I think i understand why neji got killed, everything he said in part 1 was right!! he talked about destiny and how one cannot change what tehy were born into who conflicted with narutos original theme of hard work and dedication, but it turns out he was right about everything. naruto isnt a good ninja because he worked at it, he has storyline hax and destiny protection!!
think about it
hes an uzumaki which gave him a cheat code to finishing sage mode easily and his vast chakra/stamina + capability of handling the kyuubi
hes the child savior
hes the son of the fourth
hes pretty much ninja jesus!!
when you think about it, naruto was already chosen by destiny to be the hero of the manga. i mean i know hes the main character so of course hes gonna be #1 but the fact of the matter is the main theme from part one got destroyed because he is actually superior to most nins due to his dna and lineage. the entire theme that the story was built on has been destroyed by someone picked by destiny LOOL kishi runined his story by making naruto into ninja jesus instead of developing him as a character, he chose shortcuts like making the uzumaki the ultimate clan in order for naruto to gain sage/kyubi mode with relative ease, and make him some type of people magnet making all his villains fall in love with him without any real effort(if someone has been evil for like 10+ years theres no way talk-no jutsu from an immature kid would save you in 30 seconds)
when you think about it, it kinda makes sense to kill off neji cause he was right all along and keeping him around kinda ruins the manga to some degree, seeing as naruto has been hand picked by destiny and has guardian angels guiding his every move.
it seems like kishi sacrificed his original plot to have these super jutsu and to get his point across that "love conquers all".
neji was right all along, you cant defy destiny LOOOOOOOL
Well yes... at first glance it may look that way, but Neji's message was actually a little different.
"People are what they are. They can't change."
Naruto back in those days was considered a dropout and a loser. According to Neji Naruto was born that way and he will always stay that way no matter how much he struggles to overcome said fate.
It doesn't really matter it was later revealed Naruto has all those superb genetics and whatnot... back then he didn't know about any of it and he was generally considered a inferior loser. Had he given in to Neji's ranting and accepted what he used to be back then, all those asspull destiny powerups would never have occured because he would have stoped trying to improve himself and thus he would have never reached those points.
Last edited by chilibun; October 29, 2013 at 03:55 PM.
It does't matter if there's a predetermined fate and wether Naruto's resolve is an illusion or not.
Neji was basically saying "once a loser always a loser. give it up, its something that will never change."
Naruto proved that wrong. He didn't prove wether there is a predetermined fate or not, he simply proved that you don't know your fate and that it is possible for things to change. Wether that change was destined to happen or not is of little relevance here.
Naruto could never plausibly prove neji wrong in that regard. By definition naruto was born unfit to prove that hard work triumphs genetics and talent. Naruto was born a superior human being from a physical and moral standpoint, that much is fact by this point. He was born a descendant to the sage of six paths, an uzumaki, son of a kage and on top of winning the genetic lottery he was given an infinite source of power through the kyubi. Naruto was never an untalented looser, people just didn't know how much better than all of them naruto was born. Naruto failed at the academy because the world was literally working against him. people freaking went out of their way to make naruto miserable and lonely. However as I have pointed out naruto was born not only physically better than them but also morally superior so heavy trauma did not turn him into a transvestite cannibal but rather it made him try to earn love and respect and whatnot. If naruto had been a normal human being, the king that are not born predestined to be awesome thanks to their superior genes and inherent moral highground, he would have been like pretty much any other kid whom the world went out of its way to make miserable.
Neji perhaps was killed because, well, he was doomed anyways. He does have the best byakugan but the way the manga works so far implies that neji was never going to be free of the burden his clan placed on him. Lee was not going to beat him because lee failed the genetic test and can't even use ninjutsu. Lee never had a chance against someone like neji who was born a superior kind of human being. So in killing neji kishi did not have to bother to ever address the whole thing with the branch fate and he certainly would never have to address lee failing to defeat neji's superior genes. Neji dying a hero and reaffirming naruto's convictions is far less depressing than the bunch of depressing stuff he would inevitably have lived for otherwise as far as readers are concerned. Of course, neji's death would be more important if naruto's convictions hadn't been reaffirmed a billion times before and after his death. Or conversely neji died because the kyubi only has so many tails and it was a better excuse than just leaving him out of the attack that actually got obito.
Even if you think that it's irrelevant, Naruto's argument is nonsense because he is destined for greatness and is blessed with genetics, a magic genie in his stomach, and connections to some of the greatest shinobi's in the world. Naruto didn't become great just because he doesn't give up. He is great because he is blessed with all those things. Also, Neji's turmoil is not about being a loser or winner at all. It is that he, like his father, is born for the purpose of serving the main family branch. It is this idea of being bounded by destiny that Neji is trying to fight. So Naruto's success actually proves that Neji was indeed correct all along. That we are bound by destiny and that certain blessed people like Naruto, will triumph over those who are not.
