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The H1 year is completely irrelevant to this discussion, we already know that Oni was undefeated during that time. The relevant years are H2 and H3, my point was that Byoudouin could have beaten Oni at the beginning of H2 when he returned from the mountains and Tanegashima and Oni didn't play until sometime during H2/H3.
Also, some trivia: There's actually a rural city named Tanegashima, which is on an island off the coast of Kagoshima in Kyuushu. Some of his lines also have an accent that matches that region. In other words, there's actually a chance that Tanegashima comes from there. Given that it's not exactly a big place and Tanegashima's attitude, there is even a chance that he might not have been invited to the camp immediately upon entering HS.
There doesn't seem to be too many HS first year in the camp, unless I'm missing something. It's entirely possible that Oni and Byoudonin are very rare exceptions.
There is no real requirement in it having to be accurate.
Both Irie and Oni trolled through it. Yet Yukimura was 20th.
It seems Tanegashima must have took part in the Shuffle since Ryoma and all the MSers expected Tanegashima to be part of the 2nd Stringers.
There is no other reason for the MSers to be surprised that he was going to jump to the 1stString side if he didn't get involved in the long shuffles.
Also, it was specifically stated in Pair Puri 10 that he is "The Leader of the 1st Court who hates planes" and that he is a "Kansai-ben speaking guy".
The MSers already knew that Tanegashima was a first stringer before the ten day shuffle matches began, it was said when the BJB returned from the mountains and Ryoma even repeated it himself.
Yukimura being 20th was more or less made clear to be inaccurate by Kirihara's comment about the MSers not being considered, in other words, it's an exception we were specifically made aware of. Saying Oni and Irie didn't play at full strength doesn't really matter either as long as their position accurately reflects the versions of them that played in those matches (i.e. how they were in the shuffle matches).
---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------
So literally until we get the SPoT 10.5 databook translated we can't really confirm who really played who.
Yukimura was stuck in Court 6 but then rose to only No.20 but still it means the logic of only Court 3 and above playing each other now makes zero sense.
Marui was stuck in Court 6 but then he was chosen to face the G10 so it means he must have risen to a higher court, (Most likely solution)
Nakagauchi & Yamato were stuck in 5th Court but they rose to the Top10 afterwards.
So really its possible that Tokugawa and Oni never met in the Shuffles. The Shuffles were really just involving everybody and everybody.
And of course to both them and us readers, Tanegashima was one of the strong players who had stayed behind to be a Court Leader.
Which created a patterned order of Oni at Court5, skip-a-court to Irie at Court3, skip-a-court to Tanegashima at Court1
For them to be surprised he didn't represent the 2ndString he must have gotten involved in shuffles.
Since I find it odd Konomi would only mention that he has a Kansai accent in his fanbook.
Why did Oni and Tokugawa line-up to face the No.1 and No.2 of the 1st String specifically,
And then Irie faced the No.20?
The numbers of the 2ndString didn't match the No.s that they faced in the 1stString quite a bit.
Yamato No.10 was lined-up directly facing Mouri who is the No.10.
Why have some characters face their opposite number and have the rest random?
That's a huge thing to take note of.
Why was the No.20 of the 2ndString taking on Fuwa the No.11?
Why was No.19 taking No.17 Mitsuya?
But No.10, 1 & 2 of the 2ndString faced their opposite number?
No.11 faced Top10 instead of Nakagauchi who came in 8th?
And there are 20 positions in the 1st string, just because he's part of it doesn't mean he is in the top 10, and that is probably what Ryoma was surprised about.
That said, Ken made a good observation as well in that we've seen only very few 1st year HSers so far, even the trash courts that were probably supposed to rise up eventually were all 2nd years (Sasabe, Matsudaira, Hirari, Tenjin, Todoroki, Murata). That would also match the policies most schools had in PoT, in that 1st years usually didn't make the regular team.Quote:
as a note, Konomi wouldnt mention accents...
It would be something you notice in how they phrase things. It kind of get loss in translations unless you'd like if I made them sound like hillbillies.
