of guard and shunsui kicked him but that does not in itself suggest shunsui is superior.
Based on what quilge said slavery is an ability any volstandig user has. Its just the most extreme version of absorbing reishi possible. Ichigo didn't seem to have been bothered at all by the ability so I don't think people of certain strength would have to be worried it. Well, they would have to worry about it but not about being absorbed. IMO the main risk of the technique when it comes to shinigami that can actually oppose quincy is not about being absorbed but rather the fact that quincy are at that point absorbing the greatest amount of reishi possible which means their power is also at the greatest.
As for Ichigo, that's what I meant. Shinigamis reinforce they body in a way, but it's not as effective as Hierro or Blut Vene. (I forgot to list Hierro there, right?). Those are techniques which precisely store reiatsu in their skin/blood.
Shunsui got a clear cut to SR's stomach, SR got his eye. (I want to know his name already ffs... SR that, SR this, old SR, SR that Shunsui fought, SR with reishi guns...) Was there any other shinigami who actually cut his opponent significantly in a battle? Not Byakuya in greetings? Anyone besides Yamaji?
If old SR could handle Shunsui, would they send Haschwald there? Strongest SR to the strongest Shinigami.
That means every Quincy can gather reishi, but Sklaverei is achieved by using it at an extreme level. Is it the same for every SR? Or is it only Kirge's? Because it fits Kirge's abilities. Sklaverei wouldn't be so fit for other Sternritters. Killing someone by gathering reishi from him? That's what I call hax. On Butterflaizen level, but he just obliterated people close to them.
As for the reiatsu thing I would think at this point we would be arguing semantics to some degree... Although at least from what I understand I don't think reiatsu works that way. Reiatsu means spirit pressure which I would think refers to the concentration of spirit energy released by someone. While in volstandig quincy are not releasing power, they are absorbing it. So naturally their power would not be felt as pressure to those around them. They would have a ton of spirit power within them but I would question whether that could be referred to as spirit pressure in itself.
As far as spiritual awareness goes, I don't think its any different for quincy and shinigami. Its a vague concept so far but it refers to the ability to interact with spiritual things so I don't think this should vary between species even if their powers are different.
Kenpachi was the only one who actually cut a stern riter. The issue with the rest of the fights is that we saw but frames of them at a time. Which are even less relevant if we consider there is a pretty strong chance stern riter can heal themselves in the middle of a battle (I would argue there is pretty strong evidence of that so far).
My point is that what you called reinforcing does not actually count as that. What we are seeing there is a clear cut difference in power, not an actual defensive technique at work. Imagine two scenarios, a two year old punching you and you punching a turtle. Are they comparable? Presumably you wouldn't feel the 2 year old punching you because he has the muscles of a two year old. Its not that you have an armor or did anything to defend, its just that it is physically impossible for the amount of strength the 2 year old has to do any damage. In turn then we have you punching the turtle. The turtle has a highly specialized defense mechanism even if its actual physical capacities are not on par with yours. Quilge attacking ichigo was the equivalent of the 2 year old punching you. Ichigo attacking quilge was the equivalent to punching a turtle.
I don't think the guy literally planned that every step of the way but I do think he aimed to catch shunsui off guard. I mean, why else rush in only to kneel in front of shunsui? Its not a defensible position in the least (although blut vene should be able to take care of that) and at no point did the guy appear in the slightest surprised or taken aback when shunsui reacted. Basically the plan would be "I attack in an improbably stupid way, and while he responds I get him with a quick volstandig".
Well, if slakverie is the quincy's most basic ability taken to the extreme then it is only more reason for it to be something which all stern riter can achieve. I don't think it really relates to jail in the least. If it was related to quilge's special ability then I would think the manga would have mentioned it already. Just to add to this, consider that the ability was induced by the volstandig disk on top of quilge's head. If slakverie was related to quilge's ability then slakverie should be achievable without volstandig. If it was achievable without volstandig then the disk on top of quilge's head would not be a factor here. Unless of course the disk was not a part of volstandig but that seems improbable considering it only appeared once volstandig started.
What about that healing? Where?
And it's funny how that SR was the only one who thought he'd use Vollstandig. And even planned all of it. And thought Kyoraku can react to vollstandig, so using it from the getgo would be stupid. That's one intelligent SR, who appreciates opponent's skill, unlike ALL other SRs, who thought of captains like disposable trash, that can do shit to them, even without Vollstandig.
Kido is basic Shinigami ability. Does that mean EVERY Shinigami can use space relocation or time freezing like Tessai, or barriers like Hachigen? Does it mean, that EVERY Shinigami can use Shunko on master level?
It's achievable, but not everyone can master everything. Knowing Kirge's specialty, enslaving, it suits him. Just like Shunpo and Shunko suit Yoruichi. They're not Aizen, who mastered everything. We can expect it from Juha or Haschwald I think, but giving this ability to every SR seems overpowered. Fighting Shinigamis? Just use Sklaverei and don't let them destroy that thing on your head, absorb all of them and done! Noone is as fast as Ichigo to do it. And noone has element of surprise like Ichigo. Kirge could at least defend himself against Ichigo's speed. He could react, which would mean he could protect his head for few minutes. And seeing how Sklaverei "cuts" your whole body and takes your soul away it's enough to kill everyone.