Juugo is the one controlling and manipulating the Senjutsu chakra here, not Sasuke. It is only able to happen because of Sasuke previously having the CS. Look closely at Sasuke, It is not passing through his body, only Susanoo. You can also see he and Juugo are still protected by Naruto's chakra.
He could become a full blown Sennin? Hahahaha... ahhhh, good one.
Not the shrouds, but the chakra that's inside of them that they use with their jutsu. Naruto isn't performing their jutsu for him no more than Juugo is performing Susanoo for Sasuke. You're like the 5th guy not to get that.Originally Posted by Naruto_Rasengan
That's the exact opposite of what's happening. Juugo doesn't control natural energy; it enters his body automatically thanks to his genetics. He's simply giving his own chakra to Sasuke, and Sasuke's using it to power up his Susanoo because he already is capable of manipulating natural energy thanks to previously mastering the Curse Seal. That's what's happening.Quote:
Why wouldn't he? Kabuto became a full blown sage by taking Juugo's DNA. Sasuke has Juugo's DNA. Kabuto didn't need to absorb natural energy because Juugo's DNA did it for him. Sasuke has Juugo absorbing the natural energy for him. There's absolutely no logical reason he couldn't be a Sage anymore. The literal only partial argument you could make is that he doesn't have the body for it, which could very well be wrong now that he has become stronger with the acquisition of EMS.Quote:
I seriously want to here your rebuttal against this. Honestly. Better yet, this would make an awesome new thread. I think I'll do that instead.
You are clearly the one who does not understand the concept, it is beyond pointless further debating anything with you.
Go and re-read the chapters you are referring to, you are just spewing nonsense.
So what you're saying is, Naruto is using each person's ninjutsu THROUGH their bodies, thanks to having given them chakra shrouds? Because that's what you're implying.
When Hinata used Hakkeshou, that was Naruto's doing? And when Kakashi used Kamui to teleport Bee in his full Bijuu Mode? And you somehow think I don't know what I'm reading?
Naruto is manipulating the chakra shroud, not their chakra. They cannot manipulate or control the shroud in any way. Naruto is remotely manipulating it and matching the chakra to each individuals own, allowing them to use his chakra as if it were their's, as the link is always actively open. He is the one in control of the chakra shroud, not the person it is shrouding.
In the case of Juugo and Sasuke, Juugo is providing the Senjutsu directly into Susanoo, not Sasuke, as you can see here and here Juugo is the one controlling and manipulating the Senjutsu, merging it with Sasuke's Susanoo.
Since you bring up what Naruto's did, this only reinforces the fact that Sasuke doesn't have to contribute anything. Each time Naruto gives chakra to someone, he adapts it to their chakra. They don't have to do any work. They just get a lot more chakra that comes pre-adapted. Yes, they can use the chakra once they have it, but it doesn't take any tricky balancing act. The characters themselves are clearly surprised by just how powerful they are. Same thing with Juugo. Sasuke has long-since been adapted to Juugo's chakra, even if he no longer has the seal. It takes no effort on his part. It's Orochimaru that made the two able to share chakra like this, and I guarantee you Sasuke could not do this were that not the case.
All of them are based on Juugo's ability, yes, but they aren't equal to Juugo's ability as there's a finite amount of power they can achieve, aswell as the fact that it takes chakra away from them in order to activate it. If we're relying on what the CS did for everyone then Sasuke would not be able to manipulate the natural energy to the level that he's doing right now because of the extra chakra drain ontop of using Susanoo.Originally Posted by someguy0830
There is a distinct difference.Quote:
Orochimaru didn't say that he injected Juugo's chakra into Sasuke's body, and then he molded it for him in such a way that he was capable of using it. Naruto did this for the alliance. The only thing Orochimaru did was put Juugo's chakra inside of Sasuke, and then Sasuke took over from there. You seem to think that there was some automatic reconfiguring of natural energy inside of Sasuke, but this disagrees with Orochimaru claiming Sasuke himself made the chakra his own. Sasuke was compatible with Juugo's flesh thanks to mastering the CS, but that was not automatic either. It took him 2 1/2 years to do it. Well, not that long most likely, but you get what I'm saying.