Last edited by chilibun; October 30, 2013 at 05:55 PM.
That is wrong. A prophecy is not a 100% success chance or a guarantee to play out. There are a lot of factors that come into play that could easily suade one into the wrong path.Quote:
Major example - Nagato. For a long time Jiraiya considered him the child of the prophecy, hell actually had a genuine desire for peace. He was born with superior genes and body too, does that mean he was destined to succeed at everything he did?
No, He chose not to persue the path of evil or darkness. We saw that he could have gone down that route and given up, he had darkness in him that resented the village.Quote:
His desire for acknowledgement and keeping to his words are what shaped him into what he is now. Not some prophecy.
There were two children of the prophecy and IIRC Minato had something of the sort too, I think it was the Raikage who said something along those lines, not sure what it was.Quote:
The whole prophecy thing did indeed ruin Naruto IMO, at face value it completely went against Narutos character and development in Part 1 and early part 2, however, if you look deeper you realise that the prophecy did not shape Naruto. He did not have to do the things he did. He simply could have ended up like either Sasuke or Obito but he didn't. He chose, not was chosen, he chose to pursue acknowledgement and the title Hokage.Quote:
His heritage did not reach ridiculous heights until much later when everything was revealed to him. But even without knowing he was the child of the prophecy etc Im certain Naruto would still have been on the same path he has always been on.
Are we talking about Nagato or Obito?Quote:
Either way, both of them have been shown to be very fragile and easily prone to suggestions. They have a weak mind IMO but have a strong thirst for whatever suggestion is implanted into their minds.
Both characters have a lot in common with Naruto, so they could easily relate to him. An example of Naruto failing miserably to talk down someone out of their dream is Sasuke.
If you truly believe that him being the child of the prophecy is a guaranteed "win" then how do you explain some of his failures?
What choice is that?Quote:
No it does not. I agree that the prophecy route was rather retarded and anti climatic but I very much doubt the prophecy has anything to do with who Naruto is as a person. A Saviour/Prophet does not necessarily have to be holy, he can turn around and fuck people up and be evil. It is a matter of choice whether you take the dark or light route.Quote:
Nagato's a horrible example, because his actions did in fact bring about the aforementioned prophecy. Now being a CoP doesn't mean he would have succeed at everything, but it did mean that he would succeed at what was prophesized: bringing about a great revolution to the ninja world. That is what he did with Naruto's help.
Pretty much exactly what Rikudou King said. Destiny is like a book. From the character's perspective, they do indeed make their own choices, but we know that they are simply following a script. Every choice and event is already predetermined. The characters themselves just don't know it.
Last edited by chilibun; November 05, 2013 at 01:38 PM.
If you look at it solely from Part I, Neji was so wrong and off. Naruto had no genetics except for foreshadow that he's the son of the FOurth Hokage nor was he a genius or intelligent by any means. Naruto worked hard to get where he was. EVEN if you take Part II into account, it changes nothing because Naruto wouldn't be as good as he is or gotten as far if it weren't for himself. Genetics or heritage would not have helped him be powerful or able to talk to anyone or refuse to give up or not change his path. That's all personality and willpower, which Naruto got because of his bad childhood.
Thing is Naruto was not the destiny child... Aparently it was MINATO... Oh w8 it was Nagato... Now w8.... Then it was Naruto.. Then it was Naruto and Nagato...
Anyway Naruto had a choice... Naruto could have chosen to destroy the world or save it... He had a CHOICE, even if it was somewhat limited going by that prophecy.
BTW if 1 can see the future one can make a prophecy about what is going to happen in the future... This in no way, shape or fashion remove choice from the picture... This guy would just know what choices you are going to make.
Even in real life the believe in Christianity is based on free will and choice... Thing is God is also said to be omniscient... Hope you can put 2 and 2 togeder...
Last edited by xXan; November 05, 2013 at 03:59 PM.
Funny, if you go back to the so called Loser Group of Naruto, Shikamaru, Choji, and Kiba, the only one who didn't hit the genetic lottery and is continually overshadowed by greatness is Kiba. He doesn't posses the superior intelligence/leadership qualities of Shika, strength of Choji, or the genetic ridiculousness of Naruto.
He just lacks the genes of the others. Which explains why he is badly overshadowed by their talents and accomplishments.