September 28, 2013 08:38 PM
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Queen Otohime vs Fisher Tiger, thoughts on Fishman Island arc
I am recently watching One Pace edit version of Fishman Island arc.
I doubt I get many responses because it about a past arc. But yeah, the title of this thread is misleading because I am actually want to talk more about Queen Otohime, which a lot of readers didn't like. Even with my own personal worldview, I don't think the method of Dr. King or Gandhi are realistic and would work under other circumstances. I would rather favor the like of Ho Chi Minh and Malcolm X. But I am actually going to make a case for her.
Don't think this issue as a black and white issue since it really is not. So comparing to Otohime to the like of Dr. King would fall short. Discrimination take place as long as one identify strongly as part of something in contrast with something else. Power played a factor such as the Nobles and up course ignorant also played a factor.
So who is more practical of the two? I actually thought both are practical based on their abilities. Fisher Tiger has the strength and charisma to carry out what he did. And he doesn't burden with a role within Fishmen society. What I meant is that a Fishmen prince can't do what he did, because that person represent the Fishmen Island and its position to the world government. Such act could put the whole entire island at risk.
Otohime is practical. The danger of isolation of Fishmen Island, I think may have cross her mind but may not yet 100% clicked in her head. By that I meant, if a natural catastrophe was to happen, the fishmen and merfolks would have no place to go (lol humans are even more farfetched, I meant we place hope in Mars in case if something happen to Earth). So in that situation, would you want to work outside of the system or within the system to achieve emigration? If you want to work outside of the system, you need tremendous power like Whitebeard. The kingdom does have one of the ancient weapons (and I don't think they want to put that ancient weapon in harm way especially consider the nature of that ancient weapon) but it isn't realistic that they could overtake an island and or defend themselves if the world is to turn against them.
So she had to work within the system. But she had two problems, an external one and an internal one. The external one including prejudice, slavery, world noble, politics, etc. The internal one is that fishmen/merfolks, through their experiences, are fearful and too distrust (rightfully) to think about the possibility of migration and future interaction with humans.
In essence, the problem transcendence race really. It about survival more than petty discrimination. In a way, I supposed you can think of it as Israel vs Palestine. Palestine had no global political power. Whatever you are on the issues, but Palestine was done wrong by the United Nation after WW2. (I meant to a lesser extend, if the UN came to the USA and ask the USA to donate say 2 or 3 states for the native Americans because the natives did had the natural right and up course they were under mass genocide by the Americans and Europeans. Lol, I doubt the USA would be all fine and dandy. And especially since Palestine had nothing to do with the holocaust). So if you are Palestinian would you go the violent route or would you go through the impossible United Nations route (people kinda go both ways, neither achieve anything meaningful). Palestinians ask the UN to recognize their state, and they failed due to the influences of the USA.
But by a miracle Otohime actually achieve it and get the Celestial Dragon's approval. She solved her external problem somewhat. And by putting herself to go to the human world, she did convince a great many people about the surface world (the internal problem). Fisher Tiger method could never achieve Otohime's goal. Fisher Tiger admitted as much.
Though, she is still a foolish idealist. She didn't consider what happen if she went to the Blue Sea and something really bad happen to her. That would set her plan back couple hundred years. But at that point in the story, she had nothing to lose. I appreciate the scene that she was drunk. Unlike Tiger who can constantly in action, her job was to be patient. And it is extremely hard if her plan is the unpopular one. That scene showed there is a limit to her. By breaking down, and admit the truth about the state of Fishman island, it showed much humanity in her character. I meant she would never admit something so gloom without boozes.
Fisher Tiger was a well written character. I think many people also misunderstood his character. He picked the route that he pick because he had to. But one thing that pretty much describe his character is PRIDE. The pride to be better than human and had the moral superiority. It is his pride that allow him to do favors for human but can't be indebted to them. It is his pride that he had such a hard time to reveal that he was a slave.
