no way in hell sasuke could have won that fight, itachi could have just landed izanami on sasuke at any time...
Who wins the fight isnt always about who is strongest...
Itachi could literally hax his way through any fight
---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------
nagato probably does stand a better shot of winning, but itachi could still pull off an upset with uchiha hax
after the way itachi reversed edo tensei with shi suis eye in that crow
on accident at that!!! And how he beat dragon sage mode kabuto, an opponent even nagato would struggle with...
i dont think anyone, except mayby hashirama or madara would be out of the question for itachi
Madara will definitely beat him.
Hashirama will definitely beat him.
To me Nagato is a quick sniper, If Itachi didn't have help from Naruto and Bee when Nagato launched Chibaku tensei and considering Yasaka's Magatama poor firepower, Itachi would have been defeated.
I believe Sasuke is stronger than him due to having better eyes and his stamina far outclasses Itachi's and I don't agree with what the others said about Itachi being intelligent will change the match's fate, as If Sasuke is an idiot seriously, I expect him to be little bit less intelligent than Itachi, Sasuke was considered as a genius by many after all.
Kabuto will beat him. Edo Tensei is part of his arsenal, so If he summons Edo Nagato and Edo Madara, Kabuto can relax and take a cup of tea while he watches the two Rinnegan-monsters in action. Also, Kabuto on several occasions would have easily beaten Itachi was it not for Sasuke's frequent interferences, It's undeniable that Itachi participated more in the fight but don't neglect Sasuke's part in it as well. If Sasuke didn't help Itachi out of Tayuya's sound genjutsu, It would have been over for Itachi...If when Kabuto impaled Itachi, Sasuke hadn't used Susanoo to distract Kabuto, Itachi would have already been turned into a pawn once again. If when the fight just started when Kabuto used Sage Art : White Rage Technique and If he hadn't tried to capture Sasuke instead, and If he had gone for Itachi, he would have won during his first attack. So no, to me Kabuto is stronger than him, and that is even without his edos, Sasuke and Itachi had to buy some time for Izanami, It ain't a techique which can be pulled out in the blink of an eye.
To me these are the only characters he can't beat, though I forgot to add Juubito/Rinnegan Obito. So for me, there are only these 7 characters he can't beat. I think he would beat Alive Minato but I think he'd lose against KCM Minato.
Last edited by Rikudobito; January 25, 2014 at 04:19 PM.
And how exactly would Itachi catch Sasuke in Izanami? What "lesson" would Itachi use that Sasuke would be incapable of accepting? Izanami wouldn't be effective in this case because Sasuke already knows how to deal with it, meaning he can simply "accept" whatever condition and escape. Not to mention that Itachi would lose an Sharingan, weakening himself. Itachi would be far better without trying to use Izanami.
Wow, what a post, RK. I remember how you claimed that minato can't escape and defeated easily if itachi will use his izanagi to him. And yet right now you just made an statement that sasuke can escape that izanami just by simply accepting the condition?
The thing is, itachi just said that using the izanami in a battle is really useless. Because anyone can escape that genjutsu if they want to. Not unless they're kabuto and orochimaru.
And no, the reason Itachi didn't attack Kabuto was because his whole plan was to caught him in a genjutsu, a fact that Itachi outright states.
Okay. I would for, some reasons agree that on a side note, these Juubi-spawns indeed possess Natural Energy, but for sure they weren't that strong. I could go as far as call them fodders which even the Konoha 11 managed to beat with relative ease. Even a base mode Naruto was able to solo one with a single kick. Though I guess you're mentioning about the Bigger Juubi-spawns right?, they aren't that strong as well.
You think Amaterasu would have been that much of a problem?, for sure with Sasuke's Blaze Release mastery, it could have been made much more easier for the duo, but...Kabuto has more than the means to escape it. Kabuto has Orochimaru's body replacement-style technique in his arsenal. As far as I know you can't say that with such technique he can't escape, because Sasuke already proved it against Itachi that he was able to escape from Amaterasu nonetheless. So no, as long as this technique is concerned, whether Sasuke's control over Blaze Release is superb will matter not. Though will Kabuto even need that technique to be honest? NO. It would be simply like guessing Kabuto would just sit by and let Sasuke and Itachi use techniques from afar? Kabuto already proved how he was able to easily avoid Sasuke's Susanoo arrow while he couldn't even see it just using his sensing capacity and his advanced reflexes from Sage Mode. I recall, that Susanoo arrow had to make Kakashi resort to Kamui and the latter stated the Arrow to move at very high speed when launched. Whether it is Amaterasu ( no need to even use Oro's body-replacement technique ) ,Arrows,Totsuka sword, I'd expect Kabuto to dodge all of them.
