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In case you forgot, Fuji then handed Shiraishi a 6-0 whooping straight afterwards as they went into tie-break.
Honestly, I don't know how Kenya would do against 4thCounter. Kenya's Tech isn't so great. Considering the likes of Hirakoba has the exact same Tech as Kenya and he was astounded by it.
Kikumaru VS Kenya really isn't the sort of match where someone is going to get their ass-kicked at all. Like... At all. Kenya's attacking let's him down here.
Things like that are just Doubles tactics in PoT... As weird a tactic as it was. Doubles tactics are what makes a pair superior to other pairs.
That same 5thCounter Fuji will slaughter the likes of Kaidoh etc.
Its such an open match between the two its just hard to say who will definitely win.
What I am telling you though is that this series isn't all about stats in this series.
Yagyuu has simply a superior Mental and Tech to Kenya all that lets Yagyuu down is Speed.
Which doesn't matter much in Doubles.
Why you think Yagyuu is underrated still makes no sense.
But to think Kenya in your eyes is some guy able to slaughter him and Kikumaru, that's a bit off.
Even though Niou who knows Laserbeam inside out was helpless against it, you still believe Kenya will shit on it.
"Really, like, wow" is my line here.
Did you even read the damn post. I've brought out the stat breakdown. Kenya only has Speed in this situation. Like... That is his only advantage here.
Kenya has the worst Mental and Technique out of the 4 of them. Joint lowest Tech with Shiraishi when compared with Yagyuu/Niou.
Speed alone can never win you a match in PoT in Singles iirc.
Even Kamio needed to bring out Sonic Bullet for instance.
How did Yagyuu "almost lose"? Laserbeam was never returned properly lol.
Kenya isn't suddenly going to become Shiraishi/Niou level and destroy 4thCounter lol.
As if Kenya can suddenly break Kirin Otoshi or Hakuryuu haha
Last edited by Airgrimes; December 04, 2013 at 06:58 PM.
Kikumaru almost return laser beam and would have if Yagyuu laser beam was the one use at the beginning of the match. It's even mention in the manga that his eye gotten use to Niou laser speed which is why Yagyuu laser work. That wouldn't be the case if they play singles. And Niou would have return laser beam if it was use. He's facing curve laser, which is never before shown in the series. And techniques in PoT generally, with a very very very few exceptions, work the 1st time it is use. So it got that benefit along with being use on the no illusion Niou.
And well, 3 points off Shiraishi is something that Kikumaru will never archive since the #2 lost almost a match to the Bible without getting a single points. Kikumaru is crap tier in singles. If you think Kikumaru can beat Kenya, that explain everything to me about your thought on Yagyuu as well.
---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
One got point and other one fail. I say 4 counter Fuji, so where does Kirin Otoshi come from? Without the evolve triple counter, Fuji is still above Kikumaru. So him losing while not being able to do anything while Kenya is capable to do something is more than enough proof that he's above Kikumaru. I don't see what's not clear about it.
Last edited by -Ken-; December 04, 2013 at 07:07 PM.
I definitely felt the same way but a bullshit win is still a win. Just like how Yagyuu beat Niou. I don't understand how that worked. If Yagyuu could outplay Niou then why didn't he play any matches in the finals.
The fact that Krauser was chosen for the team shuffle instead of Kite or Akutsu is also kind of ridiculous. There are some times where teams are made out to be close or way better than another for story line purposes. These are still points that can't be ignored.
I'm not saying that I'm saying that Ochi/ Mouri didn't really do much to handle Niou. Honestly Niou didn't do much other then use the zero-shiki serve to keep his service games and use the Tezuka Phantom when Atobe was mentally assassinated.
Niou only used Tezuka Zone once which was off the zero shiki serve and didn't use hyaruken. So if Niou plays in the same way as he did against Ochi/Mouri, he will get injured again.
If you are suggesting that he will not push himself in the same way because his opponents are not the same caliber as Ochi/ Mouri then I kinda agree with you. First I think Shiraishi can handle Niou!Tezuka. Fuji handled Niou!Tezuka, I think Shiraishi can in the same way.
Shiraishi hit controlled cord balls against the sixth counter. Shiraishi had also come up with counters for each one of Fuji's special shots. I feel as though, having seen Fuji in the finals, he will be able to seal National Niou!Tezuka's special moves in the same way.
After that Niou!Tezuka has the ZSS, which will eventually lead to injury. Even Tezuka phantom is sealed by the cord ball technique, which would also hurt Niou!Tezuka's arm.
Then there is Yagyuu. In my opinion Yagyuu is not as good Kenya in doubles. I feel as Yagyuu's court coverage in the back would be 1000x better than that of Kikumaru in the Kanto Tournament. In this he was able to reach the laser. I think with his speed Kenya will be able to reach a curving laser even if he originally goes in the entire opposite direction of the ball. This is all speculation, but so is saying that Yagyuu will destroy Kenya.
In that way I think in terms of team work Yagyuu/ Niou = Kenya/ Shiraishi and in terms of individual skill Kenya/ Shiraishi > Yagyuu/ Niou.
Now if Niou/Yagyuu were somehow able to synchro without Niou abusing the ZSS and hurting his arm then I would agree that Yagyuu and Niou would win.
Something that only Kikumaru, Saeki, Sengoku and Ryoma have.
So to assume that other characters will cope with the Laser and Curving Laser just based on Kikumaru's stats alone is totally wrong.
