---------- Post added at 08:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 AM ----------
And we know Kintarou beat 2nd court player.
And going off by here
It's a "completely another level of strength". I don't really doubt that he's stronger than Nakaguachi. Do you?
And that page should really prove that 2nd court > 3rd court already. There's simply no need for this discussion.
Last edited by Philia; September 20, 2013 at 09:07 AM.
I didn't know hiding his full power until his real match could mean simply playing smart. Now, I think that's pushing the definition. If he use 95% of his power against Hakamada, and 100% against Oni, that's not really holding back. We're not given any percentage anyhow, so it's impossible to know. But if we use Momoshiro holding back as an example, as it is the only percentage we're ever really given in the story, it's a massive amount. But even if it's 80% against Hakamada, that's still a fair amount being used.
And as I say before, this is just unrelated. The manga itself already stated that there's a massive different between each court. It doesn't matter at all.
---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------
And what I need is a proof from the manga that 3rd court > 2nd court. What we are given from the page I post above is that 2nd court > 3rd court. Anything else that's not from the manga is irrelevant.
If you were to compare the two line-up, you have to use 5th court line-up Oni come up with, as that's what give the result to the current one that we're given. If 5th court can use the same line-up at the time before Black Jersey Revolution without the upgrade and manage to win over 2nd court 5-0, then that would shows that they are better. Without playing Yamato, no one will be suggesting Tezuka to play for Fun, which means no PoP.
just lining up a new line-up and say that can beat 3rd court and black jersey just doesn't prove anything. It's a new line-up already, with different characters.
For instance, T Oni wouldn't put himself in the TeamShuffle for the MSers.
Its strongly implied he wasn't even the listed reserve since Jirou, Gin, Kite & Akutsu had no expections of Oni stepping up to play.
Oni just leaped up in the moment.
So the team would be without Oni unfortunately.
And the MSers Court 3 VS MSers Court 2
It doesn't look good for MSCourt3 if I'm honest.
---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------
Its like believing that the list of the 1st String was completely in order of strength.
That seriously isn't the case.
The fact that Yamato and Nakagauchi are in the Top10 of the 2ndString shows that those two were better than at least one Court1 guy.
In fact, those two were clearly better than their fellow court members (Irie doesn't count).
Irie, another example of Court 3.
So honestly, I wouldn't go as far as to say Court 3 < Court 2. We know Migihashi was the Court Leader (So basically strongest)
And Irie > Migihashi is pretty obvious.
I think Nakagauchi and Yamato suddenly revealing they aren't as weak as people thought, and Irie trolling Atobe are key elements of the Team Shuffle when measuring Court3's strength.
Migihashi is seemingly around the same level as Yamato and Nakagauchi if you look at the 2ndString list when the 1st String arrive.
So the fact that the rest of Court 2 is weaker than Migihashi truly implies that the gap between Court 2 and Court 3 isn't like what Tanegashima said.
I'd say the gap was possibly big for guys like Miyako, Matsudaira, Takei etc. between the rest of Court2. But not for Irie, Yamato and Nakagauchi.
The only Court that has a big gap is Court 1.
Since Tokugawa, 2ndString No.4, 5, 6 & 7, are all most likely from Court 1.
Well, Irie is above 3rd court level, we know that much. Yamato is also above 3rd court level, since he was hiding GYGU until then. I don't think Nakagauchi reveal anything though. He got stomp in his 1st stringer match. The only reason Nakagauchi is shown to be on the same "level" as those is because the 2nd stringer beside the court leader all go home when they lose to the black jersey. Which make sense. It's probably the court shuffle that they play. If you shuffle with someone without a court, you don't have the court in the camp. They might be doing mountain training right now, who knows. And I don't really know the 2nd court leader avoid going home either.
It shows he doesn't play 100% before this match, at the very least.
Oni was in the 1st court when Kintarou was playing Hakamada. I believe not a single person saw him playing that match. Oni is surely talking about hiding it while training.
And I don't believe Oni base stats is worst than Hakamada at all. If basic Kintarou can get 3 game off Oni (he only use special serve, which is return anyways, so kinda useless), that's a notice amount of improvement.
Considering the bad of a shape Kintarou was when he play Hakamada, the match look really close. If KIntarou was only slightly better than #14, I doubt he'll do this well against Oni.
Last edited by -Ken-; September 20, 2013 at 10:49 PM.
I never said that Oni had worse stats than Hakamada nor anything like that.
Hakamada without Vanish = Insta-rape from Kintarou. Kin just needed to counter that, he did, and then he easily won the match.
---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 AM ----------
Hell, Oni wasn't even playing at his 50 % when Kintarou won all those games in a row.
But remember Matsudaira Chikahiko was the audience to Tooyama Kintarou VS Hakamada Izou.
In fact, every match had an audience as long as the HSer of the 2nd String was still conscious.
The only HSers to remain conscious after their ass-kicking was Suzuki and Matsudaira, whilst Washio got "revived".
So its possible Oni got info on the match from Matsudaira.
The other matches like Mitsuya's match or Kawamura's match have no witnesses since people like Takei and Miyako were out cold.
Also, taking 3 games from an Oni who only has BJK at his disposal is sort of expected from Tooyama.
Remember Nationals!Tooyama was already able to fight back against the Oni that must have faced Momoshiro when Ryoma/Kintaro took on Tokugawa/Oni.
So it could be implied Oni played the same as before to see how much Kintaro had improved since last time.
Last edited by Airgrimes; September 21, 2013 at 05:14 AM.