This is a thread after a long time. The last time I created I thread, it was about how Naruto was getting closer to becoming a Rikudo Sennin. While this is not accomplish yet, I think we are on the right track to seeing it.
Note that from his birth, and due to his childhood problem, Naruto has always been identified to Kurama. In fact, no matter what Naruto does, his feats are always linked to Kurama, both by manga characters and by the readers. This is due to the fact that every time Naruto is driven to a corner or to a dangerous situation, the Kyuubi always shows up. However, are Naruto's feats due to Kurama? Could it be that Kurama's chakra or even sage chakra are merely boosting Naruto's feats? These feats include advanced sensing, emotion sensing, regeneration from deep wound, etc. Of course I don't add recent chakra control or distribution or FRS since these are clearly Naruto's own feats. I could ask the following question:
When an Uchiha is driven to his current limit, he unlocks another feat. What happen when gifted Senju or Uzumaki is driven to his limit? What will happen when a Naruto without Kurama will need to go beyond the limit of his body?
Well, I think a lot of things will happen that will reveal Naruto's hidden power. In this thread, I am interesting about his body, the property of regeneration. Against every odds, I am one of the people who thing regeneration is not from Kyuubi, and I also think this property of his body is just a portion of what his true power is.
To understand this, it is important to know that Naruto's body in base mode does not contain Kyuubi's chakra. Rather, it contains only Naruto's physical energy. It may be argue that Naruto's physical energy has been altered by Kyuubi's chakra, but this would be a proof that Naruto has a special body. The reason is that Kyuubi chakra would actually destroy a normal body or kill the person that absorb ( see Cloud ninja who ate Kyuubi meat). Thus for Naruto to resist that toxic chakra, his body has to heal itself every time the chakra leaks leading to possible immunization.
Here, I try to demonstrate that Kyuubi cannot be the reason Naruto can regenerate.
1. The first time Naruto recover from an injury, and its significance
Naruto's body regenerated from an injury the very first time on his way to the country of wave. It was a light wound from a Kunai.
As it was visible, Kyuubi was not giving chakra to Naruto at this time. I think it was a pure regenerative behavior of the cells of Naruto's own body. However, from the comment made throughout the manga, it seems that this was due to Kyuubi. In any case if, whether Kyuubi played a role or not, Naruto's body has gained the ability to regenerate. In fact, I think it was because Naruto's own cells have the healing property that he was able to tolerate Kyuubi's chakra leaking from the seal. Any normal human being would have died as Raikage stated for the cloud ninja who hate Kyuubi flesh.
2. The Second time Naruto regenerated: A major one
Kabuto explained how he has destroyed anything that can help him recover. This include connection to Kyuubi chakra
Kyuubi losing his life because Naruto is dying
Naruto woke up
First, I know that as long as Kyuubi and Naruto are connected, they can exchange life force. However, here, we can see that only Naruto has his own life force, but he can even regenerate that life force without Kyuubi's help. Moreover, it is worth noting how Naruto heart stopped beating, and how Tsunade had already failed to heal him. Yet, Naruto woke up. This prove that actually, Naruto's cell have the property to reconstruct anything Kabuto destroyed and to restore his life.
3. The third time Naruto regenerate: boost from Kyuubi or what?
Sasuke pierced through Naruto
Next, here, it is clear Kyuubi took over Naruto's body
Then, Naruto healed at very fast pace
The conclusion most people got from this chapter was that Naruto was healed because of Kyuubi. Clearly, it is undeniable that Kyuubi's chakra played a big role in accelerating Naruto's healing. However, wouldn't Naruto healed anyway even if Kyuubi did not put is chakra in. As far as my analysis goes, Kyuubi's chakra was simply a boost in the regeneration process while the regeneration itself is a property of Naruto's body. Even if Kyuubi did not intervene, Naruto would have healed slowly as he did with the Kunai injury or with Kabuto's attack.
I could bring another panel, but these are the major ones.
4. Back to chapter 661 and 662
In 661 and 662, we see that Naruto has his Biju extracted and his dying. From all the analysis I have seen so far, no one mention that Naruto can regenerate on his own. Rather, everyone is convinced that Naruto will die if no healing or chyo technique is applied. However, I disagree with such analysis.
From the above regeneration cases, it is pretty clear that Naruto can regenerate even without Kyuubi's help. In fact, the reason Naruto is able to be Kyuubi's Jinchurki is because his body can resist the caustic effect of Kyuubi's chakra. Interestingly, I noticed that Kishi is moving in the same direction as my analysis, and this is the only direction that will be consistent with everything given about Naruto so far. How is Kishi doing this?
