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Thread: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Again, that was said by two people who probably don't know the depth of power of a true Great Holy Knight. I don't recall it being said his power was held back by a significant degree, much less to a fraction of his total power. We don't know by how much he kept his power in check. That being said, we don't know how Helbram compares to Hendricksen and by how much his bit of power added to Helbram's during their fight. If what he added made Helbram as strong as he was now, then yeah, I'll concede to the fact that he would have beaten Meliodas, but I still stand by what I said, If Helbram truly had the power, he should have had the rank. I'm sure there is a reason he doesn't. I'm willing to admit that I'm possibly wrong and Helbram did indeed have the power comparable of that to a true Great Holy Knight, but as it stands now, I'm assuming he is weaker than them and they have a much more power. I'd just hate to think that the Sins are that much stronger than the Great Holy Knights.

    Thinking about it now, I should clarify. I don't think Helbram matches up to Dreyfus or Hendricksen specifically. He can have the strength expected of a Great Holy Knight, but in comparison to those two, he is weaker.

  2. #17
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    They were feeling his power, I don't see any particular reason for us to think they were wrong on that at least in terms of pure volume of power. Otherwise the assumption would be that they said that with nothing to base that on (in spite of us knowing they can feel power and they just fought alongside and against a great holy knight) which does not make sense. King specifically said helbram could not use his full power while in human form and the difference in power was quite drastic based on what we saw. Helbram went from being easily toyed around by king to toying around with king until king bothered to use more of his power. That, alone with helbram being compared with a great holy knight upon transforming, suggests the difference between the two forms was quite large. The manga has made the point time and time again that the sins are basically the strongest dudes around. Not one of them has ever been beaten in a fair fight just yet and there is a reason for that, in a fair fight they are inhuman monsters fighting against, well, just humans. As far as we know so far meliodas, diane and king at least have been fighting for hundreds of years. Gowther is apparently not human either and odds are he is also ancient. Ban is 40 years old but he does not seem to lag behind the other sins, he actually bested meliodas up until the demonic transformation. I guess escanor and merlin are still up there though... Even in dreyfus' flashback we saw that only the sins were thought to be comparable to zarathras who was supposed to be the strongest by quite a bit. Based on what we have seen anyways there is little reason for us to think that a great holy knight is even a somewhat adequate enemy for at least meliodas and king. Meliodas already blasted a nation along with its holy knights into oblivion. King was stopping wars on his own against nations before chastiefol... chastiefol presumably made him stronger. Gowther has virtually no offensive power and he still managed to take out dreyfus safe for whatever that intruder was. Its not that of a stretch that the other sins are in a similar league (or that diane would beat dreyfus in a fight were she does not take damage from 3 holy knights beforehand).

    Thinking about chastiefol, I wonder what other forms it could have. We saw helbram using the roots of the tree so shouldn't chastiefol have an equivalent to that? There should be a form that can actually transform into roots or vines.... What about the trunk? I am guessing the trunk of the tree has its own properties so there should be a form of it that takes advantage of that.

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    With this latest chapter, there isn't much that I can argue with. I knew the Sins were the strongest knights, but I thought that the Great Holy Knights would be somewhat comparable or a threat of some sort. I'm a bit disappointed that that doesn't seem to be the case.

    I had assumed that Chastiefol was a constructed from the trunk of the tree. I would be surprised if it wasn't and the trunk of the tree had it's own properties unique to itself. I wonder how was Chastiefol constructed. And how did the King of Liones get it?

  4. #19
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Well, the weapon itself was forged from the tree, I can't really say if the exact part from which it was forged actually makes a difference here. The spear itself has never actually been attributed a part of form so it is hard to say... I always thought that if it did represent something it would be the the branches although the trunk of the tree would make sense too. I wonder why the author simply just gives the numbers to each form as he uses them, there are at least 3 forms which don't seem to stand for anything. I am guessing that the pillow is form one as form two is the bear that seems to be made out of the pillow and the spear is form 6 or 7....

  5. #20
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Beatrice's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    I'm guessing Disaster is gonna be something like Oberon and Titania from Shakespeare's a Midnight Summer's Dream.



    Quote Quote:
    Therefore the winds, piping to us in vains,
    As in revenge, have suck'd up from the sea
    Contagious fogs; which falling in the land
    Have every pelting river made so proud
    That they have overborne their continents:
    The ox hath therefore stretch'd his yoke in vain,
    The ploughman lost his sweat, and the green corn
    Hath rotted ere his youth attain'd a beard;
    The fold stands empty in the drowned field,
    And crows are fatted with the murrion flock;
    The nine men's morris is fill'd up with mud,
    And the quaint mazes in the wanton green
    For lack of tread are undistinguishable:
    The human mortals want their winter here;
    No night is now with hymn or carol blest:
    Therefore the moon, the governess of floods,
    Pale in her anger, washes all the air,
    That rheumatic diseases do abound:
    And thorough this distemperature we see
    The seasons alter: hoary-headed frosts
    Far in the fresh lap of the crimson rose,
    And on old Hiems' thin and icy crown
    An odorous chaplet of sweet summer buds
    Is, as in mockery, set: the spring, the summer,
    The childing autumn, angry winter, change
    Their wonted liveries, and the mazed world,
    By their increase, now knows not which is which:
    And this same progeny of evils comes
    From our debate, from our dissension;
    We are their parents and original.
    Note, this is the power of Fairy Royalties in the work.
    It even mentions the Rheumatic Disease.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

  6. #21
    MangaHelper 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Nico Brown's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    King definitely has the best abilities, I wonder how many he really has and just how crazy they're going to get. I assume well see some much stronger ones with the demons coming into play. Maybe hell be able to summon a whole forest soon like Hashirama or something.