It seems our definition of how Izanami works seems to be different but oh well...Isn't Izanami a technique used to make people realise the error of their ways and to acknowledge the real results of their action and to accept their fate as well as to accept reality as it is. Judging from Kabuto's personality, that's made the technique suitable to trap him, he did not accept reality. So no, someone like Minato who is pure-hearted and who has fully accepted reality, the technique will not work on him I think If Izanami is truly all about that unless Kishi changes the information given. That's the technique's weakness to me and as Itachi said every technique has a weakness whether you like it or not.
Last edited by Rikudobito; January 26, 2014 at 04:43 PM.
Itachi still would have had the protection of Susanoo. Now I'm sure one could question whether Kabuto would have been strong enough to break through the initial Susanoo aura, but pulling out the kunai and puncturing it would have at the very least given Itachi the heads up to strength it. Sure, there were times when the brothers needed each other, but that was only due to them holding back and trying to catch Kabuto with Itachi's specific plan. Had they not needed him alive, there's no logical reason that fight would have even gotten that far. A single stab with the Totsuka Blade from Itachi, ala Nagato, would have ended the whole fight a minute after it began.
a massive single shot of Amaterasu to cover a huge area (meaning even creating a new body wouldn't escape the flames) but also the ability to shoot multiple blasts of the flames (meaning he could simply sit back and snipe every new body Kabuto made til Kabuto ran out of chakra). Secondly, Sasuke is fully aware that Kabuto has that means of escape, so there is little to no reason he would not take that into account. As for dodging, Kabuto was barely able to dodge the arrow, and that was only because he was allowed to play attention to it. Distracted, his ability to dodge is non-existent. Throw in the previously mentioned facts about multiple attacks and massive AOE, along with the fact that Sasuke can continue to manipulate the flames afterward, and whether he could actually dodge them all is doubtful. But we're getting off topic here and should take it to another thread.
Maybe. But my interpretation is kinda different. How the heck itachi will cast his genjutsu to kabuto who just closed his eyes? Yea, he just said that he wants to caught him with his genjutsu, but as that fight moving on, itachi knew that any of his genjutsu is useless, that's why he relied to his izanami.
2. My bad, it wasn't the izanagi but the izanami. You just claimed that minato will be caught by the izanami and he can't escape that genjutsu. Whereas you just claimed that sasuke can escape that by just accepting the condition. Which is kinda bias. and no, I think minato is one of the opponents who can escape that izanami pretty easily. Minato is no orochimaru and kabuto. But anyway, itachi just said that izanami is really useless to use in a battle. So it's no doubt sasuke can escape that, not unless he's as evil as his master and fellow desciple.
Once Kabuto entered Sage Mode, the plans changed I think, Itachi told Sasuke not to kill him before Kabuto went into Sage Mode. Soon afterwards, I think the plans changed because he could no longer use genjutsu on him,so they had to resort by force and they did not expect him to be a Sage Mode user, so yeah it changes a lot of things as well. Now,Kabuto as well had no intention to kill the brothers,...he could have fully attacked Itachi because he was an Edo tensei, but his intentions to kill Sasuke were nil. He simply wanted to capture Sasuke. So, both sides were fighting with "don't kill him/them" in their mind. Totsuka blade would be a piece of cake to evade due to sensing, advanced perception and reflexes. He avoided an arrow from Sasuke which is stated by Kakashi to move at very fast speeds, He would have avoided Totsuka easily, what happened to Nagato was that he was blinded by the smoke, that's a different context from here.
Maybe, but what my version of what the Juubi was trying to do is that It was trying to get rid of the black flames before they could proliferate on him and consequently making him unable to remove all of his body parts. Well, that's logic anyone would try to get fire off of them.
He was barely able to avoid the arrow,because he was "blind" ,yes I'm using the word blind because he was still inside the snake and couldn't see anything yet he was easily able to avoid the arrow. Sasuke is aware of Kabuto's ability to escape, yes but Kabuto is also aware of their abilities. Kabuto wouldn't go head on against dangerous techniques such as Amaterasu and Susanoo, he had to plan what to do before going head on. Of course, Sasuke could have thrown all of those techniques at Kabuto but therein lies the problem that Kabuto is very tricky in that domain of being able to escape. The first Amaterasu depends my friend, the eight-tails is a giant target, of course he would have to fire a huge-scale version of Amaterasu on him, Kabuto is very minuscule when compared to the eight-tails. That Blaze Release magatamas, you do realise they take different paths, don't you? not all of them would be aiming for Kabuto, all of these go into different paths unless Sasuke decides to throw them in a single path. Kabuto may of course use the body-replacement technique of Orochimaru which is very chakra-consuming, but you forget that Blaze release/Amaterasu is very chakra-consuming as well, If Sasuke fires a lot of them, I'm sure he'll be extremely tired and he will not always get the target right, there are more times that he will miss due to Kabuto's reflexes and his ability to replace his body. So, I conclude that Sasuke will waste more chakra and dont' forget Kabuto has the ability to passively absorb nature energy while he is moving due to having inherited Juugo's power/cells.