First, Tsunade is out of juice, and cannot heal Naruto. Second, Sakura also ran out of juice, and Naruto's heart stopped. Next, I doubt Sakura will forfeit her life to save Naruto, and I doubt anyone know Chyo's jutsus there. Thus, the only option left is for Naruto to wake up on his own.
5. Some clues on Naruto's future power up
The first clue is the self healing itself that Naruto will achieve without external help. This self healing and recovering from Biju extraction will be a key that will raise question on Naruto's power. The people who will witness this will be Gaara and Sakura. I am confident in this theory because I think neither Gaara, nor Sakura is going to give his life to save Naruto if Naruto cannot save himself - that is he is powerless without Kyuubi. This will not make any sense. In addition, to make Naruto's self healing from biju extraction epic, Kishi has restate something that is common belief:
Here Zetsus reaffirmed that dying from extraction is an absolute rule
While this can be used by some people to say that Naruto will die, it is usually used by writers to establish the legacy of something special - in this case to show that Naruto is beyond common rules. This is consistent with the connection between Naruto and Rikudo, which suggest that things that are normal to other should not apply to Naruto.
The second clue is solely attached to Gaara's actions. Unlike what most people thought, our predictions were correct. That is the main goal of Kyuubi's request to Gaara is not to heal Naruto. Kyuubi himself know already that Naruto can regenerate, and any external help will be for boosting the process. In the following pages, we can see that Gaara main goal is to take Naruto somewhere else.
Gaara state that Naruto has to recover on the way to their destination. This suggests that healing Naruto is not the priority.
Finally, some people think that by sealing Yin Kyuubi, Naruto will wake up. However, this is not true. If Naruto heart has stop and he cannot regenerate on his own, then it is even impossible to seal biju inside him because he is dead, and the biju will die as well, or simply take his body over. Thus, again, Naruto has to wake up before any sealing. Besides, I hope Naruto will not receive Yin without establishing the legacy of his own power.
Conlusion: The rebirth of the SO6P
Well, as I tried to show, Naruto will recover on his own simply because he has his own power that will allow him to recover. After that, Gaara is taking him to some place where he will discover his own power. As for now, the only thing I know is that Kyuubi told Gaara that the fate of the Shinobi alliance depend on his mission. Moreover, I think without a proper new power, it will be impossible for Naruto to beat Madara's army even with Yin Kyuubi.
Thus, the only thing that come logically from this analysis is a rebirth of Rikudo Sennin. As Naruto has no choice but to draw the least bit of his own power, he will awaken the power that was masked by Kyuubi's presence all his life. Note that every time Naruto tried to go beyond his limit, Kyuubi always came out. This time, it will bring out his own power.
Last edited by so6pww; January 24, 2014 at 02:27 PM.
I don't know about the healing, but the overview on the fact that his limit was always overcome with Kurama's presence or his chakra does make sense about us never seeing his own power awakening just like an Uchiha. Even generally, it was never spoken about Senjus or Uzumakis overcoming their limits and unlocking new powers, only the Uchiha. I also believe that now that Naruto is on his own, we might see what e's actually made of. It would be ironic that Kurama actually suppressed his original power.
I read all of what you said thoroughly and I must agree that this is one of the best theories concerning Naruto that I've ever read up to now.
I respect the effort you took in creating this thread and all of your points in this thread were all well-thought of as well.
When you said that even If Naruto is going to "receive" the Yin Kurama and he will die nonetheless because he would be still in a critical state, then I completely agree with this. Spiral Zetsu and the other both said that once Bijuus are extracted from their Jinchuurikis they will die no matter what. Sealing Yin Kurama into Naruto won't help that much IMO though the door is still open for other possibilities but I'm still clinging to this idea that despite getting Yin Kurama, this won't in any way help Naruto's case.
In a nutshell, I completely agree with what you've said. Naruto is an Uzumaki after all despite this not being stated in the manga, I still think that his Uzumaki blood has something to do with his regeneration.
Last edited by Rikudobito; January 24, 2014 at 03:13 PM.
We all know that naruto will surpass hashirama and he'll become the true successor of the sage. And I think naruto will also surpass hashirama as long as the ''body'' is concerned. Naruto's ''body'' will reach the pinnacle of the senju/uzumaki power. So with that, it has alot of sense that naruto can also healed himself via regeneration that came from his uzumaki's amazing life force.
Given what naruto did to shikamaru, I think it's safe to assume that anyone who'll have naruto's chakra will be saved/healed through with naruto's will.