  7. #22
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Generally, King already has his crazy gravity powers at play here, then comes Disaster that is 99% sure to have a massively bigger set of abilities than just bringing out the powers of Chastiefol, and then comes Chastiefol itself. He may also have some other powers coming from his (not exactly clear to me because of the wings) heritage.

    Like, do you remember these pages?



    Yeah, that's him bringing up a bar-worth of water with one hand movement - while basically telling Hawk it's a hand-worth compared to an entire lake of power.

    It means this guy is strong. Strong. And while he is told to be weak physically, we still see him get thrown around like a rubber ball and get up with a smile. Also bringing out Barrier while he's being wailed on.

    Spoiler show


    Helbram's fight with him was so difficult because helbram halted Chastiefol and used it against King, and for some reason King doesn't use his powers for anything else than Chastiefol, or maybe some rheumatism.

    Also, Chastiefol is the entire holy tree in my opinion - compressed into a spear. Those trees have seeds, after all. I also think Nakaba already showed it bare here:

    Spoiler show


    It's the red-green plant by his side, mostly covered by text. I don't think it's there randomly, although back then he didn't have it. All the other parts about the picture are alluding to something, though. I wish there was a text-free version.

    I think the more interesting thing is King perpetually hiding his true power or the things we don't know about him but don't make sense.

    Why doesn't he have wings?

    Why doesn't he seem to know about the demons? He obviously can't not know, being the fairy king for at least a thousand years or so, probably since the great war or maybe even before then. And the Fairies took an active part in the war and in the sealing.

    What else doesn't he let on?
    One of my biggest questions is how the hell did they create the Fountain of Youth (Goddess or Fairy technology?) and how exactly did his 200 years in prison go?

    It all makes me really curious.

  8. #23
    Global Moderator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    ^King tanking these attacks must be related to his Spirit. At this point I think it's safe to say that the Sins can only lose against each other if they are not handicapped, with the exception of Dreyfus(i know their power level is supposed to be similar but Hendricksen really pales in comparison to Dreyfus in normal mode).

    Disaster just seems to be an amplifier to me, Cain had rheumatism and he used Disaster to amplify it, I would not say that he has the best ability but he has the most versatile Sacred Treasure.

  9. #24
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    I wonder if it is possible we have not actually seen king use disaster. We know the explanation given by guila, that chastiefol is forged from the fairy tree which has a number of properties which king is able to maximize or use via his ability disaster. Its the slightly unique situation that king uses his ability to enhance his weapon which is slightly unlike that of other sins that do the opposite, use their weapons to enhance their abilities. Anyways, every time king has explained a form of his speak he has generally attributed it to a particular property the sacred tree has. As when he used the shield and he explained that the fairy tree can heal itself over long periods of time. Or when he talks about the bear form being something with the moss of the tree. Perhaps the sunflower mode is simply mimicking the properties of the tree's flowers. Luminosity and sunflower probably capitalize on the sacred tree being, well, a tree and absorbing sunlight for energy. So maybe we have seen king use the different forms of the spear but without really using his own power. And when he actually uses his disaster along with the tree we have the power attacks we have seen up to now along with some other devastating or crippling effect to his enemies. The issue here is that the manga remains ambiguous in regards to this.... In context it would make sense for king to hold back this much. Helbram was supposed to have been as strong as the GHKs and yet king was able to best him after taking a severe beating. If king is capable of that much even without his ability just by using the tree then using his ability should actually provide a massive increase in power. King has been specifically said to be too kind, he naturally would not want to cause that much arbitrary destruction. Anyways, it is entirely probable that king is already using his disaster to transform the spear to begin with. Although it does not seem like there is much disaster going on anyways. Pollen garden in particular would be incompatible with what little we have seen of disaster specifically as it did the exact opposite.

    As far as king's wings, I am not sure if he has any or not but I am pretty sure that him not having them will somehow relate to his full power or something. As in, he only shows his true form and glory and whatnot when he shows his wings. Something similar might be going on with elaine.