Ignoring the fact that it took Kikumaru over 3 games to just ADJUST to the real Laser WITH a Doubles player backing him up where Kikumaru was able to stand back and analyse which is a luxury he wouldn't have in Singles, means that Laserbeams is far from an easy move to track with your eyes.
If a man with Motion Vision can't really do it against a limited laser, then when Yagyuu adds a completely new Laserbeam which he can hit from the exact same stance and in addition to the fact that Yagyuu can aim his Laserbeam in practically any direction, meaning a Curving Laser in any direction too, means there is little relevance to Kikumaru being able to only touch the Laser shot back in Regionals.
Yagyuu's moveset is in a different region now.
---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------
After analysing their win, I realised you were right and that is a serious bs win.
Yagyuu and Kaidoh learned each other's moves, then made superior version of them.
Kaidoh learned Laser off of Yagyuu and made Gyro Laser which is a superior shot.
Yagyuu learned Snake off of Kaidoh or was it Boomerang Snake? Either way, he made Curving Laser which is a superior shot.
The twist is that Kaidoh was able to master his superior version in such a short time that he could use it in time for Nationals tournament.
I'm pretty certain Yagyuu didn't master Curving Laser in time considering Niou didn't even know Curving Laser existed and they're best friends.
But yeah, Yagyuu can completely take out somebody of Niou's base stats as we've seen.
He just wanted to give the MSers an opportunity to enjoy some massive growth.
And he felt the best players at the time who could gain the most growth were the ones he chose.
And Oni got it spot on for almost all of them except two of them.
(Krauser and Shiraishi) since they both sorta wasted their time from what I saw considering Shiraishi just took off a weight, and Krauser's stats haven't changed since Nakagauchi showed him his weakness.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------
His Mental and Tech is identical to Hirakoba's. The evidence really points towards 4thCounter having the same effect it had on Hirakoba as it did to Kenya I think.
We've also all come to the agreement that special moves can have a different impact against particular stats.
The same way Rai can be hit by somebody with an extremely high tech stat, or Hadoukyuu by somebody with an extremely high Tech or Power stat.
Kenya only reaches the 18 total due to his Speed. Neither his Tech or Power or Mental are notably high and in SPoT ALL 3 have been shown to be more useful than Speed thus far.
Yes, but it have that huge of impact on Hirakoba because it say he put everything into that shot. That, and he's using a special shot. Kenya didn't that kind of big move at all.
He says something that shows that not only is he affected mentally, but he really just can't get his head around the move.
Since in reality at that stage he should have still felt victory was his as he just needed to ace Kawamura before he realized his Habu had actually weakened so bad that even Kawamura could hit it back
But the circumstance is very clear there. Even Rin state it. He put everything he have into that Habu, so that's why when his opponent break that Habu, his heart falter. Kenya doesn't have such shot. And because he doesn't have enough strength left to continue hitting Habu at that level anymore, so Kawamura can hit it back. Rin at that point can no longer ace Kawamura. So him feeling that way is perfectly normal.
Hirakoba actually describes how the Tech defeats him. With Hirakoba's Tech and Mental matching Kenya's own Tech and Mental I'm pretty sure they'll suffer against 4thCounter in the same way. Kenya isn't Shiraishi or Niou or anything.
Hirakoba comments on how he put everything into that Giant Habu sure, but that becomes completely irrelevant when he describes in detail how the 4thCounter mentally defeats him due to the movement of the shot.
Yes, and he feel that way because it destroy his Giant Habu. Does Kenya have that kinda move?
Movement of a shot? No, it's clear that this is mental base. He feel that way because his mental is crush. And if movement of the shot affect it, then speed is clearly a matter you shouldn't overlook.
Hey I haven't written on this forum in a while, but I think I'm just gonna pick the pairs that move on.
Kintarou/Chitose versus Tezuka/Kaido
Atobe/ Hiyoshi versus Niou/Yagyuu
1.Kintarou/Chitose will beat Tezuka/Kaidoh.
Chitose is clearly ahead of Kaidoh. And Kintarou & Tezuka are both TnK user. However, Tezuka's arm is likely to let him down.
2.Niou/Yagyuu should edge Atobe/Hiyoshi.
Niou can synchro. So, Niou with anyone would make a deadly pair. Plus Yagyuu should be better than Hiyoshi in doubles.
Kaidoh has his combo and Chitose can't use Saiki, how is the latter clearly ahead?
And, as far as we know, Kin didn't learn completely how to use TnK yet (I mean, he only used it when his ass was getting kicked -just like Ryoma in the Nationals, and Echizen hasn't used it again since then-) whereas Tezuka used TnK when he was already winning and even used it again minutes later against Fuji.
Also, yes, Atobe loses in the 2nd match.
I'll say Kintarou can use his TnK. He activated it until the end of the match and there's no pages that suggest he can't use it outside of assumption, unlike, say, Beast Syncho or double black aura, where there are panels showing they can't use it at will.
Atobe is the strongest players of those by far, but I don't think he's that much ahead of Niou, and Yagyuu are probably much better than Hiyoshi. Niou/Yagyuu win.
---------- Post added at 08:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 AM ----------
However, I'll add that I think Minami/Echizen can beat any pair because Aura ball alone. As long as Minami serve and get out of the way, I don't see any players winning beating that besides Tezuka and Kintarou (And no, Sanada got whoop 6-0 by Shuuji. He can't handle Aura ball. And I doubt Shuuji can handle aura ball too, so I don't see Yukimura doing hot either)