Overall, I am actually enjoy Fishmen Island arc a great deal. Watching an edit version of the anime which solve the pacing situation. I meant the anime did add depth to the journey to Fishemen Island. That probably one of my greatest enjoyment of the arc, the adventure there was pretty awesome to watch. There was quite a lot of suspense even on the route going there. The fishman Island was pretty creative, so was their social and natural problems. I haven't finished the arc, but the falling Noah should create great suspense.
Noted though, Oda is usually very creative with how he had to split everyone up, so he can focus on a few of the strawhats at a time. Nico Robin got the brunch of it this time and pretty much disappear for most of the time on the island. She was away from most of the conflict. At least Franky got to sit through the flashbacks.
Last edited by weixiaobao; September 28, 2013 at 08:44 PM.
September 29, 2013 12:53 PM
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Re: Queen Otohime vs Fisher Tiger, thoughts on Fishman Island arc
I also think Fisher Tiger is fucking cool and way under-popular. Your question is hard, all we can so is speculate. Unfortunately for this kind of thing, you need the masses. I see where you're coming from saying that MLK and Ghandi's approach isn't practical. I think that when "the powers that be" can criminalize/demonize any morally justifiable aggressive act, you DO need to go their route. Look at the SH pirates, they saved kingdoms and whatnot, but "oh derp! pirates are criminals derpy derp!!". I love Dragon, but I think his approach wouldn't fly in this world in this day and age. We have fucking satellites and an infinitelly funded military industrial complex. This reminds of what Steven Greer is doing pushing on disclosure of free energy technologies. There are actually some parallels in OP and IRL. Majestic 12 are like the Celestial Dragons and Free Energy disclosure is like the Void Century History.
As far as human-fishman relations in OP world, Queen Otohime had no choice, her position actually restrains her from doing more like returning a slave kid who's "property" of the tenryubito to their parents. Someone like Tiger who isn't 'in the system' is less restrained by it and can go free a bunch of slaves from the tenryubito and fuck shit up without it being taken as a proclamation of war from fishman island. The people have the power. I hope that made sense, sorry I kinda skimmed through your thing.
Last edited by Roarchu; September 29, 2013 at 01:25 PM.
September 29, 2013 02:24 PM
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Re: Queen Otohime vs Fisher Tiger, thoughts on Fishman Island arc
[QUOTE=Roarchu;3549339I see where you're coming from saying that MLK and Ghandi's approach isn't practical.[/quote]
I didn't particularly touch on that subject but just briefly mention where I stand. What I meant is that if MLK was Jewish in Germany, his approach would not have work. If Gandhi was faced off against the French, it wouldn't have work. In fact Ho Chi Minh had try the diplomacy route, and it gets him no where. You need power to bargain with power. If they had use the ancient weapon as a bargaining chip then it may get them somewhere.
Well, I guess I made that same point within the post. I think you misread my post entirely. I was actually making the case for Otohime despite my worldview is that her approach has not been practical in real history. Quoting myself below.
Not particularly sure your point on Dragon. Even within modern day, the USA, the great military power on earth, still had trouble against non concrete enemy such as terrorism and the philosophy of intervention breeds more terrorism. The whole war for the heart and mind is much more complex than giving money through the front door and bomb the back yard.
But I think Oda's point on Hody is quite relevant. Not in term of irrational hatred, but in term of screwed worldview. A great portion of Americans thought that America should win the Vietnam War and I meant then what and why are we there in the first place. Or on Iran and middle east, "they hate us because they hate us?" summing up decades of complex social and political issues down to soundbites. Realistically, people are too busy with their lives to do research on every subjects that they had an opinion on. Hence via words of mouth and or the controlled media, public opinions can be easily sway one way or another regardless what is the subjective truths are. The people on the fishmen island and or the fishmen districts are all examples. Except, Hody took action based on his opinion and his action was extremely dangerous.