  10. #25
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I wonder if it is possible we have not actually seen king use disaster. We know the explanation given by guila, that chastiefol is forged from the fairy tree which has a number of properties which king is able to maximize or use via his ability disaster. Its the slightly unique situation that king uses his ability to enhance his weapon which is slightly unlike that of other sins that do the opposite, use their weapons to enhance their abilities. Anyways, every time king has explained a form of his speak he has generally attributed it to a particular property the sacred tree has. As when he used the shield and he explained that the fairy tree can heal itself over long periods of time. Or when he talks about the bear form being something with the moss of the tree. Perhaps the sunflower mode is simply mimicking the properties of the tree's flowers. Luminosity and sunflower probably capitalize on the sacred tree being, well, a tree and absorbing sunlight for energy. So maybe we have seen king use the different forms of the spear but without really using his own power. And when he actually uses his disaster along with the tree we have the power attacks we have seen up to now along with some other devastating or crippling effect to his enemies. The issue here is that the manga remains ambiguous in regards to this.... In context it would make sense for king to hold back this much. Helbram was supposed to have been as strong as the GHKs and yet king was able to best him after taking a severe beating. If king is capable of that much even without his ability just by using the tree then using his ability should actually provide a massive increase in power. King has been specifically said to be too kind, he naturally would not want to cause that much arbitrary destruction. Anyways, it is entirely probable that king is already using his disaster to transform the spear to begin with. Although it does not seem like there is much disaster going on anyways. Pollen garden in particular would be incompatible with what little we have seen of disaster specifically as it did the exact opposite.

    As far as king's wings, I am not sure if he has any or not but I am pretty sure that him not having them will somehow relate to his full power or something. As in, he only shows his true form and glory and whatnot when he shows his wings. Something similar might be going on with elaine.
    I already know most of that from the thread. But like you've said, Disaster is calamity/catastrophe/collapse/tragedy/woe, and so far, King did not unleash any sort of woe except for the rheumatism part, and instead uses Chastiefol as a regular weapon.

    It makes me wonder if Disaster is a frightening ability that King doesn't use often because, as you've said, he's just too kind to do that. Last time he properly used was perhaps the part with flowers, where he could have activated it to instantly kill/erase memories - and both those things are often considered disasterous.

    He also probably used it while protecting the forest, fighting against the likes of greedy merchants/vicious tribes/other nasty things that Elaine fought, with 100% effectivness.

    In both those instances he had a particular, serious state of mind. During the fighting festival, he was feeling a little cheatish.

    ---

    Also, considering the wings part, I am 100% sure that they're coming out if he is pushed to a certain point, or cured of whathever keeps those wings at bay. And if he's going to get them at all, they'll probably look awesome.

  11. #26
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    I wonder about the number of King's power level. Thinking about it he fought helbram twice and both times helbram had a number of holy knights backing him. As far as the manga has told us the minimum, as in, the weakest a holy knight must be to become a holy knight is a total of 300. The first time helbram fought he had 20 knights with him, that sums up to 6000 and then he also used hendricksen's power. Even with all of that he had trouble with demonized meliodas. He probably does not straight up absorb the bulk of the power that is given to him though, he probably only uses what is given to him. Then we have his second fight with king. When transformed hauser made the point that helbram was comparable to the GHK. Gilthunder was said to have power comparable to the GHK class so we can make the case that anything above 1800 or 1900 is enough to be a GHK class and above that are the sins who have over 3000. Anyways, on his second fight helbram did take the bulk of the HKs power and he had just about 10 of them supporting him. Assuming they were the weakest HKs around that still adds up to at least 3000. Assuming some level of competence from them it could add up to god knows how high. And yet king went and bested helbram in a straight raw power fight with their weapons. So.... kings power is over 9000 or something?

  12. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Spoiler show


    Seriously though? I think it'll be a mix of two things. The obvious being King's state of mind and goal at that moment, meaning that after he completed his goal of protecting Diane, his level dropped to it's "base" state, and it was at the level it was before he went H.A.A.M on Helbram.

    Secondly, I'm pretty sure the author is going to conveniently "forget" Link with the introduction of these power levels. A tiny drop of base Hendricksen's strength put Helbram over the edge when he fought Demon Mel. But later on, we see that Mel is more than a match for Hendricksen one on one in his own base form, so...yeah. It's a bit inconsistent.

  13. #28
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    It wasn't necessarily a tiny drop though. I mean, it probably wasn't a lot of power as far as hendricksen was concerned however being a GHK his power is a number of times greater than your average HK. Hendricksen alone could throw in the power of a couple HKs while it being only a small portion of his true power. Presumably hendricksen and dreyfus were somewhere between the level of gilthunder, 1900, and the sins, 3000. He could throw in 800 which is over two HKs on his own and it still would not be even half of his power while being significant in regards to the other HKs there.

  14. #29
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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Link is probably what makes of Helbram a fighter of the GHK class. With Link he can probably absorb only Magic and Strength, not Spirit. Their confrontation was purely magical, it's likely that the stats of the Knights where weak in the Magic category, King must be comfortably above him in Spirit too.

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    Re: King's abilities, Disaster and Chastiefol

    Let's also not forget Meliodas's mindset during the entire kingdom infiltration arc:

    Spoiler show

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