As we've seen from Caribou or Smoker and many other characters, their offense can be pretty shitty when matched up with a strong haki user.
I'm still waiting for a compelling argument that logia users, who aren't that sepcial anymore in the New World, wouldn't have to train their offensive haki skills.
I have the opinion that Aokiji willingly opened up a hole to evade WBs thrust.
No, we do not know that logia users use haki all the time, where did that nonsense come from? Enel? Oo
And again, hardening can be used offensive and defensive at the very same time, so I don't see a reason to categorize it as being either of those. Evidence? Luffys usage of it. Also it's may only be the ultimate form, nowhere does it hint to being the only form of defense or offense, so why even put hardening into the discussion? We don't even know if you can seperatly train d/o-ively or not.
Last edited by Schabrak; July 16, 2013 at 01:44 PM. Reason: grammar
Oh well, i guess so far we have seen one logia user, who actually trains his CoA for offense. That would be Smoker, since smoke kinda sucks for elemental attacks and the jutte is his signature weapon.
The whole concept behind CoA Haki in the first place was to enable other characters to fight someone lika Akainu without bringing tons of water to every fight. You can reread it here if you don't believe me.
You said that "their offense is already near perfect", which is simply not true. They have their advantages, but in the end every logia is different and so are the properities of their elements. Did Caribou strike you as near perfect in his offense? Smoker had the advantage of his choke; the ex-admiral trio had some of the strongest fruits imaginable, add experience, fighting capability and haki , so of course they would have a nearly perfect offense, they are one of the top 10 strongest characters in the manga. Enel was pushed by the perfect compability with CoO, it might have also helped to be in the sky, right where the thunder bolts originate from, simple gold was his doom though; Blackbeard has the "best" fruit available; Crocodile had a huge experience with his powers, putting him on lvl2 enabling him to dry up stuff, being in a desert gave him a huge advantage, water was his ultimate weakness and who hasn't water available excluding desert islands; Caesar's gas could be used in a variety of ways, his suffocation was rather defensive, gastille was quiet nice, but also only an AoE attack, I wonder if we will see his laser saber again, too cool to be used twice? Monet was quiet fast do to her elemental form, but what struck out to me was her strong defensive iglo layers, not her sharp teeth, a bite stripping one of all warmth was quiet fearsome though. Hm will give this one to you, but only because Oda was using them so rarely in the past and couldn't have shown them being overly weak during those times. Croco/Enel/Teach are opponents, the admirals had to be incredibly strong, CC and Monet had variety and Smoker hasn't reached his peak yet.
Still not seeing why they shouldn't train CoA to be capable of fighting Yonkou crews.
So smoker, as the exception proves the rule? :P
The part of "opening the hole" would come directly before he was touched by the bisento, he knew it would have pierced through him if he hadn't. I don't think we know how a logia users body reacts when part of his body is broken/ripped away when attacked, will it be like a usual logia vs anybody fight where the element just vanished and reforms or does it simply allow to fend of the attack?
That's news to me, thanks for making the most obvious things more obvious.... We knew about Enel and Mantra, we know about logia users fending of a haki imbued attack being haki users. That wasn't a persuasive argument.
What if Rayleigh didn't want to use it, didn't show us Silvers using it during the 16 months of training or Oda hasn't thought about that before his 4 week hiatus to think over changes of the time-skip. Hey characters might have always used a bit of haki, but we never knew. Law beating Vergo doesn't make it any less the strongest form yet, it just means that Laws Devil Fruits power combined with his will and haki was stronger than Vergos defense.
We can differentiate between offensive and defensive usage, Hardening, once equipped though is usable for both in succession, back to back.
Let's consider it true, hardening isn't the perfect form, Reyleighs show off on the island and against Kizaru was, it was invisible. What stops somebody like Akainu from acquiring such power than since it would just add a punch to his attacks no matter their form. And just because it's the singly way to freely fight with logia users doesn't stop it from being used by those as well. CoA might enable someone to touch the logia user, but it doesn't turn them into hard, unmovable objects.
What i said was just an example that in a fight between a logia with CoA and a normal fighter with a much stronger CoA the normal fighter would most likely win. We are kinda spinning around on that one.
Smoker always had hit Jutte and he will probably keep it the whole manga. It's just his signature weapon, which basically makes him the only CoA user that will have to imbue his weapon since he can't produce it via his DF. So yeah, he's the exception that rather proves my point. :P