The effort was put forth years ago when he mastered the CS. Had it not been for the feats achieved in CS mastery Juugo could not have done that.Quote:
I'm going to say that Sasuke's body is creating that intricate Cursed Seal pattern. Juugo's pouring his chakra into the Susanoo. The Susanoo is an extension of Sasuke's body, so Juugo's chakra is mixing with his (Sasuke's) own. If it was just Juugo injecting his chakra into the Susanoo alone, then it should have the same "blocky" designs along it that Juugo's transformation does, instead of the "tengu" looking form that Sasuke has when the CS of Heaven is used (flames rather than blocks). There's a distinct difference. For example, Naruto's Sage Mode is distinctly a Toad Sage Mode because of the eyes.Quote:
The only thing giving me any pause in this assumption is the fact that Sasuke's body hasn't gone through the same transformation as his Susanoo.
Yes they're compatible. But they became compatible through Sasuke's work.
If he can't sense natural energy as you say, absolutely nothing would happen. But since he can manipulate natural energy in the form of the CS, I've no reason to believe he can't manipulate in the form of Sage Mode. Even more fortunately for me, you can't prove otherwise.Quote:
I'd say Kabuto's Sage Mode was a corrupted shortcut that's far more potent than the "real" one you're talking about, since the absorbtion of natural energy is automatic. And Sasuke's Sage Mode would be similar in it's aquisition (relying on Juugo's DNA to absorb the natural energy, and relying on his own skill with manipulating natural energy to balance it out).Quote:
Nope. Nothing asspully about any of that, since a character's already successfully done so.
I'll put it this way. It is possible, indeed probable, that Sasuke could somehow gain a new cursed seal that would let him gather natural energy the same way Juugo does. But Sage Mode? No way.
I was supposed to be asleep an hour and 30 minutes ago, so I'm gonna re-address this later tonight. Just remember that you can't attribute feats to an ability that Sasuke doesn't have.
His seal isn't doing anything, because it's sitting inside of Itachi's gourd.
It's his mojo at all, it's not because Naruto likes this style of making rasengan. He uses clone to make rasengan because he can't or couldn't do it with one hand, and using two hands makes it far too obvious and harder to hit. Naruto using clones in fights is his mojo, but clone for rasengan isn't.
Nope, Kakashi's Sharingan is mastered by Kakashi which can hamper him in battles due to it draining chakra. Talent isn't the same as a gift or being born with something. Large chakra pool isn't talent...Quote:
Naruto also gets constantly praised to the moon. Hell, JIraiya and Minato are the only ones who get even more praise than Naruto does.Quote:
He still didn't perfect it, otherwise he wouldn't have needed to try and hit Kakuzu as soon as possible before the FRS broke apart again.Quote:
I do not, just because I don't blindly praise Naruto.
Konohamaru can use rasengan, and from the flashbacks, he wasn't even 12 yet when he was able to use it.Quote:
Yet Naruto needed a clone for rasengan when he was moving and two clones for FRS.
Using FRS with Sage Mode is a better feat.
Pretty sure Naruto isn't the only shinobi who could potentially do this, but okay.
Weren't his ability to use Sage mode and his personality being compared to Hashirama?Quote:
No it doesn't. Being an Uzumaki wouldn't have made Naruto win his fights or resist the Kyuubi's malicious chakra. It was Naruto who won his fights by refusing to give up and continuing to think of a way to win. Unless there's proof that Kishi planned the whole Uzumaki thing from the beginning, it's all Naruto's feat, not because of this whole Uzumaki/Senji heritage. You could argue that his being Uzumaki allowed him to withstand Kyuubi's chakra or whatever Yamato was thinking of after he put Naruto back to normal after he went Kyuubi berserk, though.