Naruto has fully accepted reality in fact, I'd doubt he'd be trapped. Izanami would work mainly on arrogant persons who don't accept reality such as Madara ( maybe he has a trick to get out of it ), many akatsuki members including Obito. Yes, the former Sasuke would have been part of that group and now he's changed.
Last edited by Rikudobito; January 27, 2014 at 04:30 PM.
I'm always back and forth with this battle. The way Sasuke perform against Madara, I'm leaning towards Itachi. If Sasuke pulls the same stunt that he pulled on Madara, all Itachi has to do is hit him with Tsukuyomi before he can act, by the time Sasuke breaks out he'll have a sword through his chest.
The size of the target doesn't affect the amount of flames that Sasuke can throw at it. Sasuke knowing what he knows means there's little reason he couldn't just decide to cover the field in flames and thus negate any chance of Kabuto forming a new body. The magatama's go where Sasuke wants them to go. That fact is clear given not a single one missed or a spare magatama created shows the control. And Amaterasu/Enton isn't consuming for EMS Sasuke. He has used it and Susanoo numerous times without any sign of weariness or running low on chakra. Even before that, he was capable of using at least six MS techniques on top of his regular techniques before running low on chakra. Not to mention the whole benefit of Enton is that it allows him to employ Amaterasu without having to make it, there by cutting down on the cost of it. A few MS techniques aren't gonna get Sasuke, else he would have ran out of chakra against Kabuto, having used both Amaterasu and Susanoo multiple times in a row.
Nah. Itachi's Tsukuyomi comes with a severe side effect (intense migraines and fatigue). If Sasuke were to break out of Tsukuyomi, the same thing would happen as the last time it happened: Itachi'd suffer the world's most gnarly ice cream headache while falling to his knee to catch a breather. And this was back when Sasuke didn't have MS, let alone EMS. His doujutsu is on another level now.Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke
I swear, unless that Totsuka is especially effective against Sasuke's Susanoo, there is no fight here.
No, Itachi was ill at that time and his eyesight was deteriorated due to the usage of his Mangekyou Sharingan prowesses, that's more than just holding back to me, he was likely at 30-40% of his own power. Of course Konoha didn't know his full power, not only because he left at an early age but also because he probably didn't master his MS abilities at that time.
No, you don't understand what I was trying to mean, Sasuke can freely control the amount of flames he uwants to throw at his opponent. Like against the Eight-tails/Bee he had to resort a large-scale version of Amaterasu, would he have used it on a regular-sized human? No ...as proof when he used it on the Raikage it wasn't as big as when he used it on the Eight-tails. He made the flames that big so that it could completely cover the beast. If you're talking about the Zetsus, they're fodder lol. Kabuto has advanced Reflexes and Perceptions in Sage Mode and that's undeniable. But Kabuto has practically shown no signs of fatigue after using Orochimaru's Body-replacement Style technique several times, and not even close to run low on chakra and I shall probably recall to you that Kabuto can passively absorb Senjutsu Chakra while he's moving at the same time, and yeah, that's a trait he obtained from Juugo after assimiliating his abilities using Sakon and Ukon's kekkei genkai. That ability from Juugo has helped him to replenish his Senjutsu chakra, so it's near impossible for him to actually run out of it or even run out of chakra itself.
I see. For me he has accepted it. But you can't really tell, so far, Izanami has been used against arrogant people, who abused on their powers ( as seen in the anime, don't tell me just because it's "anime" that it has no point because the anime staff contacts Kishi before making such episodes ( Izanagi and Izanami ), the slightest error they make, it outright changes the point of the story ). Naruto is not part of those persons, Sasuke as well isn't. That's why Kabuto was suited to be trapped in the loop. Then going by your logic, as Sasuke is not accepting that he's about to die, meaning he's not accepting reality here, does that mean that he re-enters the group of those who are prone to be trapped into the loop?
Last edited by Rikudobito; January 29, 2014 at 04:56 PM.