But anyway, if my memory serves me right, kabuto stated that the uzumaki had a unique ability, large amount ot chakra and amazing life force. So with that, naruto will awaken his own unique ability. But I'm kinda hoping it'll like kushina's chakra chains with some add-on ability.
Having the sage's body is a pretty strong power. The sage's two sons were able to fight each other on equal terms and the younger son only had the power of the sage's body, without any bijuu, and he was able to stand on equal ground with the older son who had some sort of rinnegan offshoot, that kishi never really explained. So, there is power in that but he hasn't shown any type of automatic healing like hashirama.
Naruto isn't coming out of this situation on his own. His whole personality is based on guts and hard work but also on the notions of teamwork and help. He will receive some type of help to get him out of this.
As you can see, the only Senju who has been close to being a true inheritor of the younger son is Hashirama, and he can regenerate along with crazy innate Jutsu. Thus, saying that someone is a sage body actually means having such crazy ability.
Here, while you don't care about the meaning of your own argument because you are used to saying thing as response to post like mine, you need to understand something that is clear in the manga:
1. Ginkaku and Kinkaku ate Kyuubi meat and did not die. Rather they got power
2. Some other cloud ninja ate the same meat and died
3. Kyuubi hit Sakura, and because of the chakra, she could not heal the wound even with Kabuto's help
Clearly, the experiment tell us that Kyuubi meat or kyuubi chakra is a deadly poison. Thus those who survive it have to have something that regenerate their cell, and resist against the poison. It also shows that the same poison that kill people cannot be responsible of someone else regeneration.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-440-15/...apter-435.html A Rinnegan aura appeared just behind him, showing that Naruto couldn't move and he was under Pein's control and that Rinnegan aura was reminescent as to how the Juubi saw a Rinnegan silhouette aura behind Naruto http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...30-page-7.html but this time when the Juubi saw the Rinnegan silhouette behind Naruto, he was not influenced by a Rinnegan user, It appeared out of nowhere,like on its own , like it's part of Naruto and the Juubi utlimately saw him as a threat simply because of that and tried to eliminate him by forming the biggest TBB it could without a moment of hesitation. IMO the body of the sage alone, would not make it ( The Juubi ) piss in its pants. My guess is that this mysterious chakra will make its appearance in 20-25 chapters at least.
Last edited by Rikudobito; January 25, 2014 at 04:39 AM.
Agreed, but we don't know what power the younger son used to beat his brother. If it's not Sage Mode, it must be something else.
Guts and hard work definitely won't help him to get out of this one. External help will be a factor in his saving, but I also think he might trigger that Rikudou/Senju potential we haven't seen yet.
I don't know if naruto will awaken his own rinnegan via the nine bijuus chakra, but it's kinda obvious now that naruto had the ''juubi's fruit'' inside of him. It's either will grant him the rinnegan or the same body of rikudou. Yupz, naruto's next power up is the combination of the bijuus chakra. He'll combine that to his own to have an infinite/unlimited amount of senjutsu the same as the very owns juubi's unlimited natural/senjutsu chakra. With that, madara as the juubi's jinchuuriki pose no threat to sage naruto.
1. Rikudo possessed Juubi's power through his mother. (but I doubt it was in terms of bijus)
2. Rikudo beat Juubi, meaning he was a threat to Juubi
Now, There are three element Rikudo used to beat Juubi:
(a) He had his eyes
(b) He had his body
(c) He had power (Shinju's) from his mother
These two groups make your analysis incomplete because Naruto had (b) and (c). In addition, Juubi explicitly saw (a). Why would you root out that part?
Clearly, it would not be by logical reasoning. Rather, you are choosing to root this factor out because you don't want it.
More free asspull powerups for Naruto, eh?
Chakra/body wise, he reaches a limit because without the Kyuubi to help him, Naruto can't heal or get more chakra when he's nearly out. That means no help for Naruto in battles.
Overall, Naruto improves because he's more likely to use his brain to fight rather than fall back on someone else's power. And, the limit that he had with the Kyuubi is overcome, like better chakra control. I can see Naruto doing better without the Kyuubi.
1) Why the Kyuubi cloak did not regenerate or give life force to Shikamaru? Why was he dying until Naruto started to manipulate the chakra with his willpower?
2) Why the medical ninja are healing injuries who have Kyuubi chakra? Shouldn't they heal automatically if the chakra can heal?
3) Why is Shizune tired while having Kyuubi cloak on her?