You missed me in this part. In here I made a distinction between normal naruto using ordinary ninja chakra and sage mode naruto. With normal naruto you are correct and I made the same point earlier, clones won't tire him out. With sage mode things are dramatically different. Naruto's stamina won't run out per say however any given time he enters sage mode he has a limited amount of sage chakra to work with. His normal chakra is something he can recklessly throw at problems until he goes away. With sage chakra he only has a limited amount of clones, rasengans and whatever other jutsu he has until he has to either call a clone or sit down and gather natural energy. While naruto does not have to save ninja chakra, its a basic form of common sense to be as efficient as possible when using his limited sage chakra. In this situation the issue is that the most efficient way for naruto to use his odama rasengans in sage mode is with the help of clones. Its not a in any form or context a choice, its just the only way he can make them.
It's not obvious at all, since the manga doesn't show it's obvious. Read the fucking manga with your eyes opened.
And learning how to use Kurama's chakra isn't the same?
He doesn't get praised at all. Posters with grammar knowledge of a 5-year old posting "NARUTOROCKZZZPWNALL" isn't praising, that's just trolling. I can name 2-3 posters who actually defend Naruto with actual arguments while the rest of you shit on him constantly without any basis.
He perfected it since it obviously works, duh.
You do, because if you weren't, you'd know that I'm not praising Naruto AT ALL. I'm just defending the feats he accomplished which you constantly shit on without any fucking proof.
Can someone else use Rasengan other than Konohamaru and Naruto? No, they can't.
He will always need a clone because that's his way of fighting.
You think there's someone else who could do this? I'm in awe. First of all, you're reading a SHOUNEN manga which implies that there will always be a hero who stands out more than anyone else and has abilities that are unique only to him. Second of all, if I ignore the deeper aspect of the actual fucking genre you're reading, NO ONE accomplished what Naruto did, Kurama himself said that he SURPASSED his parents, one being a 4th Hokage and the other an Uzumaki who contained Kurama as well.
Lol. You really can't read between the lines. You need everything to be fucking spelled out for you. You think that he was just comparing his attitude with Hashirama's? I can't believe you could be so clueless.
Because he's an Uzumaki, he has a large chakra pool and could contain the Kyuubi, not to mention control him. All I need in this statement.
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I understand the thing you said about the Sage Mode, but I still can't grasp that making clones would tire him out in Sage Mode.
Last edited by Roman; September 27, 2013 at 01:21 PM.
And why do we need to prove naruto's approach and inability to make one handed rasengans is less practical? Thats nonsense, mere math does the job here. It is true naruto has adapted his fighting style and plans to accommodate for his inability to make one handed rasengans however that does not mean naruto's way of doing things is as good as others. To put it in perspective, every strategy or plan naruto has ever come up with so far that involved rasengan could have at least required 1 less clone to execute. Did naruto fail because of the clones? Well, no, he hasn't but that is besides the point. Naruto accommodating to make up for rasengan does not change that not having to accommodate for it would be objectively better. Can you imagine minato having to use a clone to make a rasengan? Even if he hiraishined a clone to help him make the rasengan that defeated tobi it would have still made the whole thing more complicated.
I didn't say the clones would tire him.
Last edited by kkck; September 27, 2013 at 02:15 PM.
The practicality can be questioned in general. Just because a one-handed Rasengan seems more practical, it doesn't mean it's flawless. In Itachi's words, every jutsu has a weakness and by that logic, it doesn't matter which way is used to execute a technique because there's gonna be a time when the technique will fail, regardless of which execution method is used. While objectively speaking, a one-handed could be better and more practical, Naruto's perfection in using clones can't decrease its efficiency because he does it on a second's basis, which is constantly shown by the manga. If I were to get into specific details, the difference between the two executions is Naruto's seal for a KB which lasts, let's not kid ourselves, half a second, if that. So yeah, if we get into such technicalities, objectively, a one-handed is a sure better choice. But a half-second (could be even less) margin ain't gonna cut it to the point where his execution could be downplayed on this scale.
@M3J I thought naruto created clones because, he needed one as a distraction. there are plenty times that naruto has used one hand to create rasengan, so basing chakra controll on that alone is not acceptable. right now naruto is on top of chakra control. sasuke said it, kuruma said it, the 2nd hokage said it, the 1st hokage says it. Idk how much evidence you need to see that he mastered it.
stop deluding yourself, if naruto did not have chakra control how would he got the ratio right to add in wind element to his FRS. or maybe you don't know what chakra control is.