Tanegashima in particular has used kagoshima dialect in a few instances i can recall, but also has used kansai dialect verb conjugations here and there.
Honestly a lot of context probably does get lost in the translations of some characters since Japanese does have a lot of subtle ways to indicate chaacteristics in how they phrase things.
Tanegashima was a first stringer so he wouldn't be involved in the shuffle matches. They just didn't know he was part of the G10.
Yukimura, Fuji, Yagyuu, Marui were in Court6, Irie, Nakagauchi and Yamato were in Court5, so the shuffles were extremely mixed.
Its still very possible that out of the 127 White Jerseys + 27 Black Jerseys and each person faced only 50 people, are you going to tell me that its impossible to assume let's say 10 of these players didn't face each other?
Or rather getting better results against other players doesn't confirm that another is a better player?
I've seen your using but I haven't come with this specific argument before.
---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
Thank's for the log on Tanegashima's accent btw
I really don't see the shuffle matches being picked completely at random given all the matches in the U17 camp are chosen by the coaches. Since the goal is to find the best 20 players in the camp it'd make very little sense if the guys you knew who are good (Oni/Tokuagawa/Irie) never played each other. While the MSer did point out the list wasn't solely as a result of win-loss record (otherwise more of them would be on it), I don't think anyone would question that Tokugawa, Oni, and Irie probably had the best records. Since Oni was only #2 it seems reasonable to assume him losing while taking it easy isn't exactly earth-shattering, which is why I assume the 'never beat Tanegashima' part must have been the first year.
I think Japanese manga tend to do their accents too frivilously. I remember talking to my Japanese friend and he says that Japanese all know how to speak proper Japanese so any difference is either trivial or it's going to be something a native speaker would have a hard time figuring out. I know in the Chinese stuff when they try to do a heavy accent they're always stuff you can just completely skip because it's not anything you could possibly understand unless you're a native speaker of that accent. An appropriate English translation would probably be something like Pig Latin, though honestly it'd be preferable to just translate it to something people can actually read for the sake of your sanity.
Not sure what you mean with the last bit.
Couple of things I need to point out:
1) Why are people dogmatically saying Oni lost to Shuuji without Kishin mode? That claim has zero evidence to support it. Oni has used Kishin every single time someone was worthy enough (Byoudouin/Kintarou). If he lost to Shuuji, that means Oni would have done all he could to win.
2) Why are people comparing black aura to GUYA? Have you guys forgotten that BA has bested the likes of YUKIMURA? Whos feat is to return everything and be the best MSer? Don't belittle what is being shown to us. Shuuji and Sanada are the two strongest people we've seen thus far. That's the whole point of plot progression. Im sure when Echizen plays, he will become even stronger.
1) Oni supposedly hasn't been defeated during his first year. Furthermore Kijin is like a myth even among the current 3rd years, in other words they haven't actually seen it. For Tanegashima to have defeated Kijin!Oni, they must have played in some dark alley when literally nobody was watching.
2) Because it's similar in that you think the ball goes somewhere, but it ends up somewhere else. Yukimura didn't return it, that's true, but he wasn't paying that much attention during that situation. Would it work again now that he knows Sanada has it, and how it works? Maybe, maybe not.
On the topic of "plot progression", if anything it's to make the next guy look stronger, he doesn't actually have to be under all circumstances.
It seems I just can't be moved from this stance so I'll stop but I still don't see why that list had to be accurate from No.1 - No.19.
The list has clustered 1st Court & 3rd Court, 1 2ndCourt guy and presumable a couple 4thCourters not in order of their court as opposed to neatly in order, then of course Yuki.
So its "somewhat ordered".
The last bit is the fact that (beside Tokugawa and Byoudouin just being beasts) we can't really say in that list that one player in the list is better than the other player aside since mathematically there's a strong chance that out of the 153 players involved in the Player Shuffles, and each man played 50 Shuffles, there is a huge chance that there are individuals in that top 19 that didn't face each other.
So in other words, there results must have been based on how well they defeated other players, since its likely they didn't go head-to-head.