As you can see, all these prove that the Kyuubi chakra does not heal anyone on its own. The body of the SA shin obi does not react to the Kyuubi chakra at all. Thus, you cannot say that Naruto heal or have stamina because of Kyuubi. It is now very clear from all the facts that Naruto's body have the property to regenerate by itself with any type of chakra. We have seen Naruto healing fast even without Kyuubi mode, and we have seen him healing fast in Kyuubi mode.
The fact that he is the only one who does heal fast show that it is not Kyuubi. Rather, his cell can replicate in presence of any chakra, either his own, or kyuubi's, or Tsunade's, or any other medic Ninja's. This has been proven many time in the leaf hospital.
It's highly unlikely that Naruto is about to reveal a non-Bijuu related power in the upcoming chapters. The Uzumaki clan are known for Fuuinjutsu and their incredible longevity, but longevity isn't the same thing as regenerative ability. Longevity means you have great "staying power" and toughness. For example, you get tired slower than a normal person would, or you can take more damage than another person. Maybe you have a higher pain threshold too, that's possible.
Naruto's healing feats are exclusively thanks to Kurama.
All 3 of these are answered with the simple truth of how Naruto's chakra gifting works: he's not giving the alliance an actual mini-version of Kurama, he's giving them portions of Kurama's chakra that is modified so that their non-jinchuuriki bodies can use it. All they get is a large boost of chakra that they themselves can manipulate. That's it. The chakra is not the reason why Naruto could regenerate. It's the bijuu's innate ability to heal it's self that is shared with Naruto.Originally Posted by sopww
In other words, a jinchuuriki is not just one person with a beast inside them. Both the beast and the host are one. In unison. They are connected. Of the same flesh and blood. Fused, if you will. This is why the Jinchuuriki aquires beast-like physical transformations, because their body is literally physically changed. The jinchuuriki isn't simply healed by the chakra of the bijuu. They share the bijuu's natural regenerative abilities.
Easy. As you said, the Kyuubi chakra does not heal anyone. The thing is, the Kyuubi chakra isn't being controlled by the Kyuubi, so it can't heal unless the user tries to heal himself.Quote:
And how are you countering what I said? I did say the Kyuubi's help, meaning the Kyuubi is the one who healed Naruto every single time. Yes, I can say that Naruto gets healed and has more stamina because of the Kyuubi. If you read the manga, then you'll see that it's the Kyuubi who heals Naruto and gives Naruto its chakra. Naruto's body does not have the property to regenerate by itself, if it did then no one would have said Kyuubi played a part.Quote:
Instead, we have Kakashi, Shizune, Tsunade, and everyone and their mothers telling us Kyuubi is the reason why Naruto heals faster. Proof? Kabuto cut off a chakra path to Naruto's heart solely so Kyuubi's chakra can't get there and heal Naruto's heart. Tsunade had to heal Naruto's heart.
This is Part I during the Sannin battle. That alone proves me so right, that Kyuubi is the only reason why Naruto's heals at an increased rate and has more stamina.
Um, wrong. Very wrong. Know what's the difference between Naruto and the other ninjas that have the Kyuubi's chakra? Naruto has the Kyuubi in him, the very same Kyuubi who controls what it does with its chakra. If the Kyuubi wanted to, it could heal Naruto. if it wanted to, it could hurt Naruto with its potent chakra. All you did was just show that the Kyuubi chakra needs sentient mind to control it, proving that the Kyuubi is a separate entity and not part of Naruto's power.Quote:
It has not. You have been proven wrong many times. I already said why. In any case, Naruto is more epic without the Kyuubi.
How can he fight Madara or sasuke when they both have perfect susanoo? We've been told the only power comparable to that is the power of the bijuu.
How will he rescue the bijuu without some major power boost?
He will need to become stronger than his 'old' self to beat Madara. Fighting obito is testament to that. He will need his 'old' power plus another power up to really beable to stand toe to toe with madara.
As lame as it sounds, because everyone can see it coming a mile away, naruto will probably receive the other half of the kyuubi chakra. Here's why:
1) We all know that tomorrow(in manga time) is naruto's bday and minato/kyuubi have been hinting towards either naruto awakening a power on his bday or being gifted the other half of the kyuubi for his bday.
2) It was stated that the yang half of the kyuubi was too powerful to put into naruto and so minato sealed theyin half into him. By minato giving naruto the yang half, it should give him at least the power he had before, if not more.
This would set him up for his final powerup which would be to absorb all the bijuu and then become the next sage of the six paths.
Plus, its a shounen manga. The whole concept of 'father gives to son so son can eclipse father and surpass previous generations' is practically written in stone.