As for Komamura i do agree with u,his bankai is a double edge sword but i didn't mean that when i said that his underestimated, my point is that till now poor puppy fight only with monster, most of the enemy that other captains had are weakling compare with what komamura had to fight
This is basically the first shown Hougyoku feat. Ever since then, Aizen has been using it to evade death by Urahara's kido cuffs, combined assault of Urahara, Isshin and Yoruichi, and finally by Gin's bankai. Plus, he destroyed Kototsu (the janitor thingy in Dangai). All that before the final fight with Ichigo.
And those are feast? That only prove what i said, people really underestimate Aizen and ignore everything what he did before Hougyoku
Honestly no one in Bleach dared to face off against Yama-jii. Neither Baach nor Aizen had enough self-confidence in them to fight Yamamoto head on. Nor Shunsui+Ukitake of whome Yamamooto said combined are a force stronger than anyone else.
Only ones that dared to fight Yamamoto 1 on 1 are a brainless WW and a Bach worshipper. You see only dlusional people would fight Yamamoto head on but everyone else who has a bit of a brain would know what awaits him if he/she fights Yamamoto fair and square.
I'm still waiting for an explanation on why Isshin is so strong even though he is one of the younger generations captain. Seeing how great Ichigo's Shinigami power is that he inherited of his father I suspect that Isshin might have hid his true strength when he was a captain of the 10th squad like Aizen did.
It should also be noted that Aizen was willing to clash swords with Isshin, for a reason I don't know of. It's pretty much a given that Isshin also saw Kyouka Suigetsu's release, meaning, if Aizen wanted to trick Isshin into fighting a windmill, he could still do that. Maybe because Isshin was quite strong himself, Aizen wanted to fight him head on, instead of relying on his illusion power. That's just a mere speculation, though.
Well, Gin actually fought Hitsugaya in Shikai against Shikai fight... and well, it was nothing impressive. Especially since Hitsugaya at that time and even now is all about his Bankai. If Gin at least had his Shinigami skills around Byakuya level, then he might have won against Hitsugaya in Shikai against Shikai fight.
Also Gin's and Ukitake's comparisson isn't right, since we know from Yama that Ukitake is strong overall. Also, the only fight he actually lost was against Wondy and well, Wondy seemed at least stronger than Starrk if you ask me, especially going by Starrk's words and intonation, when he saw Wondy coming in to the battlefield... At the same time Ukitake was quite good against Quincies compared to the likes of Soi Fong, Komamura, Hitsugaya and Byakuya even with his illness that made him physically weaker.
The same Gin never showed anything special in terms of Shinigami Arts and was never reffered as a great specialist of any. His only great trates throughout the manga were his Captain-level Reiatsu and his Bankai that was indead deadly, but without it he wasn't better than Hitsugaya without his Bankai... And maybe even worse if we compare current Hitsugaya with Gin...
He technically did not lose that fight, he was basically ambushed and pierced through the chest. Not much he could have done there tbh. WW was specifically made to counter Yama and him being there meant that Aizen was serious and wanted to end things quickly. Which means if Yama was to release, WW was there to nullify him and therefore remove the biggest threat there. We also saw WWs specialty when he extinguished the flames as soon as he got onto the Battlefield.Quote:
Where do you get the notion that he was quite better? We did not see his fight nor his opponent. So, how did you come to that conclusion?
Neither was Aizen by any other Shinigami bar Gin and Tousen (IIRC). You do realize that Gin has toyed with every single opponent he has faced to date, even Ichigo, he had no intention of killing whatsoever.Quote:
How anyone could place Hitsugaya above or even in the same league as Gin is beyond me.
Indeed, Ukitake has been highly praised by his master. To add to your point, he didn't even fight Wonderweiss, but he was merely caught off guard. So, I also don't doubt his power under normal circumstances. However, doing better than those four against Quincy isn't really a proof to it, since it's the direct result of not going Bankai.
If we are to go by hype again, sure, Hitsugaya has considerably more hype than Gin had, anyway, as Gin pointed out during their own fight.
---------- Post added at 04:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 AM ----------
Apart from Ichigo for obvious script reasons, I think Aizen is the strongest shinigami. Almost as inteligent as Urahara, and almost as powerful as Yamamoto. He also beat every single enemy (besides ichigo) without using his bankai. I would love to see quincies stealing Aizen's bankai and he would be like: you can have it, I've never used it anyway...
Can't figure out anyone better!
Also I think some ppl here are not taking into account that intelligence plays a big role in the strength of a character. Kisuke is one of the strongest shinigami because he is incredibly intelligent.
Last edited by metalia; October 21, 2013 at 03:31 PM.
And Urahara is surely one of the strongest, and he doesn't rely on Bankai. He'd trash quite a few Quincies alone if he could catch them. I guess Yoruichi+Urahara would handle almost any SR, Juha excluded. Yoruichi would deal with their speed, Urahara will catch them while Yoruichi fights. And Yoruichi still has Shunko and she'll probably handle SRs with ease. She's not Soifon.
how could you not include aizen on this list. he has twice the reiatsu of a normal captain and could pin an espada down with spirit energy alone. the same espada that could fight equally with ichigos bankai. he uses 90s level kido with no incantation
Strongest or Most Powerful?
If Strongest it's Kenpachi
If it's Most Powerful it's Ichigo
This pretty hard to do in Bleach. Especially because Kubo have made a mess with the power levels (Im looking at you Ishhin). No doubt i want Isshin to be a monster but I just dont see it. When i read his battle with Aizen all I got was " Oh ishin, so it seems Im about to transform, blame the hogyoku for slowing my movements". People seem to forget that Isshin was a Captain for a really short time AND he lost his powers right away. He fought that super hollow and got beat up and while it was a badass fight I would think that someone as powerful as Aizen wouldnt break a sweat with a semi arrancar/hollow/vasto lorder/whatever it was.
And after he got his powers back, he was still rusty. So a rusty Isshin beat the crap out of Aizen or Aizen was getting handicapped by the Hogyoku? The answer depends on you really, but I find it WAY easier to believe that Aizen was undergoing mid transformation.
Kubo greatest mistake in Bleach wasnt Aizen, but Kyoka Suigetsu. Its quite literally a sword that craps Deus Ex Machinas. He shouldnt have made such a Hax sword with impossible to find out weakness. Because now how can we really gauge Aizens power levels if pretty much everybody was under Absolute Hypnosis.
Also, didnt Aizen said that Shinigami battles are battles of reiatus? Which is why Soi Fong was unable to kill him with her 2-hit KO? By that Logic, how is Yama aka Satan himself unable to break out of the Hypnosis with reiatsu alone?. If the answer is "well Aizen was stronger " then this thread is over. But again, I dont believe Aizen was stronger than Yama.
My point is, in Bleach is pretty much impossible to gauge power levels.
Now who would I LIKE TO BELIEVE are the strongest?
-the rest i dont care.
Sorry for my english.
Aizen and Ichigo aren't shinigami. Theyre hybrid beings. Yama is presumably dead and no one knows about Unohana. Zaraki has great strength but he isn't as complete as other shinigami. The most complete imo is Shunsui or Juushiro (if we go by his implied skill being what Shunsui's is). Urahara is very skilled as well. And Byakuya is going to be something else when he comes back to SS. He spent more time in Kirinji's healing water than anyone. Plus he probably received the "royal treatment" like his sister and VC. It will be interesting to see how the characters develop. We have so many characters to release Bankai. Hell Im even interested in Komammura now that he's a werewolf, he must be crazy strong. I mean all the abuse he's taken through the manga by Aizen, Kenpachi, hollow Tousen... hes still up and kicking!